Trade Logging?

[Iskariot]

I fly a bigger ship (Python) for trading. When I push the Launch button, I simultaneous switch to the Galaxy map to select my target system. By the time I've returned from the Galaxy map, the clamps are released and I'm able to take off. So, there is no time savings for the lift for me. From take off until starting to charge for hyperspace takes about 20s. Time to log out and log back in takes about 30s. Perhaps the OP is a really slow pilot.

That is how I do things too. I just use my time smartly. Going up or down an elevator is never wasted time for me.
And what is more it is an essential part of the experience for me.
Logging out of the game and logging in again, would just mutilate the game for me. It is almost sacrilege.

Which generation is the one that thinks this is "bad"? I was born in the early 70s, been writing code all my life. I see how the program works and the optimal path to a result. That's all.

Then overt cheating is even more optimal, or is that where you draw the line?
To me this is such a weird and incomprehensible way of playing a game.
But play the game the way you want.

I also press space to bypass the loading title sequence.

I fail to see what that has to do with it. I don't think it is a sensible comparison.

 

[Carro]

I also press space to bypass the loading title sequence.

Good god, man! You should be banned!

 

[Dhan]

WHAT they do may be wrong.

But WHY they do it is the same as any min/max gamer.

Some people are happy only needing to put in 33% of the effort as the mix/max type but still get 80+% of a game's goodies, scenarios, stats, whatever

While others, min/maxers, will put in enormous effort to wring the last 3% out of whatever they are trying to max or achieve

The only answer that makes it sad or not sad (other than whether it is bannable or not) - is whether the person truly enjoys the effort vs. reward.

If they do, then I don't find it sad at all - entertainment is in the eye of the beholder.
If they don't, then yes it is sad.

Yeah and combat loggers maximize their time alive and minimize their time dead. Depends how you look at it I guess.

 

[Morbad]

Lol, calling this an exploit is just ridiculous.

Using an unintended or buggy feature to give one's self an advantage is the very definition of exploit in the context being discussed.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that people even play games this way.

You don't need to.

You should still be able to recognize that that any advantage gained by moving your ship from one location to another with relogging faster than it would be able to move if you were piloting it is an exploit.

I also press space to bypass the loading title sequence.

What does that have to do with anything? The loading sequence isn't something your ship or pilot experience.

 

[Carro]

What does that have to do with anything? The loading sequence isn't something your ship or pilot experience.

You really do need to work on that lack of a sense of humour, don't you?

 

[Samosa]

Then overt cheating is even more optimal, or is that where you draw the line?
To me this is such a weird and incomprehensible way of playing a game.

I draw the line when I'm bothering someone else. Any proof whatsoever that this action is in any way noticeable or an inconvenience to others and that's that. I don't think it makes a difference. I don't think it affects the background sim, nor does it bump me up a "ladder" - no such thing exists.

I fail to see what that has to do with it. I don't think it is a sensible comparison.

Of course I was being a bit facetious, but honestly - I'm as happy with relaxing and taking things easy as the next man, but once you've seen a sequence or performed an action a few thousand times, expecting me to be "immersed" is a little presumptuous, you know? To each their own.

 

[Iskariot]

You don't need to.
You should still be able to recognize that that any advantage gained by moving your ship from one location to another with relogging faster than it would be able to move if you were piloting it is an exploit.

Yes, I can't argue against that.

- - - Updated - - -

I draw the line when I'm bothering someone else. Any proof whatsoever that this action is in any way noticeable or an inconvenience to others and that's that. I don't think it makes a difference. I don't think it affects the background sim, nor does it bump me up a "ladder" - no such thing exists.

Aah, so cheating is not off the table then?
Well, fine by me.
Not wanting to bother someone else is a good line to draw.

 

[Faybs]

Man, this reminds me of the thread a month ago with people agonizing over taking an extra 5s to fuel scoop.

My own opinion of this is that since it's highly unlikely to interfere with anyone else's enjoyment of the game, there's no harm in it. Disclosure: I once "trade logged" when after an update my binds changed. As my out of control Python bounced around inside the station while the obliteration timer counted down, I put full pips to SYS, selected "save and exit" and prayed real hard... luckily when I logged back in I still had most of my hull so I was able to fix my binds and go back in.

 

[Iskariot]

Man, this reminds me of the thread a month ago with people agonizing over taking an extra 5s to fuel scoop.

My own opinion of this is that since it's highly unlikely to interfere with anyone else's enjoyment of the game, there's no harm in it. Disclosure: I once "trade logged" when after an update my binds changed. As my out of control Python bounced around inside the station while the obliteration timer counted down, I put full pips to SYS, selected "save and exit" and prayed real hard... luckily when I logged back in I still had most of my hull so I was able to fix my binds and go back in.

That is not trade logging, but combat logging.
You were fighting with the controls.

 

[Morbad]

I draw the line when I'm bothering someone else. Any proof whatsoever that this action is in any way noticeable or an inconvenience to others and that's that. I don't think it makes a difference. I don't think it affects the background sim, nor does it bump me up a "ladder" - no such thing exists.

If you've never seen trade prices or faction influence shift over time, or doubt that CG's are actually influenced by player actions, you haven't been paying attention, or are being willfully ignorant.

Of course I was being a bit facetious, but honestly - I'm as happy with relaxing and taking things easy as the next man, but once you've seen a sequence or performed an action a few thousand times, expecting me to be "immersed" is a little presumptuous, you know? To each their own.

I don't consider someone not being immersed by not cheating a particularly good excuse to cheat.

Disclosure: I once "trade logged" when after an update my binds changed. As my out of control Python bounced around inside the station while the obliteration timer counted down, I put full pips to SYS, selected "save and exit" and prayed real hard... luckily when I logged back in I still had most of my hull so I was able to fix my binds and go back in.

There was no in-game reason for your bindings to have changed, so you should not have been put in that situation in the first place. Logging out and back in was entirely reasonable. You didn't do it to gain an advantage you would not otherwise have had, you did it to mitigate the negative aspects of a bug that never should have been there.

If you continued to 'trade log' because you found it increased your rate of trade beyond what you'd otherwise be willing or able to do legitimately, then that is going to harm the game for others.

 

[Ving]

I'm going to play for an extra hour tonight, so I can harm the game for others

 

[Morbad]

I'm going to play for an extra hour tonight, so I can harm the game for others

You can't harm the game for others by actually playing it.

 

[Samosa]

If you've never seen trade prices or faction influence shift over time, or doubt that CG's are actually influenced by player actions, you haven't been paying attention, or are being willfully ignorant.

I believe they fluctuate with or without player influence. CGs are another matter, I may feel differently about that. There are people involved.

I don't consider someone not being immersed by not cheating a particularly good excuse to cheat.

It's a good thing I don't need your permission to play the game in any way FD allows!

 

[Tarman]

I draw the line when I'm bothering someone else. Any proof whatsoever that this action is in any way noticeable or an inconvenience to others and that's that. I don't think it makes a difference. I don't think it affects the background sim, nor does it bump me up a "ladder" - no such thing exists.



Of course I was being a bit facetious, but honestly - I'm as happy with relaxing and taking things easy as the next man, but once you've seen a sequence or performed an action a few thousand times, expecting me to be "immersed" is a little presumptuous, you know? To each their own.

Just realized that many people tend to use the term "immersion" as interchangeable with "accomplishing in-game goals with in-game methods". I think they're close but not 100%.

I'd rather use the tools available inside the game universe to accomplish my Pretend Spaceman goals rather than the mechanics of the game as a program on my computer; but since one of my goals is to Pretend Spaceman in the first place, stuff like this would be counter to my personal needs.

IDK how immersive it is on any kind of RP level, but I like to have my avatar live or die by the world inside the game. I let it loose in there, and see what happens to it. I'm always disappointed when, say, a game can't kill me because an NPC is stuck on a piece of scenery. I'd rather get chewed up than saved by a terrain glitch (looking at everything you make Bethesda), or repeatedly blipping in and out of my inventory to create a loading disaster in its behaviour routines, that kind of thing.

What is it, Skyrim, where you can avoid theft charges by putting buckets on the heads of NPCs? It'd get me ahead in the gameplay but it'd cheapen my personal experience according to my gaming style. If I was more interested in playing Skyrim to accumulate vast wealth, I'd probably have an inventory of buckets for such thievery.

 

[Dhan]

You can't harm the game for others by actually playing it.

I think he meant he was gonna exploit trade logging a bit more. And naturally, he's telling us beforehand to try to get a rise out of someone.

 

[Morbad]

It's a good thing I don't need your permission to play the game in any way FD allows!

Are you sure about this?

I think he meant he was gonna exploit trade logging a bit more. And naturally, he's telling us beforehand to try to get a rise out of someone.

I thought he was making a joke by implying that playing the game could give him an advantage in game over not playing it, not that he was going to cheat.

I'm firmly of the opinion that anything you can do in game, without resorting to abusing bugs, unintended features, or otherwise cheating, is good for the game. Conversely, almost any exploit is going to ultimately be bad for the game.

 

[Ving]

I think he meant he was gonna exploit trade logging a bit more. And naturally, he's telling us beforehand to try to get a rise out of someone.

No, just exploit trading and some extra game time to get an unfair advantage over everyone else...you obviously didn't read my earlier post where I pointed out why 'trade logging' is a waste of time, not to mention immersion breaking ^^

 

[Morbad]

No, just exploit trading and some extra game time to get an unfair advantage over everyone else

Except you aren't getting an unfair advantage over anyone else. You are putting in the time and reaping whatever rewards that provides you. You aren't exploiting oversights to compress more trade into that time than you'd otherwise be able to.

 

[Dhan]

No, just exploit trading and some extra game time to get an unfair advantage over everyone else...you obviously didn't read my earlier post where I pointed out why 'trade logging' is a waste of time, not to mention immersion breaking ^^

I actually did. I just didn't take your word for it, sorry. Regardless of whether it works or not, it is an unintended use of game mechanics to try to gain an advantage, i.e. exploiting.

 

[Samosa]

Just realized that many people tend to use the term "immersion" as interchangeable with "accomplishing in-game goals with in-game methods". I think they're close but not 100%.

I tend to think of immersion as losing oneself in the experience. In this case, I think it's a pretty decent trick if one can do so with something incredibly repetitive, but I'm very happy for those who can.

Are you sure about this?

Until told otherwise. Really, I see no problem programmatically or in policy. We see things differently.