Ships Type 8 worse for mining than the Python?

[Uname654]

I gave up on T-8 as a serious mining ship. Now, I only mine for fun. Something like - oh look, new diamonds spot in the system I just discovered. Lets see if I can find a few.
This is it. My attempts to mine tritium, for example, ended with "Oh F this... I am out of here!"
I think I got 40t and the time-effort-return was ridiculous. So, I am not taking it seriously.

What really sucks in ED is that NPC are absolutely useless. Why cant I have a boat full of miner NPC's I can send out to a ring systems I just discovered and return with tritium (or platinum I can drag along for 10K ly in hope of selling it)? Plan their mining trips from FC, schedule T-8 cargo ships to deliver limpets, ammo and return with ore to be processed in FC or in ship full of ore processors. Nothing complicated. Of course, this would require an actual ship-to-ship transfer. Lets use a huge duct between 2 ships.

 

[rootsrat]

I suppose that if I throw out the FSD booster, this would give more cargo space in the Type 8:

Class 7: 7E cargo rack
Class 6: 6E cargo rack
Class 6: 6E cargo rack
Class 6: 6D shield generator
Class 5: 5A fuel scoop
Class 5: 5A collector limpet controller
Class 4: 4A refinery
Class 2: 1D prospector limpet controller
Class 1: 1I detailed surface scanner

for a total of 256 tons.

(But then, if I do the same with the Python, I get more cargo space there as well. Maybe 32 tons less, but still. I'm still not sure it's enough to offset the worse hardpoints.)

It has the benefit of handling SCO much better though. That's a pure win.

T8 is fine as it is imo. Let's not make all of the new ships OP please?

 

[rootsrat]

What really sucks in ED is that NPC are absolutely useless. Why cant I have a boat full of miner NPC's I can send out to a ring systems I just discovered and return with tritium (or platinum I can drag along for 10K ly in hope of selling it)? Plan their mining trips from FC, schedule T-8 cargo ships to deliver limpets, ammo and return with ore to be processed in FC or in ship full of ore processors. Nothing complicated. Of course, this would require an actual ship-to-ship transfer. Lets use a huge duct between 2 ships.

It doesn't "suck". Elite is just not a management game in the way you're (seemingly) envisioning it.

You want X series for that, with X4 being the newest release. Highly recommend if you wanna be a space boss of an economical empire.

 

[SergMx]

It doesn't "suck". Elite is just not a management game in the way you're (seemingly) envisioning it.

You want X series for that, with X4 being the newest release. Highly recommend if you wanna be a space boss of an economical empire.

Oh, that's great. Too bad not everyone realizes that.

 

[Uname654]

It doesn't "suck". Elite is just not a management game in the way you're (seemingly) envisioning it.

You want X series for that, with X4 being the newest release. Highly recommend if you wanna be a space boss of an economical empire.

Thanks. I'll take a look.

Yes, I am aware ED has no economy but mining team for only those systems you discover would be cool.

One more thing about Type 8.
If this is a cargo ship, why is the largest cargo rack 7? I would be much happier if something called a cargo ship has at least 8 and 7 CR.

 

[SergMx]

Thanks. I'll take a look.

Yes, I am aware ED has no economy but mining team for only those systems you discover would be cool.

One more thing about Type 8.
If this is a cargo ship, why is the largest cargo rack 7? I would be much happier if something called a cargo ship has at least 8 and 7 CR.

Because it's a medium-sized ship.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

Thanks. I'll take a look.

Yes, I am aware ED has no economy but mining team for only those systems you discover would be cool.

One more thing about Type 8.
If this is a cargo ship, why is the largest cargo rack 7? I would be much happier if something called a cargo ship has at least 8 and 7 CR.

I think the devs might have had the idea to use it as a miner, and the class 7 slot would be for the multi-limpet controller. This gives it around 10% more cargo capacity than a Python, though slower extraction speed (4.9MW vs 8.6MW). In terms of money making, the two are much closer than I originally thought, but I'm pretty sure that the Python is still the winner for laser mining. What about core mining? I think the Python will win because it has double the ammo for the seismic launcher. I'm sure I remember running out before the cargo was full when I only had one. You can sythesise ammo as long as you have enough mercury, but that's not so easy to get or trade. The other stuff is common.

 

[Nowski]

As far as I can tell (no claims to mining expertise here!) the definitive info on Type-8 mining was linked a few pages back in the thread - this post in the ED subreddit. It's a really thorough job and covers everything in a lot of detail.

Not being too bothered about optimising to the hilt, I've been using something like the "funny 240T build using the size 7 universal multi-controller" mentioned there for laser mining. I just like having a Type-8 with a universal controller in it. My one works out at 224 cargo capacity.

I found four of the modified mining lasers you can get from the Torval megaship in 21 Eridani, combined with an ordinary 2D mining laser are the best combo. With a G5 weapons focused distributor you can deplete almost any asteroid before running out of juice. The modded lasers are long range and low power use.

With less than G5 weapons focus, I found it works well to create two laser fire groups, one with all the lasers and one with just the size 1 modified lasers and no 2D. From a distance, or when the power has dropped too much, I switch to the "no 2D" group, and back again when the target is inside the considerably shorter range of the 2D. In fact even now I have a G5 distro, I still use the two fire groups because of the range factor.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

As far as I can tell (no claims to mining expertise here!) the definitive info on Type-8 mining was linked a few pages back in the thread - this post in the ED subreddit. It's a really thorough job and covers everything in a lot of detail.

Not being too bothered about optimising to the hilt, I've been using something like the "funny 240T build using the size 7 universal multi-controller" mentioned there for laser mining. I just like having a Type-8 with a universal controller in it. My one works out at 224 cargo capacity.

I found four of the modified mining lasers you can get from the Torval megaship in 21 Eridani, combined with an ordinary 2D mining laser are the best combo. With a G5 weapons focused distributor you can deplete almost any asteroid before running out of juice. The modded lasers are long range and low power use.

With less than G5 weapons focus, I found it works well to create two laser fire groups, one with all the lasers and one with just the size 1 modified lasers and no 2D. From a distance, or when the power has dropped too much, I switch to the "no 2D" group, and back again when the target is inside the considerably shorter range of the 2D. In fact even now I have a G5 distro, I still use the two fire groups because of the range factor.

If you do the grind for the Torval lasers, they become even closer because the number of collectors comes into play. I'm still betting on a Python. With a Python, I can do a sustained (over a few hours) 110 -120 million per hour of platinum. That includes the time for travelling to a station ca. 100ly, selling, refueling and everything. If anyone has stats on their T8, let's get the whole picture. Whatever the stats say counts for nothing. You get the answer from the results.

That guy, who did the work in that link, has done a really good analysis. I've studied his stuff before. It gives you a good understanding of what's going on, but you need to add that to actual experience to get the whole picture, where you start to discover things that you didn't think of, like how the limpets behave around the ship , how easy it is to position and manoeuvre the ship, how quick it is between the rocks, how attractive it is to the pirates , how rapidly can you get to the market and back, and things like that.

 

[Torland Fawkes]

Not only do you get the same cargo capacity of the Python but you lose 30% of your rotational speed, 10% of your top speed, 40% of your lateral thrust authority and a bunch of acceleration. Oh and you lose nearly half of your capacitance and are stuck with class1 lasers meaning it'll take significantly longer to deplete a rock, possibly as much as 3x longer.

I'll keep my Krait MkII thanks.

 

[SergMx]

Not only do you get the same cargo capacity of the Python but you lose 30% of your rotational speed, 10% of your top speed, 40% of your lateral thrust authority and a bunch of acceleration. Oh and you lose nearly half of your capacitance and are stuck with class1 lasers meaning it'll take significantly longer to deplete a rock, possibly as much as 3x longer.

I'll keep my Krait MkII thanks.

That's why you end up laser mining from a Cutter, Corvette, or eventually a T10.

P.S. And I don't quite understand the phrasing in the article:

For example, if the 3m python filled 200 tons in 10 minutes with 10 minutes of round trip travel time, the T8 would take 18 minutes with the same travel time for 28 minutes total (to python's 20 minutes), but for 320 tons of cargo. That gives T8 an 11.45 ton/minute time vs the python's 10 ton/minute time.

Has he tried SCO on a T8?

 

[DjVortex]

Not the Type-8 (or Python), but didn't want to create a new thread just for this. I came up with this build based on feedback from this very thread, and some experimentation. Goal is efficient laser mining (maximum profits and merits per hour). What do you think?

Type-9 Heavy:

Hardpoints:

• M: 2D mining laser
• M: 2D mining laser
• M: 2D mining laser
• S: 1D mining laser
• S: 1D mining laser

Utility mounts:

• 0I (sirius) heat sink launcher (primarily for SCO use)

Core internal:

• 1C lightweight alloy (heavy duty + deep plating)
• 5A power plant (armoured, for better heat efficiency)
• 7A thrusters (dirty tuning)
• 6A FSD SCO (increased range + mass manager)
• 5D life support (lightweight, if you want)
• 6A power distributor (weapon focused)
• 4D sensors
• 6C fuel tank

Optional internal:

• 8: 8E cargo rack
• 8: 8E cargo rack
• 7: 7A collector limpet controller (lightweight)
• 6: 6E cargo rack
• 5: 5A collector limpet controller (lightweight)
• 4: 4E cargo rack
• 4: 4A refinery
• 3: 3E cargo rack
• 3: 3A collector limpet controller (lightweight)
• 2: 1A prospector limpet controller
• 1: 1I detailed surface scanner

Total cargo capacity is 600 tons, weapons capacity is 80 MW, weapons recharge is 7.488 MJ/s, 9 simultaneous collector limpets.

 

[K Olley]

7A universal multi limpet controller gives you 8 collectors instead of 4
The two 1D lasers are not really needed but an abrasion blaster is handy, I don't even bother to check I just blow the bits off and if its wanted the limpets will collect it.

 

[DjVortex]

7A universal multi limpet controller gives you 8 collectors instead of 4

Yeah, it also appears to have additional significant perks to it, including infinite limpet lifetime (limpets can fail for other reasons, but it should still significantly reduce the need to spawn them), significantly bigger range, and significantly faster limpets.

My explorer brain just could not cope with an enormously super-heavy module that cannot be made lighter, but with a mining ship jump range is largely irrelevant (and it reduces the jump range by quite a tiny bit anyway). Also, 8 simultaneous limpets ought to be good enough, so 9 aren't really needed, so I can replace the others with cargo racks.

I still have to wonder why a dedicated limpet controller is so much worse than the universal one. One would think it would be the other way around: Given that it's dedicated to one singular task, one would think it would be better at that particular task. I suppose it's the price to pay for it being engineerable for weight.

 

[Nowski]

including infinite limpet lifetime

I read on here somewhere this stat refers to its prospector limpets only, which made sense to me because I've used the Universal controller and had bunches of limpets from it expire. Sad, but logical I guess that the single "lifetime" stat slot is occupied by the most long-lived limpet of the different types available from the controller.

On the bright side, limpets are cheap and easily jettisoned.

 

[K Olley]

It depends on how you use this miner, I have not jumped my T9 in years, I park my carrier in orbit around the planet or gas giant and mine from there, I will occasionally use the SCO to travel to another ring in the same system.

The limpets when used as collectors still expire as normal on the multi limpet controller, when mining do not use it for prospectors always use a dedicated prospector grade A.

My T9 is only used out in the black beyond the range of NPC's.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

Yeah, it also appears to have additional significant perks to it, including infinite limpet lifetime (limpets can fail for other reasons, but it should still significantly reduce the need to spawn them), significantly bigger range, and significantly faster limpets.

My explorer brain just could not cope with an enormously super-heavy module that cannot be made lighter, but with a mining ship jump range is largely irrelevant (and it reduces the jump range by quite a tiny bit anyway). Also, 8 simultaneous limpets ought to be good enough, so 9 aren't really needed, so I can replace the others with cargo racks.

I still have to wonder why a dedicated limpet controller is so much worse than the universal one. One would think it would be the other way around: Given that it's dedicated to one singular task, one would think it would be better at that particular task. I suppose it's the price to pay for it being engineerable for weight.

It doesn't give anything special to the limpets - no infinite lifetime. All limpets controlled by it have the same properties as A-grade normal ones, assuming that it's the 7A one. The infinite life refers to the prospectors, which sit on the rocks as long as you want the same as a 1E one. If you get a B or C-grade multi-limpet controller, the different types of limpets take the B and C-grade properties, so the 3B operations one is better than the 3C mining one.

With the 7A multi limpet, for most ships, you're trading the number of collectors for cargo space. Cargo space affects travelling time, so if you have half the cargo space, you travel twice as much. That's why the inferior (on paper) T6 could substantially beat the Cobra mk3. The Cutter will always be more efficient without the 7A multi-limpet controller. The T9 can get an advantage from it and I think the T10 can too,. Whether you use it or not really depends on how you play the game and your attitude to efficiency. If your goal is to mine as much stuff as you can in a night with a Cutter, Anaconda or Corvette, you're better off without it. It's useful for a T8, but then why use a T8 when a Python would get more? All this is in relation to laser mining, not core mining.

 

[DjVortex]

It doesn't give anything special to the limpets - no infinite lifetime. All limpets controlled by it have the same properties as A-grade normal ones, assuming that it's the 7A one.

So it's just like having the 7A collector limpet controller, just with 8 limpets and more weight?

Although I suppose there's one minor other advantage: You get a hull repair limpet controller as well, which this being a shieldless build can actually become handy.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

So it's just like having the 7A collector limpet controller, just with 8 limpets and more weight?

Although I suppose there's one minor other advantage: You get a hull repair limpet controller as well, which this being a shieldless build can actually become handy.

Good point. That would allow you to claim back some cargo space, but it would leave you a bit vulnerable if you mine in a hsz RES.

 

[Hex Atma]

I really wanted to like the Type-8 as a laser miner but it suffers from a really bad PD and can't run what I consider to be the acceptable minimum for mining lasers, 2 mediums or the equivalent mix of smalls, even after engineering. While the universal limpet controller initially drew me to testing it due it being the only ship medium size that is able to mount it, the universal is ultimately overkill for how slow that thing scrapes asteroids. All that said, it turned into my favorite core mining ship for big hauls. SCO optimization is nice, it's surprisingly maneuverable in blasted rocks, the universal controller provides a good amount of limpets for one slot so you're not sitting around forever. And it has around 220t of cargo space on my configuration. A single full hold at around 600k credits each usually lands me about 200-250M after Torval's 45% mining bonus and 20% trade bond. Not to mention that core mining works just as well in any resource level as long as you can find a hotspot, good for her small power play territory.

With all that out of the way though, if you're looking for a dedicated laser miner I'd say either the Python or Krait Mk.II for a general purpose one or a Type-9 if you want to bring in over 500t of platinum in one go. The Type-8 just can't pump enough power to a reasonable setup.