Turret damage?

[Old Duck]

Also, were there any changes to scramble spectrum and missile damage over the last year?

Scrambled Spectrum stopped working for me against NPCs. I used to be able to trigger random thruster failures, but when I switched to PC and tried that on my new build, nothing. There was zero evidence any module was being "scrambled", and I know what I'm looking for because SS burst lasers was a favorite of mine back on PS4 with some of my smaller ships. It's definitely broken, and nobody will convince me otherwise.

So I ditched it

 

[Bigmaec]

Scrambled Spectrum stopped working for me against NPCs. I used to be able to trigger random thruster failures, but when I switched to PC and tried that on my new build, nothing. There was zero evidence any module was being "scrambled", and I know what I'm looking for because SS burst lasers was a favorite of mine back on PS4 with some of my smaller ships. It's definitely broken, and nobody will convince me otherwise.

So I ditched it

I sense another test incoming, involving Black Betty, me, an anaconda and 8 scramble burst lasers

 

[galahad2069]

Well turrets on a Vulture is still silly, but this thread evolved into the most useful one I've seen lately, thanks for the tests and all the info

 

[Old Duck]

I sense another test incoming, involving Black Betty, me, an anaconda and 8 scramble burst lasers

Make sure to also test it against NPCs. It might actually work against players, but NPCs were completely unaffected the last time I tried it (and I used it a lot before finally giving up).

 

[Morbad]

Hmmmm, I think you missed where I said that not every ship and hardpoint can mount turrets (in my fantasy game), so gimbals would be the only auto-aiming option for most locations. Turrets are so massively nerfed in size one and two hardpoints that they are essentially a niche product. Not providing any real damage, just a delivery system for the engineer's magic spells and maybe holding off shield recharge a little longer.

Power consumption, weight, draw, tracking speed all could lead to gimbals being better in some cases as well as weapon options that make more sense as defensive turrets. This isn't crazy town stuff here, turrets (actually effective ones) phasing in at CVT sized hulls is something that's out there in other games with balancing factors applied to it.

With the few constraints you provided in your previous post it would essentially eliminate the utility of gimbals if they didn't do more damage than turrets.

Yes, radical changes could make turrets more useful and also retain a niche or other mounts, but as it stands, ED doesn't have many ships that need turrets to be able to deliver damage, and turrets already have plenty of utility outside of being damage mainstays. With the fully modular weapon systems ED has and the fact that we don't have any sort of pilotable capital ships with dedicated turret mounts, I wouldn't expect any sort of change radical enough to make turrets competitive in damage (or DPE), for the ships and hardpoints we have, because the moment that happened they would substantially displace gimbals.

Scrambled Spectrum stopped working for me against NPCs. I used to be able to trigger random thruster failures, but when I switched to PC and tried that on my new build, nothing. There was zero evidence any module was being "scrambled", and I know what I'm looking for because SS burst lasers was a favorite of mine back on PS4 with some of my smaller ships. It's definitely broken, and nobody will convince me otherwise.

Were you hitting them in the back? You aren't supposed to be able to scramble thrusters on a ship that is facing you.

I sense another test incoming, involving Black Betty, me, an anaconda and 8 scramble burst lasers

Such a test will have to wait until I get back home.

However, until about 3.3 I ran a scramble burst or pulse turret in the chin hardpoint of my vette, and it was working on NPCs at least up until that point.

Haven't tested it recently enough to be certain that something hasn't changed in 3.4 or 3.5, however.

 

[Old Duck]

Well turrets on a Vulture is still silly, but this thread evolved into the most useful one lately, thanks for the tests and all the info

I've used turrets on my Courier in the past

Just on the nacelles, of course.

 

[Old Duck]

Were you hitting them in the back? You aren't supposed to be able to scramble thrusters on a ship that is facing you.

I've not heard of this - is it new? Last I checked, SS caused random module failure, not focused targeted module failure. This was my experience on PS4, as I know I've knocked out thrusters without actually targeting the thrusters. As for my experience on PC, I was using these on my Sidey, so getting behind an enemy was easy peasy.

 

[Bigmaec]

Regardless of the outcome, any test where I can shoot Morbad without him making me blow up is welcome
Although, hey Duck, up for a test?

 

[Old Duck]

Regardless of the outcome, any test where I can shoot Morbad without him making me blow up is welcome
Although, hey Duck, up for a test?

I think I sold my SS weapons... Don't ask me to engineer new ones, as I'm still at noob levels when it comes to mats. Unless you're looking for an excuse to shoot at me, which also lacks appeal

Next time I'm in the game I'll go through my module list and see if I still have those burst lasers.

 

[Morbad]

This is the most agile ship I've ever put a turret on where I expected it's ability to do damage to matter:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoqsbr9-tyg


Was fortunate I did, cause I had just gotten back in that ship and it was super twitchy relative to what I was just using, making my already mediocre aim that much worse.

I thought I was going to run myself out fuel with those plasma slug rails I kept whiffing out on.

I've not heard of this - is it new? Last I checked, SS caused random module failure, not focused targeted module failure.

The hemisphere of the hit has always mattered.

It doesn't matter what modules are hit, or even if any modules are hit, but modules not on the side of the ship the hits are on are excluded from consideration.

 

[Old Duck]

The hemisphere of the hit has always mattered.

It doesn't matter what modules are hit, or even if any modules are hit, but modules not on the side of the ship the hits are on are excluded from consideration.

Where did you conjure up this information, some voodoo lady reading chicken entrails? Forgive my lack of faith, but I never heard of this before and I would like some official documentation please (aka - link).

 

[Bigmaec]

This is the most agile ship I've ever put a turret on where I expected it's ability to do damage to matter:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoqsbr9-tyg


Was fortunate I did, cause I had just gotten back in that ship and it was super twitchy relative to what I was just using, making my already mediocre aim that much worse.

I thought I was going to run myself out fuel with those plasma slug rails I kept whiffing out on.



The hemisphere of the hit has always mattered.

It doesn't matter what modules are hit, or even if any modules are hit, but modules not on the side of the ship the hits are on are excluded from consideration.

I'm tempted to put a turret Multi on the FAS you fought, because I was constrained by the constant need to pull the trigger of the multi.
That caused me to use the thumb trigger for the PAs which by itself is worse then the index finger trigger.
And it's main use is bi-weave regen suppression and corrosive.
Any idea if the multi turret engagement range is equally abysmal like that of frag turrets?

 

[photomankc]

With the few constraints you provided in your previous post it would essentially eliminate the utility of gimbals if they didn't do more damage than turrets.

Yes, radical changes could make turrets more useful and also retain a niche or other mounts, but as it stands, ED doesn't have many ships that need turrets to be able to deliver damage, and turrets already have plenty of utility outside of being damage mainstays. With the fully modular weapon systems ED has and the fact that we don't have any sort of pilotable capital ships with dedicated turret mounts, I wouldn't expect any sort of change radical enough to make turrets competitive in damage (or DPE), for the ships and hardpoints we have, because the moment that happened they would substantially displace gimbals.

Well, my final word. Not sure I agree that gimbals would be replaced under my constraints. Gimbals would be:
1. ) The only option for small ships
2. ) Limited to perhaps 1 or 2 dorsal or ventral HP positions on some medium ships.
3. ) Lighter, faster tracking, lower power consumption, lower draw than turrets. An attack-oriented ship may well prefer to have gimbals as well as ships where additional weight matters.
4.) Large vessels would have options to mount and use defensive type turrets like close-range flack that offer good protection against smaller craft at the expense of offensive capability against larger ships. No, frag cannons are not flack.

The offensive pilot prefers the faster tracking and lighter weight weapons to keep his ship light and maneuverable where the 'conda trucker prefers his hauler-pig to have turrets since it's already a heavy slow beast.

A kinetic weapon (or any other really) losing 50% of it's effective damage potential because it's on a rotating base and not just a knuckle is nonsensical to me.

 

[Morbad]

Where did you conjure up this information, some voodoo lady reading chicken entrails? Forgive my lack of faith, but I never heard of this before and I would like some official documentation please (aka - link).

Testing and observations. Almost entirely certain I've never seen an NPC lose thruster control from being shot in the face with scramble, but it happened regularly when shooting them from behind, even if their thrusters weren't taking damage.

I also want to say that it was mentioned in part of a livestream or reddit Q&A after a livestream, around the time Engineers was released, but I could be mistaking that with something else.

I'm tempted to put a turret Multi on the FAS you fought, because I was constrained by the constant need to pull the trigger of the multi.
That caused me to use the thumb trigger for the PAs which by itself is worse then the index finger trigger.
And it's main use is bi-weave regen suppression and corrosive.
Any idea if the multi turret engagement range is equally abysmal like that of frag turrets?

Turret engagement range seems to be based off some fraction of maximum range, further constrained by the ability of the turret to track and get a long enough window to fire.

MC turrets will engage at a fair range (I use OCed medium MC turrets on my vette), but the spin up time of large MC turrets can be problematic. I wouldn't expect it to be much of an issue on a FAS as it can keep a firing solution on almost any target, but they are horrible at reacting quickly cause it won't even try to spin up until a target is in range with LoS.

 

[KW001]

I do not believe so.



Efficent pulse and burst lasers have damage fall off that starts at 500m. The scramble effect is likely tied to damage so if your engagements range is regularly beyond the 800m or so where LR damage overtakes efficient, that could explain any discrepancy. Or it could be placebo.



Identical loadouts?

Everything from hull rating, to explosive resistance, to MRPs will change damage to external modules.



The threshold is less notable than the trigger seeming to be per-hit rather than damage based.

Damage drop off/lower proc chance with the change to efficient scramble makes sense.

The missile thing though, its a bit odd. Loadouts are predominantly the same as I almost always fly the vette these days unless jump distance or transfer time is a bother and then I'll take the conda. I hull tank & 3 mrp my ships, so other than the bi-weaves and occasional discovery scanner in the in size 1 slot, every other optional is a HD HRP. The bubble vette is currently roughly anywhere between 1000-1800 hull health weaker than the colonia vette (typically bubble vette is around 6000-6600, at the moment) as I've been tweaking the weight/ maneuverability/ hrp sizes around the last few weeks. Resistances are the same plus or minus a few percent, basically everything is standard 50%+ res. Actually, until recently I used to spend a lot of time in a HAZ 300k+ light seconds from the closest station, so loadout was 2 mrps and an afmu, so I had even less module protection.

I dunno, maybe I've just been flying the large ships so long I've gotten extremely lazy when in a HAZ. Last time I was playing ED I was in Carcosa for the war, back in Aug or Sept, but since that was a CZ I took pip management a bit more seriously and never lost shields.

 

[KW001]

Scrambled Spectrum stopped working for me against NPCs. I used to be able to trigger random thruster failures, but when I switched to PC and tried that on my new build, nothing. There was zero evidence any module was being "scrambled", and I know what I'm looking for because SS burst lasers was a favorite of mine back on PS4 with some of my smaller ships. It's definitely broken, and nobody will convince me otherwise.

So I ditched it

Yeah scramble is really not necessary for pve, I just pack 'em in case of unexpected pvp moments, but it was always satisfying to see npc fas' & condas starting to tumble out of control. I left all my legacy long range lasers back in Colonia and decided to go with efficient builds for new ships here in the bubble, and I've been back into Elite for two or three weeks now, but it was only a couple of nights ago I realized I haven't seen thruster malfunctions (probably actually pp malfunctions) as often as I used to.