Type-6 as fast as an Eagle.... Come on....
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Okay. Now show us the point where it indicates how the speed of the rocket itself changes the amount of the thrust (that is what your thinking ultimately was about, wasn't it?)?
yes sorry about the paste lol but clear on wiki,
Basicaly all I am trying to say is you can not go faster then the "speed of the exhaust gases are leaving the engine", no matter the size of engine. as is said in wiki: "A rocket is propelled forward by a thrust force equal in magnitude, but opposite in direction "
You're making a frame of reference or system error. From the point of view of the ship, the exhaust is always leaving at high speed and always pushing forward.
Also, nobody says our thrusters are chemical rockets. They're likely impulse engines shooting out ions.
like said before, mass does matter.
if it wouldn't, it would be easy to accellerate a ship of unlimited size to lightspeed just by touching it with your fingertip
The type 6 is slow to accelerate and is slow to stop and moves like a slug in the game not so fun to fly
The eagle is very nimble and quick and is a joy to fly.
I do not know why this thread was started tbo but have had fun on it
I own an eagle and did own the type 6 and there is a big difference. but sold it for a viper...now that is fast!!!!!
And to the OP there is a thing in your ship called boost and all ships have it and if a type 6 has an eagle behind it it will be pressing boost lots and trying to jump asap if attacked if it was not in the game pirating would be too easy.
The eagle is very nimble and quick and is a joy to fly.
I do not know why this thread was started tbo but have had fun on it
I own an eagle and did own the type 6 and there is a big difference. but sold it for a viper...now that is fast!!!!!
And to the OP there is a thing in your ship called boost and all ships have it and if a type 6 has an eagle behind it it will be pressing boost lots and trying to jump asap if attacked if it was not in the game pirating would be too easy.
There is no infinite thrust in any engine of any type regardless of fuel type whether ion impulse, hydrogen what ever you choose there will always be a point where you get equal thrust to speed at that point you can not go any faster.
Universal Speed Limit
Particles that have mass require energy to accelerate them. The closer to the speed of light you get a particle, the more energy is required to go faster. This is because the particles themselves get more massive in proportion to the increased velocity. In short, the faster you go, the heavier you get.
Thanks to this inconvenient truth, if you wanted to accelerate a single electron to ‘light speed’, you would need an infinite amount energy due to the electron becoming infinitely heavy. There isn’t enough energy in the entire universe to propel just a single electron to the speed of light.
Apply this to the mass of the Lakon - Type 6 and the Eagle in Einstein's Theory of Relativity and the above's particle electron applies to any mass.
Particles that have mass require energy to accelerate them. The closer to the speed of light you get a particle, the more energy is required to go faster. This is because the particles themselves get more massive in proportion to the increased velocity. In short, the faster you go, the heavier you get.
Thanks to this inconvenient truth, if you wanted to accelerate a single electron to ‘light speed’, you would need an infinite amount energy due to the electron becoming infinitely heavy. There isn’t enough energy in the entire universe to propel just a single electron to the speed of light.
Apply this to the mass of the Lakon - Type 6 and the Eagle in Einstein's Theory of Relativity and the above's particle electron applies to any mass.
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In the end it comes down to balancing for fun. A Type 6 is the kind of ship that doesn't manouver that well and has poorly positioned weapons. A Small agile ship like an eagle can run circles around it. It the T6 was also slow then it would just sit there and get shot to pieces. No one would bother to have one because there would be no opportunity to evade the first pest that takes an interest in you. Where is the fun in that.
FD has thrown physics out the window to make combat enjoyable and give everyone with in reason a fighting chance. Combat with real space physics can be incredibly dull. Just look at frontier where it took forever to slow down and regular combat speed wasn't really possible. You just end up with a jousting match and no dogfighting.
I just got a stock Type 6. Bulked it up to 84t did one profitable round trip and am already quite bored with it. My cobra has 40t but is so much more fun, runs circles around it, accelerates faster, has a lot more flexibility and does combat quite well. I'm not sure I will be using the T6 that much. The cobra felt a bit cumbersome after my old viper too, but at least it is versatile.
If you can't handle a T6 in an Eagle then you probably just need practice. Hopefully NPC's will be able to get masslocked through proximity so they can't just jump out whenever they like. That seems to be the biggest problem with attacking a significantly larger ship at the moment.
FD has thrown physics out the window to make combat enjoyable and give everyone with in reason a fighting chance. Combat with real space physics can be incredibly dull. Just look at frontier where it took forever to slow down and regular combat speed wasn't really possible. You just end up with a jousting match and no dogfighting.
I just got a stock Type 6. Bulked it up to 84t did one profitable round trip and am already quite bored with it. My cobra has 40t but is so much more fun, runs circles around it, accelerates faster, has a lot more flexibility and does combat quite well. I'm not sure I will be using the T6 that much. The cobra felt a bit cumbersome after my old viper too, but at least it is versatile.
If you can't handle a T6 in an Eagle then you probably just need practice. Hopefully NPC's will be able to get masslocked through proximity so they can't just jump out whenever they like. That seems to be the biggest problem with attacking a significantly larger ship at the moment.
yes sorry about the paste lol but clear on wiki,
Basicaly all I am trying to say is you can not go faster then the "speed of the exhaust gases are leaving the engine", no matter the size of engine. as is said in wiki: "A rocket is propelled forward by a thrust force equal in magnitude, but opposite in direction "
And what I'm trying to tell you is; you're wrong. The velocity of the exhaust gases have no bearing on any imagined top speed of the spacecraft. There is no top speed other than dictated by relativity i.e. the speed of light. The part you quoted is simply a restating of Newton's 3rd law; for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction - the rocket fuel going out the back is the action, the rocket accelerating forward is the reaction. The rocket's velocity is not part of the equation.
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And assuming we're not talking about the speed of light being the limiting factor, what force is preventing the ship from further acceleration. If you've got mass going out the back, you've got a force pushing the ship forward, if there's no acceleration that mean's there's a further force preventing it. What is it?
The only two things important with regards to achieving velocity in space is thrust to mass ratio and exhaust velocity. Increase either, and your acceleration is faster. There is however no limit to final velocity outside of what velocity you have when the fuel runs out, or increasing energy requirements to increase velocity as you start hitting relativistic speeds.
Since we can assume _ALL_ spaceships in ED use the same propulsion system, some kind of hydrogen-electric plasma drive most likely, then exhaust velocity amongst the ships is a fixed constant - only variable then with regards to acceleration is thrust to mass ratio. Obviously bigger ships have more powerful engines, if big enough the ratio may be such that even a huge ship may very well out-accelerate a much smaller ship.
Also, whatever speed is displayed in your HUD when running under 'normal' propulsion (IE not going at relativistic, or even FTL, speeds using the FSD) is not an absolute speed. It is your velocity with regards to a frame of reference. If moving say 100m/s as you approach a station, that is just your velocity with regards to that station. If that station is in Low Earth Orbit, you are actually moving at ~7600m/s +/- 100m/s depending on vector to the station.
In ED they've made things a bit easier though, with 'speed governors' that aid the pilot in not going all Newtonian in the piloting. If one had full control, I very much doubt any but the most die-hard grognards would ever manage to do anything even remotely useful in the game...
Best regards
A Seasoned Kerbal Space Program Player
Since we can assume _ALL_ spaceships in ED use the same propulsion system, some kind of hydrogen-electric plasma drive most likely, then exhaust velocity amongst the ships is a fixed constant - only variable then with regards to acceleration is thrust to mass ratio. Obviously bigger ships have more powerful engines, if big enough the ratio may be such that even a huge ship may very well out-accelerate a much smaller ship.
Also, whatever speed is displayed in your HUD when running under 'normal' propulsion (IE not going at relativistic, or even FTL, speeds using the FSD) is not an absolute speed. It is your velocity with regards to a frame of reference. If moving say 100m/s as you approach a station, that is just your velocity with regards to that station. If that station is in Low Earth Orbit, you are actually moving at ~7600m/s +/- 100m/s depending on vector to the station.
In ED they've made things a bit easier though, with 'speed governors' that aid the pilot in not going all Newtonian in the piloting. If one had full control, I very much doubt any but the most die-hard grognards would ever manage to do anything even remotely useful in the game...
Best regards
A Seasoned Kerbal Space Program Player
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No no
I solo elite Anacondas so combat skill is no problem.But what Boggles my mind a bit is that we have a speed cap and the cargo ship is as fast as a Fighter. It justdoes not make sense. The Cargo type ships should maybe have half top speed.
The engine is your limiting factor.
Ok : let us say you can go as fast as 10 x the speed of light because your engine can produce thrust = to 10 x the speed of light
the only limiting factor is your engine can not push out anything out the back end more then 10 x the speed of light
every thing being equal your engine would be pushing you forward at 10 x the speed of light
So the only limiting factor is how fast your engine can squeeze out what ever from behind it to give you your forward speed which eventual will equal.
Aerodynamic considerations, which are irrelevant in a near vacuum.
Also, the Eagle is ancient, and if you want to force aircraft analogies, a late war B29 was quite a bit faster than almost any pre-war fighter.
No we aren't. There isn't any drag, your ship's flight computer just has overriding control and over your thrusters, and keeps you capped at certain velocity relative to you frame of reference.
They have a vision and opinion, but better is wholly subjective.
Given how many people think fighting is about jousting in Frontier Elite II, I'd probably agree with them...most people are too dumb to be able to handle having to use engines in bursts, rather than trying to accelerate constantly.
Why referring to newtonian stuff for an ED ingame question? -Those two just doesn't fit together
ED's flight physics model is very Newtonian at it's core. It just has a pile of arbitrary limitations bolted to it to make it playable for those who want biplanes in space.
This is wrong. The thrust coming out the back of your rocket always has speed relative to the rocket.
If you disagree with a known law of nature and demonstrable fact, you are still wrong.
Doesn't matter what the relative velocity of a rocket is, if it has fuel, it can still accelerate. If it has infinite fuel, it can accelerate forever.
At what speeds?
The only time you are moving faster than ~475 m/s in ED is during a frame shift.
Relative to the rocket. Read that part over and over until you understand it.
Basicaly all I am trying to say is you can not go faster then the "speed of the exhaust gases are leaving the engine", no matter the size of engine. as is said in wiki: "A rocket is propelled forward by a thrust force equal in magnitude, but opposite in direction "
And you have utterly no idea what the wiki is saying.
Barring any change to the atmosphere, the engine itself, or the fuel going to it, the speed of the exhaust gasses relative to the rocket never changes, no matter how fast the rocket is moving relative to something else, so the rocket can accelerate no matter it's velocity relative to anything else.
You have become the only person I have ever put on ignore because of your impossible willful ignorance and utter lack of reading comprehension.
No - engine exhaust velocity only limits acceleration - NOT final velocity.
Rockspider
completely wrong mate. so completely wrong.
there is only one force being exerted on your ship - this is coming from your thrusters. if there is no counter force being exerted (and there is NO counter force. "the engine" is not a counter force.) then you will constantly be increasing in speed.
if your acceleration vector is greater than zero, you will always be increasing in speed. if your acceleration is less than zero, you will be slowing down. if your acceleration vector is zero, you will maintain speed.
F = MA
MA = F
A = F / M
where your acceleration is equal to your force over mass. higher mass with equivalent force yields lower levels of acceleration - the problem being that each ship has different thrusters, or different levels of force (as well as mass). no matter what, if your exerting a force you will be accelerating until that force is no longer exerted, considering there is no friction or opposing force. ignore the few atoms of hydrogen / etc that exists per cubic meter in space.
As someone already stated, the only time this breaks down is when approaching c as your mass increases, allegedly the point where it is equal to force resulting in no acceleration. This I don't know much about though.
-C
completely wrong mate. so completely wrong.
there is only one force being exerted on your ship - this is coming from your thrusters. if there is no counter force being exerted (and there is NO counter force. "the engine" is not a counter force.) then you will constantly be increasing in speed.
if your acceleration vector is greater than zero, you will always be increasing in speed. if your acceleration is less than zero, you will be slowing down. if your acceleration vector is zero, you will maintain speed.
F = MA
MA = F
A = F / M
where your acceleration is equal to your force over mass. higher mass with equivalent force yields lower levels of acceleration - the problem being that each ship has different thrusters, or different levels of force (as well as mass). no matter what, if your exerting a force you will be accelerating until that force is no longer exerted, considering there is no friction or opposing force. ignore the few atoms of hydrogen / etc that exists per cubic meter in space.
As someone already stated, the only time this breaks down is when approaching c as your mass increases, allegedly the point where it is equal to force resulting in no acceleration. This I don't know much about though.
-C
