Total removal of PvP would have no overall detrimental effect to the game. Pilots federation rules of engagement idea

[Robert Maynard]

Yep, some people make different or extended arguments that I dont think stack up. Tends to be most of the opposition to OpenOnly/variant Powerplay suggestions comes from people who have no interest in Powerplay either way, but do have concerns about a slippery slope. While you may think it would be a thin-end-of-the-wedge, its more likely to provide a visible home for people who feel that way. More a lightning-rod than a slippery slope. Hopefully that's enough metaphors for one post

Plenty.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

^^^

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

Bgs by pvp is like throwing a hotdog down a hallway.

 

[Angelpichu]

I'd be rather upset if I was unable to participate in the BGS in a future update because I don't want to play in Open. BGS is a nice asynchronous multiplayer thing, allowing people to try to promote a faction regardless of playstyle (and allow other players to push back, regardless of playstyle) and every time someone recommends BGS being restricted to open, I'm worried this is the time it's going to happen.

 

[Stelar 7]

So the idea is to remove the optionalness of the pvp so that it's now required to opt in for certain game loops, brilliant, it will fail.

Seriously, if your "solution" to pvp is to try and make the people who don't want to, have to anyway, you have utterly failed at understanding fdev's vision for pvp.

Its optional on purpose.

 

[Bashy81]

So the idea is to remove the optionalness of the pvp so that it's now required to opt in for certain game loops, brilliant, it will fail.

Seriously, if your "solution" to pvp is to try and make the people who don't want to, have to anyway, you have utterly failed at understanding fdev's vision for pvp.

Its optional on purpose.

Powerplay is fundamentally about consensual player versus player conflict. We think that pretty much all of the systems and rules would benefit from being played out in Open only, as it would dramatically increase the chance of meeting other pledged players and being able to directly affect the outcomes of power struggles.

 

[Brrokk]

I think there should be an actual PvP feature. I'm also convinced by the arguments that PP might have been so intended and with a few tweaks could be made into one.

I almost support the idea, but every time it begins to gain acceptance someone ups and says, "Wait, it's not enough, we'll need the BGS as well".

To me that shows two things: fundamental misunderstanding of the BGS, and a "Trojan horse" side to the requests for OOPP. That's when I stop supporting the idea again.

 

[Bashy81]

I think there should be an actual PvP feature. I'm also convinced by the arguments that PP might have been so intended and with a few tweaks could be made into one.

I almost support the idea, but every time it begins to gain acceptance someone ups and says, "Wait, it's not enough, we'll need the BGS as well".

To me that shows two things: fundamental misunderstanding of the BGS, and a "Trojan horse" side to the requests for OOPP. That's when I stop supporting the idea again.

Its the slippery slope concern, the Thin End of the Wedge, a Trojan Horse..

Understandable, but its really polarising & stupifying the debates when people tarnish the nuanced issues, by association with the banal demands of an entitled minority who want everything their way. Someone pops up with a 'BGS too' comment in a Powerplay discussion and the slippery slope says "ah-hah! knew it, it was a sneaky Greek trick all along, and they wouldve got away with it too if it wasnt for us noble Hotel Californinans".

At least when the situation is reversed and a BGS - Open discussion comes along, im consistent in calling for Powerplay OpenOnly - Only. Sorry Open BGSers (which is also the majority of my time spent too via Powerplay tbf) but for the overall benefit of the game at-large I think there should be a place for meaningful PvP that can directly affect sim outcomes through effective disruption. Powerplay is clearly the most suitable place for that, it is also widely unpopular as it stands now, so its an easy win to provide a popular wish for many players: PvP with a purpose.
The main benefit to gameplay for me however, is the added layers of tactical and strategic consideration as a result of the assessed likelihood of disruption. It creates an added guessing-game and moves & countermoves that give simplistic mechanics the complexity and spice they so badly need. Tastes of it versus groups with an Open-ethos have been among the best multiplayer experiences ive had in over 20years of online gaming.
There should be a place in game for that to flourish, but (regards the entire BGS ) should that desire be allowed to trample over every other gamestyle that wants to see their actions have effects & not get into teamwork or PvP to achieve it?
Hell no, imo.

 

[Stelar 7]

Powerplay is fundamentally about consensual player versus player conflict. We think that pretty much all of the systems and rules would benefit from being played out in Open only, as it would dramatically increase the chance of meeting other pledged players and being able to directly affect the outcomes of power struggles.

I disagree. All BGS impacting features involve player confluct, but conflict includes you and I disagreeing on the forums.

Ship to ship combat is a feature that all parties have to opt into. That is baked into the game design and the devs show no interest in offering up those who don't want to participate in it to those who do.

Connect with other pvp combat players and organize if you are lonely. Most folks reject ship combat as an activity they want to do with players. Trying to push them to have to isn't going to make it more popular.

 

[Bashy81]

I disagree. All BGS impacting features involve player confluct, but conflict includes you and I disagreeing on the forums.

Ship to ship combat is a feature that all parties have to opt into. That is baked into the game design and the devs show no interest in offering up those who don't want to participate in it to those who do.

Connect with other pvp combat players and organize if you are lonely. Most folks reject ship combat as an activity they want to do with players. Trying to push them to have to isn't going to make it more popular.

I should have included a citation but, bait, whatever. My post was in italics because it was a verbatim quote from the Elite Dangerous Lead Designer of the time, speaking on behalf of the devs. See link below..

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/

Ship to ship combat is a feature that all parties have to opt into. That is baked into the game design and the devs show no interest in offering up those who don't want to participate in it to those who do.

Most folks reject ship combat as an activity they want to do with players. Trying to push them to have to isn't going to make it more popular.

I agree. And yet the devs suggested Open-Only Powerplay as a genuine proposition. The logical conclusion is that Open-Only Powerplay isn't intended to force players into PvP who never want to participate in it. It is intended to provide a theatre to participate for people who do want PvP to be a relevant factor with some strategic consequence, as at the moment it is nothing more than a dalliance.

There is a significant cohort of players who want meaningful PvP. Powerplay is a good venue for that as it is widely unpopular in its present incarnation. I would contend that is partly because it has never had a chance to flourish in the Open mode it is most suitable for, because at any point the opposition can drop into solo/PG as it suits them, and render any emergent coordination a complete waste of effort.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

we dont need balancing in pvp untill the game is designed to make all to feel like invicible and immortal (i forgot the last time i explode on my ship against an npc..probably was 2015)

 

[Iron Golem]

The open anything is pointless debate as long as people can block anyone out of instancing.

It just wasn't in the foundation and its rather sad. Private servers or Elite - Elite should give players "realm" options.

Open only power play would be nice if it couldn't be circumvented with block. Just a mute substitution would suffice for harassment and maintain the purity of the mode. Would also benefit from centralized servers instead of luck of the draw instancing.

 

[Darth Ender]

blah blah blah open vs solo etc.

Most of your "open only" people wouldn't care about solo and group for nearly any of the things they talk about if the PVE gameplay was challenging and balanced for the rewards provided for the activities given in relation to their perceived increase in challenge when you have a high likelihood of coming up against human opposition.

Improve PVE risk and the associated balance and you effectively eliminate this discussion without changing the modes the game uses at all.

 

[Stelar 7]

I should have included a citation but, bait, whatever. My post was in italics because it was a verbatim quote from the Elite Dangerous Lead Designer of the time, speaking on behalf of the devs. See link below..

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/

I agree. And yet the devs suggested Open-Only Powerplay as a genuine proposition. The logical conclusion is that Open-Only Powerplay isn't intended to force players into PvP who never want to participate in it. It is intended to provide a theatre to participate for people who do want PvP to be a relevant factor with some strategic consequence, as at the moment it is nothing more than a dalliance.

There is a significant cohort of players who want meaningful PvP. Powerplay is a good venue for that as it is widely unpopular in its present incarnation. I would contend that is partly because it has never had a chance to flourish in the Open mode it is most suitable for, because at any point the opposition can drop into solo/PG as it suits them, and render any emergent coordination a complete waste of effort.

I'm aware of the quote and I hold that they seem to have quietly changed their minds.

Folks imagining pvp for powerplay are delusional in my book. 1. It puts a significant advantage to folks with bad connection or who play at atypical hours for their region. 2. While many want more pvp many more seem to want nothing to do with it. 3. If the pvp community wants to get more pew nothing at all is preventing them from organizing and having at. Yet this doesn't happen. 4. Pre-built pvp like the Arena remain almost totally unused. So even when they get a tool it goes unused.

However the ships that participate in powerplay are not set for meta pvp, in fact most are defenseless haulers.

So I'm left feeling like more people really wish they could gank haulers and are sad that the space truckers aren't willing to get yanked.

So take turns being the haulers. Set a ship type and a route and a reward for successfully getting from a to b in Open, hell that'd probably be awesome on Twitch.

Far more likely than game molded to push players into pvp ship combat.

 

[Artistik]

Solo/PG influence reduced

Sorry, you had me until this moment. It annoys me when people think making the game less enjoyable for others is a good idea. Some people just don't like PvP. Stop trying to make it a near necessity.

 

[Madrax573]

Sorry, you had me until this moment. It annoys me when people think making the game less enjoyable for others is a good idea. Some people just don't like PvP. Stop trying to make it a near necessity.

Well if you had read the thread further you would have seen that I clarified that it was a personal preference and to keep in the current state of play you could just ignore this statement...

 

[iSteel]

How about having a high level NPC support depending on the security level if you are flying yourself. And the level of the escort would depend on the security level of the system.

I.e. when arriving to system you would be automatically escorted by system security who would immediately protect you of any assailant giving you some chance to escape or ready for battle.

This would not be free though, some cut from the cargo sales or such. And only when flying solo with legal mission/cargo. And if you choose to do criminal act while escorted the escort would try to stop you. PP and other war like activities would opt out the support automatically.

There would be some cost for the escort at every arrival to system. And you could opt out from the service in the ship options.

Would not take away anything from others and would give some options for those who want to fly safer.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

I'm aware of the quote and I hold that they seem to have quietly changed their minds.

Folks imagining pvp for powerplay are delusional in my book. 1. It puts a significant advantage to folks with bad connection or who play at atypical hours for their region. 2. While many want more pvp many more seem to want nothing to do with it. 3. If the pvp community wants to get more pew nothing at all is preventing them from organizing and having at. Yet this doesn't happen. 4. Pre-built pvp like the Arena remain almost totally unused. So even when they get a tool it goes unused.

However the ships that participate in powerplay are not set for meta pvp, in fact most are defenseless haulers.

So I'm left feeling like more people really wish they could gank haulers and are sad that the space truckers aren't willing to get yanked.

So take turns being the haulers. Set a ship type and a route and a reward for successfully getting from a to b in Open, hell that'd probably be awesome on Twitch.

Far more likely than game molded to push players into pvp ship combat.

This is pretty blinkered view imo.
Arena gets no love because its total trash, using arcadey ships and gimmicks not found in the real game.

As for OOPP, well to be brutally honest I've never met a highly skilled pvp'r who gave the first flying f about powerplay.

Those that want more pvp do organize it, quite regularly in fact but without any assistance, mechanic or even acknowledgment in game from FD.

Despite the pvp community encompassing the most skilled and knowledgeable players ever to play the game.

Some folk just like to blow stuff up. If thats some rando pve dude, so what!
Space pixels are very cheap nowdays regardless of what the average neckbeard says.

 

[Bashy81]

I'm aware of the quote and I hold that they seem to have quietly changed their minds.

You may prefer that to be true but there is nothing to support it. Its a bit of a stretch to infer 3 years of Powerplay development not making the cut = a complete reversal of their stated opinion.

Folks imagining pvp for powerplay are delusional in my book. 1. It puts a significant advantage to folks with bad connection or who play at atypical hours for their region.

The worst connection in my playergroup is from an Aussie who lives in the Outback and plays on a mobile-tether. He is on my friends-list. That we can instance at all still boggles my mind. That we instance reliably is stupifying. Just goes to show that upping the instancing priority for Powerplay is an effective solution, and is something that can be tweaked.

2. While many want more pvp many more seem to want nothing to do with it.

whatever the proportions are, those that seem to want nothing to do with PvP have the whole rest of the game to play with, and an innate advantage in the BGS & Powerplay. I think, and last we heard the devs agreed, Powerplay should be the venue that provides an exception.

3. If the pvp community wants to get more pew nothing at all is preventing them from organizing and having at. Yet this doesn't happen. 4. Pre-built pvp like the Arena remain almost totally unused. So even when they get a tool it goes unused.

People who want arranged scrims and matches do this.

To me and many others, this seems pointless and artificial compared to a strategic conflict played out as a real-time/turn-based hybrid.

Its like a Total War game compared to deathmatch. You miss out on the whole campaign if u just pick your loadouts, loser is the first one to die.
Some people want that, but there is so much more nuance in a Powerplay conflict, if its given a chance to develop.

However the ships that participate in powerplay are not set for meta pvp, in fact most are defenseless haulers.

So I'm left feeling like more people really wish they could gank haulers and are sad that the space truckers aren't willing to get yanked.

So take turns being the haulers. Set a ship type and a route and a reward for successfully getting from a to b in Open, hell that'd probably be awesome on Twitch.

Far more likely than game molded to push players into pvp ship combat.

This is the weird thing about forum Powerplay discussions. Most Powerplayers dont make that distinction. You get some fringe haulers, fringe explorers, fringe BGSers and fringe PvPers but most players do whats needed at the time.

You dont keep your rating bonuses via PvP, that takes hauling or undermining & either way youre spending a lot of time in non-PvP ships.

If im hauling dissidents & get jumped by a wing in my Power's HQ, why didnt we have a top-cover wing up to contest that space? I was doing my job foritifying, why wernt they doing theirs ? Besides which its just embarrassing having an enemy wing roaming at will all over our HQ. That's the dynamic at play, not some 'haulers getting ganked' narrative.

 

[Brrokk]

I'm aware of the quote and I hold that they seem to have quietly changed their minds.

Folks imagining pvp for powerplay are delusional in my book. 1. It puts a significant advantage to folks with bad connection or who play at atypical hours for their region. 2. While many want more pvp many more seem to want nothing to do with it. 3. If the pvp community wants to get more pew nothing at all is preventing them from organizing and having at. Yet this doesn't happen. 4. Pre-built pvp like the Arena remain almost totally unused. So even when they get a tool it goes unused.

However the ships that participate in powerplay are not set for meta pvp, in fact most are defenseless haulers.

So I'm left feeling like more people really wish they could gank haulers and are sad that the space truckers aren't willing to get yanked.

So take turns being the haulers. Set a ship type and a route and a reward for successfully getting from a to b in Open, hell that'd probably be awesome on Twitch.

Far more likely than game molded to push players into pvp ship combat.

What, a player group organise the kind of gameplay they want? What a brilliant idea!