You make some decent points, the situation is extraordinarily odd. Although it is possible that Patreus is overconfident in his abilities due to the successful debt collection efforts with his private fleet, and wanted to hasten the process thinking he would be able to take over the Empire.
To some of my fellow imperial Commanders, what's wrong with you??
- Thread starter Cmdr Lassan
- Start date
You make some decent points, the situation is extraordinarily odd. Although it is possible that Patreus is overconfident in his abilities due to the successful debt collection efforts with his private fleet, and wanted to hasten the process thinking he would be able to take over the Empire.
This I admit. It is a possibility. But it just seems incredibly unlikely. Oh, I think the Senator has ambitions to become Emperor, sure. But I just don't think he would be that stupid to tip his hand so early, especially when Hengist's on his last legs anyway and failure and exposure would be utterly disastrous for him. My spidey sense is tingling. If I were in Arissa's position, I would totally try to set up a rival in this way, and think myself very clever for doing so - I get to play the wronged daughter, and such accusations would so utterly destroy my rival that I would be in a much stronger position.
(OOC - I actually wonder if this is what they're going for. Keep reading the GalNet, people! We may soon discover footage of a secretive meeting between Chancellor Blaine and ISS!)
Commanders!
I'll fight in Quivira for Patreus as long as there is not evidence of him being a traitor!
If evidence show up for his treason I will do everything I can to destroy him and everybody on his side.
But for now there is no evidence and I will fight for the Empire and the Emperor.
All hail the Emperor, bask in his glory!
Commander Dismoor
Baron of the Empire
I'll fight in Quivira for Patreus as long as there is not evidence of him being a traitor!
If evidence show up for his treason I will do everything I can to destroy him and everybody on his side.
But for now there is no evidence and I will fight for the Empire and the Emperor.
All hail the Emperor, bask in his glory!
Commander Dismoor
Baron of the Empire
Fighting for the independents, because as much as you guys spout on about how imperial slavery is "voluntary," taking advantage of a system in debt by raising the fees, adding a really short deadline, then coming in and taking over by force and enslaving the population to pay off the debt that was raised for that very purpose is the opposite of voluntary. You guys need to reform your laws regarding loans or something, because that's downright despicable. Down with Patreus!
Pretty sure they meant the whole getting sick before the wedding and nearly dying was the result of the assassination attempt, not an attempt on the Emperor in his weakened state.
Anyway, regardless, if HIM the Emperor dies, Arissa remains an illegitimate scion, Aisling still has a claim through he father, she has been seen with Senator Patreus who has previous had the backing on Senator Torval "Afterall don't we all have a little Duval Blood in Us" along with Senator Patreus' own statement that the Emperor should be the right man for the job, not just the one with the right blood.
Aisling collect slaves and "frees" them and out of "gratitude" they devote their lives so her, so they stay indentured servants, just indentured for a different reason, c.f freedmen owing labour to Romans who freed them from the bondage of slavery, so her anti slavery platform isnt such a radical reformist stance as once would think, the whole rivalry with Torval might just be for show, Torvals factions in the descriptions are hedonistic decedents, so likely happen to just keep doing what they do undisturbed, leaving the way for Aisling and Patreus to be the new Power couple and rule the Empire, with Patreus maybe even claiming Jure Uxoris and bam he is Emperor.
Greetings Cmdr Lassan, It seems you are at odds with yourself and are trying the best you can to make sense of the situation. Simply know that corporate interests are not necessarily Empire interests. I’m certain many others have fallen for this ruse but let’s be clear. Fighting for, Senator Denton Patreus, in this case is not fighting for the Empire but a corporate mogul. No citizen of the Empire should feel the least bit compelled to join this fight for Empire honor or glory. It is what it is…A simple contract disagreement. That said… anyone from the Empire choosing a side with Senator Denton Patreus is a corporate mercenary and not to be considered solely on the basis of their status in the Empire but on their allegiance to fight for a corporate entity. Quivira has been a stable independent system which had caused no alarm to anyone until a corporate entity chose to disrupt that peace.I sincerely hope you can come to understand the subtle differences in the politics at hand and not judge others too quickly.Best regards.*if anyone can help me to better format posts in this forum I'd appreciate it. Whenever I preview it just turns into a run on paragraph. )
Thanks for your contribution Cmdr,
But the thing i try to see here is the bigger picture. As i mentionend, i do not trust or follow Patreus. Nonetheless, to give the Feds an allied stronghold in the heart of empire space Is a disturbing thought. Sometimes you can't live out inner struggle openly . I just stated that we may not show weekness in times of confusion. Our enemys observe us thoroughly and we're just showing weekness the last weeks. To not participate in the fight on Patreus' side is one thing. We need our combat ships, miners and traders to be scattered throughout the Empire. BUT actively fighting against Patreus, at this stage is absolut treason. I saw Empire Cmdrs fighting against Patreus. For me that's treason and to be punished, at least with inprisonment untill dust settles
Thanks for your open minded and truly not false words
Fly safe
Let's stand together
Last edited:
\
Treason is to act against the Emperor.
I don't believe Patreus is the Emperor.
You say you don't trust or follow him, so no need to confuse him for the Empire or the Senate as a whole, he is but one Senator, his person may be sacrosanct but his private ventures beyond the boarder of the Empire are not.
And as NXS Tripp pointed out this isn't an Imperial action sanctioned by the Imperial Senate but a private venture our side the legal jurisdiction of the Empire.
It isn't a war but a civil war between Quiviran entities, of which one has a financial connect to an imperial Senator.
Last edited:
Why would Arissa kill the emperor, she needs him to marry her mother to get a locked down line to the throne.
Whereas Aisling and Petreus need him dead as Aisling's father was exocommunicated.
If you find the Federation's interest in Quivira to be disturbing, you only feel the same way as many in the Federation do about Liaedin.
Suppose you're correct in assuming the Federation wants to turn Quivira into a stronghold in Imperial space, it seems to me that it would only be an example of quid pro quo - Quivira in exchange for Liaedin. The recent attempt by certain members of the Faveol family to attack Volungu, misguided though it was, seems to reflect a growing sentiment in the Empire, particularly those followers of Denton Patreus: that one can act with impunity, running roughshod over whatever and whoever they wish, in the pursuit of dominance in our small corner of the galaxy. Liaedin is fortunate that the Federation has not decided to launch a counterattack and strip the Faveols of their control. Federal leadership has shown great restraint and understanding in that regard. But there are consequences, and Quivira would be the proverbial pound of flesh in retaliation for the "accidental" incursion into Volungu.
Moreover, it is not the fault of the Federation that Patreus has inadvertently presented them with the opportunity to capitalize on his use of cruel and unusual means to collect his dues. If Quivira becomes a Federation-controlled system, the Empire has only one person to blame: Denton Patreus.
That's how I see things.
(OOC: Hope I got all of that right...)
I didn't say she would want to kill the Emperor. That would make no sense. I said it would be in her interests to FAKE an assassination attempt on her father, in order to curry sympathy and set up a rival to take the fall.
Unfortunately you're incorrect. The attempt took place on 1st April and the Emperor had been ailing for months and in a coma since January.
GalNet 01 Apr 3301 said:
Yes, if the Emperor dies Arissa remains technically illegitimate but it makes little difference. Many Imperials already consider her the rightful heir. An informal tallying of those who've declared their support tells me that just under one quarter are openly for Patreus, fully a HALF are for Arissa, and the rest are either undecided or at least refuse to move against the Senator until he is declared an enemy of the state.
Of course Patreus wants to be Emperor. That seems obvious to me. Who wouldn't want the ultimate power? And why should it be a member of the Duval line? It should be a Duval just because? That doesn't seem like a very good reason to me. Didn't Henson Duval seize the throne and then warp Marlin Duval's original vision of the Empire as a force for peace? What has Hengist ever done for the Empire? Chancellor Blaine himself has said that the government is run by the Senate and that Hengist hasn't gotten involved for years. At best Hengist has been a deadweight - at worst a millstone of regression around the Empire's neck. Harold is obviously not fit for the job, and Aisling totally lacks the necessary intelligence or skill to be a competent leader. Her taking up of the Stop Slavery cause is patently her attempt to hitch on to a trendy issue and find an angle which makes her stand out from the other candidates. Of all the blood candidates, Arissa seems to be the only one with a modicum of sense and leadership talent about her - but if Patreus can be a better leader, why not? Let him have Aisling as Irulan to his Paul if he wants.
I say give all candidates for the throne a fair hearing, and then let them prove themselves. If they can win out over their rivals, if they prove they have the strategic mind and the ability to succeed, let them rule the Empire. The Empire needs a strong leader. The strongest will be found, one way or another.
But the 'alleged assassination attempt' failed and the only evidence we have of the attempt are the reports from Arissa and Chancellor Blaine. It allowed Arissa to appear regal and give the impression that she is the legitimate heir, while casting suspicion on rivals. It also gave the impression that the emperor had been well on the road to recovery before the setback of the assassination attempt, which may have been used to cover the real state of health of the emperor. It all happened conveniently quickly after Patreus started pushing the senate to find out the real state of the emperor's health.
Goose4291
Banned
Worth noting that Aisling is also an illegitimate scion of Harold Duval, which is why Arissa's claim is stronger out of the two (Her illegitimacy extends from the Emperor himself rather than a disinherited heir).
Last edited:
You forgot Princess Aisling Duval, who has the support of many average Imperial citizens and a large group of Commanders.
Lacks the intelligence or skill to be a competent leader? She's incredibly good at rallying support and using the media to her advantage. That is a skill in manipulation that you should not underestimate. And at the end of the day, leadership is about manipulation.
I mean, she has the gall to be anti-drug and anti-slavery, in the empire, and is still considered a contender and has signficant support. That alone makes her not worthy of simply being dismissed.
Last edited:
I haven't forgotten her... I just think Aisling lacks the wit to think her way out of a paper bag.
She is not the consummate politician, and it's obvious that many others range ahead of her on that point. She's fighting her bid for the crown using only what she's got and what she knows - her celebrity star power. And kudos to her for that, I grant you. I just don't think it's enough. She does not come across as particularly bright in... well, frankly, anywhere she's been quoted... and aside from using social power to evoke sympathy she does not seem to have any real strategy, or plans for the Empire. Her support of the anti-slavery movement feels false - much like the celebrities of ancient Earth adopting poor orphan babies without any real regard or care - it feels like it's just a cause to make her look good and give her a platform on an issue that distinguishes her from her rivals. I get the impression that she only wants the throne because she loves her privileged lifestyle and she feels that it has always been hers and therefore it SHOULD be hers - not that she has any idea what to do with such power or that she has any cares or plans for the future of the Empire.
Last edited:
Family names can mean a lot to the traditionalists
Aisling is a Duval
Arrisa isn't, even though she had her name hyphenated a few time in a few of the Gal-Net articles
And Harald being disinherited makes him "dead" in terms of succession law, to the Imperial Throne would still act as if it passed from Hengist to Harald then immediately to his successor, and children come before siblings in Primogeniture* so if the illegitimates can inherit Aisling comes before her aunt Arrisa.
If Hengist had married Arrisa's mother and thus legitimized Arrisa, then she moves up the line of succession, but until then, she is 2nd in line.
- - - Updated - - -
Okay, I misunderstood the news on the assassination.
My position on the line of succession still stands however, Aisling comes before Arrisa if the marriage does not go a head.
* in the previous games the Empire was presented as Salic absolute agnatic primogenture, with females and sons of Imperial Daughters having no claim, so this new situation is all rather different, but explains where the Cadet lines of the Duval family with different surnames comes from.
Last edited:
You dont want a man like Patreus to be Emperor.
He is too polarizing, and an Empire divided is an Empire lost.
You want your Emperor to be a great states person, above petty politics, who represents all those qualities that makes the Empire seem like it is the just the best parts of the empire, a person who engenders and instill loyalty and zeal toward the Empire as an entity, and someone who embodies it.
Senator Patreus would be better placed aiming to be the Princeps Senatus to assert his control over the Senate and build his power base there, if you were a support of Senator Patreus having him control the government not the state ought to be your aim.
Goose4291
Banned
I'm Curious, where are you getting that from? The only tidbit I can find from Frontier and First Encounters is the following from the Gazetteer (which due to the current situation has clearly been retconned).
Question, if I may. Would you say the defining principle of the Empire, the core value that is the MOST important to you, that you are most loyal to... is it loyalty to the rightful Duval Emperor/Empress, or is it to the ideal of a prosperous and progressive Empire?
No idea now, it might have been fan fiction, but something about the females being removed from the line and the children being tank births close to but not completely clones, right down the Duval male pattern baldness being an Imperial trait (I think a nod to the Hapsburgs)
Might not have been retconned per se, as Hengist is presented as rejecting anything unnatural
- - - Updated - - -
Trick question as you present those options as a disjunction
The defining principles of the Empire are, no doubt, an emulation of the Roman ideals.
Honour in the Roman sense of having face, the constant struggle to maintain face, to maintain ones dignitas, to pursue virtue, a respect of the mores maiorum, to be the active force in one's own fate, not a passive object but the active agent, to be a loyal and active member working towards the good of the state.
That is why selling ones self into Imperial Slavery is a honourable action, that one is taking control and choosing your fate rather than falling passively into debt and the involuntary control of others.
"Progressive" is the watchword of those who would abandon tradition for personal gain
Let the Senate worry about how to make the Empire greater tomorrow than it is today, let the Emperor be a reminder of what we did yesterday that makes us great today.
The Best Senator can be wasted as Emperor, just as the greatest of Emperors sullied by doing the work of the Legislator
Last edited: