This is the spectrogram from the UP sounds when one is in between the UP and Merope. It's too rich for my blood.
http://imgur.com/fMsQTD9
http://imgur.com/fMsQTD9
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UAs, Barnacles and other mysteries Thread 8 - The Canonn
- Thread starter Yaffle
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You beat me to the gun a little thereWas planning in writing a post-mortem on finding free-floating UPs...
The crucial aspect that seems to get missed in the implementation of this stuff is that it doesn't follow any gameplay interaction the game has "trained" us to do. As a sometimes-DM I know this feeling all too well. I write my own campaign stories rather than use packaged ones, and there's been plenty of times when I've had secrets miss the mark, and I've had to drop very directing clues to get the party there.
Starting with free-floating Unknown Artefacts, these were implemented mostly well. Exploration trains us to fly around unknown systems for up to an hour, scanning the objects in it. Every now and then we'll spot a signal source which, under todays game mechanics, we know to at least check the category of and threat level and, if it's anything weird or possibly something we want, we'll drop out. Combine those two, while scanning bodies in a shell-system we might stumble across an unknown signal source, which happens to be a T4 anomaly containing a UA. Cool. The only issue is the particular region of space they spawn made it pretty much just chance-based that we found them.
Barnacles on the other hand... the game teaches us "fly around the surface at 2km+ with your radar zoomed out looking for blue circles (which are points of interest) to find interesting stuff". So because of that, what players *aren't* going to do is fly around the surface of a map at 2km+ looking around where there *aren't* blue circles. That's very dumb, because it's the exact opposite of what the game taught us to do. We eventually found some, but the proof of the pudding is that we're still finding new ones on known planets. We needed to be dropped a lot of hints to look in the general right area too (heck, apparently the Merope barnacle which was the first find was one of the harder ones to find... sounds very familiar to the UP...).
Conversely, Tip-offs are great! Engaging normal gameplay (running missions) we suddenly get dropped a hint that "There might be something of interest on this planet at this location". It's easy since it's quite specific, but it doesn't have to be. What if tip-off style mechanics, when doing a detailed surface scan of a planet containing barnacles, simply dropped a message into your inbox simply reading "Anomolous signals detected on this planet". As much as I hate the fact barnacles don't show up as blue spots,, we now have a mechanic for scanning a planet and letting us know *something* is there. And that's the hint to go scouring the planet for anything, whether it shows up as a blue poi or not.
Which brings us to the UP. Location-based USS spawns were a hinted at thing... that Shipping Lanes vs Deep Space vs Proximity to a stellar object would spawn different USS.
What does exploration teach us again? Fly around a planet, point at things when you're in-range til they scan (which takes a couple seconds), move on to the next target", which is pretty much the polar opposite of "Fly around in relative proximity to a rare type of planet for up to an hour, waiting for a USS to spawn and hope it's an anomaly on the first or second go".
Nothing in the game teaches us to fly around in proximity of a planet in an unknown system for up to an hour or longer, cycling through potentially tens of USS waiting for an Anomaly to spawn. Do we know the exact spawn mechanics? No, but given UAs can also take up to an hour to spawn anywhere in a suitable system, it's likely UPs have the same USS-spawn rules, and the requirement simply is being IVO an ammonia planet. But this just deepens the problem that normal gameplay won't get you anywhere near likely to get one of these spawns. Factor in it's Ammonia planets possibly only in a certain region of space. These factors stack, and not linearly either. In summary, UP free-floater spawns are:
- (probably) In a very small subsection of the universe
- Spawn IVO a very rare type of planet
- Spawn so rarely you have to hang around them up to an hour or more to be satisfied they are/aren't spawning, and
- Have a player-search mechanic that isn't reflected in any other gameplay activity*
So what can I do to make this not just complaining, and actually more productive? What I've been suggesting for probably the lifetime of these things.
- Introduce mechanics around the scanner/detailed surface scanning that, at the very least, go as vague as "Hey, that solar body, i'd pay more attention to this than usual", or as specific as "Anomolous signal at (coordinates of fixed POI like a barnacle)"
- Make Barnacles show up as blue POIs (seriously... at the very least this will help all the people complaining about UA bombing...)*
- If you rely on RNG rarity, make activities related to finding these things tie-in with common game and activities, so people stand some chance of stumbling across them.
For what it's worth, as one last comparison point, a week or so ago I was spending time flying around the orbit of planets in systems within the shell (Remember when I asked if anyone had had a UA spawn within the radius of a planet in a system in the shell?) , so I guess it wasn't that outlandish an idea, but I didn't pursue it more than two or three planets because once again, these things have no feedback to tell you if you're on the right path or not (like the disco scan suggestion), and, frankly, I have better things to do than get into orbit of a planet, set a low-but-not-zero speed so I don't go flying off into deep space, and do other things around the house for an hour or so while I wait for that faithful click indicating "Discovered new signal source".
*EDIT: Also, barnacles have been around a while now, and they're being actively researched. Surely there's a "Barnacle surface scanner" by now from Palin or something that could make them show as blue POIs...
As much as I sympathize (and partially agree) with you, e.g. it doesn´t make any sense that U have an advanced surface scanner which tells U nothing about the surface - not in respect with Barnacles and other unknown (which makes sense though, if something is unknown how software shall recognize as POI), scan results should at least give a map dispersion about mineral concentration etc. and the body u scanned should be able to be set landing-points by coordinate-markers.
Same about some other completely "illogical" game mechs, e.g. You Nav-Comp is able to do fast/eco-route planning, adding the routed systems in a stack - so why for bloody hell isn´t there a function to add a selected system to the route (intermediate POI) or even to plan Your route manually at all by adding/removing systems to the stack manually? Doesn´t even need a feasibility check at all, if U manually plan your route wrong - like to long jump distance - hey man - was U planning, dont complain
Even more than 1000 Years old HANDHELD GPS trackers have that function and yet our ships hardware designers aren´t able to implement ancient SOL tech?
Ah, yes... sorry. Channel hopping a certain famous athletic competition back on Earth takes its toll on those batteries, sorry Dr!
Man it's so much worse than even that. Your magical Detailed Surface Scanner gives you the breakdown of material content for the scanned body, but can't be used to pinpoint where on the planet the materials are most likely to occur. No. You have to drive around aimlessly hoping the wave scanner might pick something up. Which is 'fun' for the first few hours, after which it's just plain old fashioned boring. And my 34th century onboard 'scanner' can't 'interpret' the wave-scan into something a tad more meaningful? Gimme a break here.As much as I sympathize (and partially agree) with you, e.g. it doesn´t make any sense that U have an advanced surface scanner which tells U nothing about the surface - not in respect with Barnacles and other unknown (which makes sense though, if something is unknown how software shall recognize as POI), scan results should at least give a map dispersion about mineral concentration etc. and the body u scanned should be able to be set landing-points by coordinate-markers.
Same about some other completely "illogical" game mechs, e.g. You Nav-Comp is able to do fast/eco-route planning, adding the routed systems in a stack - so why for bloody hell isn´t there a function to add a selected system to the route (intermediate POI) or even to plan Your route manually at all by adding/removing systems to the stack manually? Doesn´t even need a feasibility check at all, if U manually plan your route wrong - like to long jump distance - hey man - was U planning, dont complain
I see where upcoming releases are going to give a little more functionality to the nav-plotting, but still no waypoints? I can't help feeling the devs (bless 'em) spend a lot of time leaving stuff out on the grounds that it'd make life too easy and 'break the immersion' somehow. Really? I don't guess any of us here would want anything as mundane as 'fast-travel', so with 400 Billion systems to choose from where's 'easy' come into it?
Yep - same with scans of asteroid belts (not that i am a miner nor want become one
) - but, even if U detail scan em U get zip credits - completely out out of logic, normally U should (as prospector) get some 0,01% of content discovered...
As much as I agree with you that there are inconsistencies in game, I do not think that this topic is the best place to write about this.
So, it's pretty easy to detect unknown things
So, at the very least we know these things emit a signal. That's gotta exist *somewhere* on an electromagnetic spectrum. And we know it'll exist in our detectable frame of reference. Whatever these emit, it's in the audible frequency range. That means it's detectable. Easily, especially in space. That much stuff going out is going to stick out. When I sit on a HF radio at night, there's plenty of unknown stuff out there, but it's clearly there, above the squelch and the people I'm trying to listen to.
The only time you *can't* detect something is when it's outside the resolution of the equipment you're using. The UA/UPs and Barnacles *all* have auditory effects that are very easily detected. That sort of thing would light up on any decent spectral analysis suite.
I'd write a CG to collect barnacle scans or UAs to achieve this, but since I can't seem to get even a basic trading CG accepted by FD (ship battle weapons, hydrogen fuel and nerve agents to establish a military economy at an outpost in my Dictatorship faction's home system), my hopes of getting that sort of CG which is closely tied to the ongoing plot are slim to none.
Hey MB, throw a brother a bone here, does this sound like an idea or not?
anyone noticed that the gamescom interwiew part 1 has a message too at 4:48-4:55
As much as I agree with you that there are inconsistencies in game, I do not think that this topic is the best place to write about this.
yep, U are absolutly correct, apologies mate, BUT on the other hand, this specific thread has the most attention around in the very moment,
AND these inconsitencies DO affect the work done in this thread, don´t they?
So, it's pretty easy to detect unknown things
So, at the very least we know these things emit a signal. That's gotta exist *somewhere* on an electromagnetic spectrum. And we know it'll exist in our detectable frame of reference. Whatever these emit, it's in the audible frequency range. That means it's detectable. Easily, especially in space. That much stuff going out is going to stick out. When I sit on a HF radio at night, there's plenty of unknown stuff out there, but it's clearly there, above the squelch and the people I'm trying to listen to.
The only time you *can't* detect something is when it's outside the resolution of the equipment you're using. The UA/UPs and Barnacles *all* have auditory effects that are very easily detected. That sort of thing would light up on any decent spectral analysis suite.
I'd write a CG to collect barnacle scans or UAs to achieve this, but since I can't seem to get even a basic trading CG accepted by FD (ship battle weapons, hydrogen fuel and nerve agents to establish a military economy at an outpost in my Dictatorship faction's home system), my hopes of getting that sort of CG which is closely tied to the ongoing plot are slim to none.
Hey MB, throw a brother a bone here, does this sound like an idea or not?
Agree, just was going ahead to predict the exüplanation by defs why not implemented....
IMHO the UPs are Thargoid. The use of octal and interest in worlds with ammonia atmospheres is convincing. The UAs and the UPs are clearly related, and while that doesn't necessarily mean they are from the same source, I think they are. If the UPs appeared first and then the UAs I'd be more likely to think the UAs were from another source copying the UP technology, but as the UAs were first and given the UPs are Thargoid, I think it's most likely that the UAs are also Thargoid.
I wonder if the UAs are intended to warn humanity away. They were first found in systems near Merope, broadcasting Morse of the nearest astronomical body, behaviour that was probably copied from nav beacons. Then they moved to the shell, 135-150 Ly from Merope, forming some sort of perimeter (perhaps meaning "we've claimed this space"?) and broadcasting Morse-encoded images of nearby ships (gathering data on our capabilities?). Then the UPs appeared, scanning ammonia worlds inside the shell and transmitting the data back at the Merope via a narrow beam. That seems like a search for a colonisation target to me.
I don't think it's anywhere near perfect. The top left as atmosphere and the bottom right as radius are clear. But how are the two arcs of the top right quadrant indicative of temperature? How are two radial lines indicative of gravity? Neither of those fit at all well.
don´t agree with the conclusion that UP are necessarily thargoid origin.
In Tau Ceti expedition log similar kind of probe (body/head, polymer tech) are described already and concluding
from collision with one probe prior to arrival to Tau Ceti system, damaging the comm antenna, it appears the probes fly sublight, same as the generation-ships.
Why should thargoids, a species which even uses hyperspace iterdiction ( at least in the past) should use such low-tech on their probes?
A possible interpretation of top right being temperature, is the two arcs, as they are pointing at the central circle, represent solar radiation, a factor in surface temperature.
For gravity, two lines converging at the centre of the circle/planet make sense now that we know. I.e. two objects released from the far left points would fall towards the centre of the planet.
Temperature is a bit harder - earlier in this thread when we were still flailing in the dark I was convinced it was ADS. I guess it represents radiating heat, similar to how real-life things like WiFi logos show radiating EM.
Still hey it was supposed to be a challenge
As I've said before I find the interpretations of the supposed temperature and gravity quadrants pretty unconvincing. On top of that this theory doesn't explain the "-|-" and "-||" parts at the top and it needs to since it's thrown out the obvious interpretation of the quadrants being numbered since that doesn't fit either. Finally why would the bottom part be "|-- --|" to indicate distance rather than the far more obvious "|--------------|"?
As for your ideas for incorporating a key, I don't think any of them are all that convincing. If the transmission was generally intended to be found then why was the data sent in a narrowly directly signal rather than broadcast? Why was the key broadcast in a different method? If it's a malfunction then why has every UP malfunctioned the same way at the same time? So that leaves "comments in the code" which is pretty unsatisfying and could be used to explain just about any behaviour.
Despite all that we don't really have a better theory, so there's that. But personally I'm not convinced and so I feel the need to say something before this becomes accepted as correct by default.
i think because it is not only to be read as a symbol for "use this system as comparison factor" but it means
"l-- --l" -> "signal groups marked 1 to 4 to be read with system as comparison"....
which again makes me suspicious that we still didn´t get all out of the first sonographic image...
Next conflict in terpretation - group 0 was yet also referenced to Merope distance beeing 1, but not mentiond in that type of reading.
Additional, if specific allocated group1 to 4 to be read using that scale, it implies strongly that there are still other information where u dont need that scale (or a different one)
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Up emits EMP (threat detected) and then emits signal of what it is looking for (hello handsome human, this is what I want)?
... This doesn't make sense.
... This doesn't make sense.
This probably isn't going to help, but I found one within about 30 mins yesterday. I was in Mobius. Got the USS very close to Pleiades Sector KC-U b3-1 8, just above the exclusion zone.
make sense in that way that our ADS disturbs their comp, as ultimate resort (self-defense?) it gives out the EMP, which just occasionally also flushes data of the probes primary objective into the pulse ? Had more strange logics in ED...
I agree with this. Prior to the free floaters being found around ammonia worlds, I suspected that the Barnacles were Thargoid in origin, but the UAs/UPs weren't. My opinion has switched, and I think the barnacles might actually be remnants or results of the Mycoid Virus.
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