This really is getting on my nerves. The fact that small arms from ground troops can take out ships faster than another star ship can in space. I was going a crash site mission and there were already 8 enemies on ground with machine laser guns and I was landing and my ship went poof before I could get out. HOW is that eve possible?! A ship designed to take CANNON FIRE from OTHER SHIPS gets destroyed by small arms??? EVERY other game has gotten it right with troops engaging star ships or heavy mechanized forces. The fact there is no damage mitigation or reduction towards small arms and melt my ships faster than my personal shields is pathetic and is really ruining playing this game. On top of 90% of the ground missions not working properly.
Unbalanced Small arms against STAR SHIPS!
- Thread starter Ghostsoldier007
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- ground combat unbalanced
Vs. shields, handheld weaponry is stupidly effective against ships as they are on the same damage scale as ship-based weaponry (MJs). Even crazier, they can out-DPS some ship weapons assuming optimal range.
However, vs. armor, handheld weaponry has very low armor penetration capabilities and shouldn't insta-delete ship hull (with the exception of the L-6 rocket launcher - it can pack quite a punch at higher levels).
Do you happen to have a Coriolis or an EDShipyard link to the loadout of the ship you used? I might be able to figure out what happened if I can see what build you are using.
The one mission type I've had issues with recently is the Settlement Massacre one that points you to a specific Settlement; I'm constantly one target short of completing the mission. Up until the Hotfix for Update 11 I also had issues with the "Find the item in a crash site" missions, but haven't had that issue since. Do you have a list of the mission types that have bugged out on you?
there are similar "balances" that have been done before for small ships vs bigger ships and were you aware that 1 skimmer can entirely disable anaconda if it bumped it?
This is just how this game's balancing works.
They have no other effective means of limiting the effectiveness of vehicles from a different scale interacting with vehicles/people at lower scales it seems. I blame the nonsense "everything must dogfight" requirement for space ships.
edit: Though, i would be down for a compromise of being able to launch skimmers as missiles from my ship. That would make for hilarious CZ's. Hilarious or extremely aggravating depending on who's on the receiving end of one.
This is just how this game's balancing works.
They have no other effective means of limiting the effectiveness of vehicles from a different scale interacting with vehicles/people at lower scales it seems. I blame the nonsense "everything must dogfight" requirement for space ships.
edit: Though, i would be down for a compromise of being able to launch skimmers as missiles from my ship. That would make for hilarious CZ's. Hilarious or extremely aggravating depending on who's on the receiving end of one.
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I do not, my ship is not engineered. But I have a Class3-A shield gen, and two hull reinforced mods, on a Diamondback Explorer.
Because their guns are like this:
This is the reason why a handgun is more expensive than a medium-size ship-mounted railgun.
This is the reason why a handgun is more expensive than a medium-size ship-mounted railgun.
On-foot weapons have relatively high DPS but only 10 AP, which means that even against a sidewinder they only do half damage to hull. Yes, that even includes the L-6. That said, even low AP weapons can chip through you eventually if you skipped hull day entirely.
Case in point: I have a grade 5 L-6 that can take out a stock sidey in four shots. Against my exploration-fit DBX, which only has 448 EHP on its shields against explosive weapons with two pips, and only 259 EHP on its hull (compared to the stock sidey's 156 and 77 respectively) I actually ran out of ammo trying to blow it up while it was landed because the DBX's hull hardness, even on lightweight alloys, was enough to render even the heaviest-hitting on-foot weapons practically useless.
The viper mk4 I use for actual surface operations where it might get shot at has over 4000 effective hull HP when you take resists into account. Unsurprisingly, my viper mk4 does not get blown up by scavengers no matter how much they try to tickle it to death.
Case in point: I have a grade 5 L-6 that can take out a stock sidey in four shots. Against my exploration-fit DBX, which only has 448 EHP on its shields against explosive weapons with two pips, and only 259 EHP on its hull (compared to the stock sidey's 156 and 77 respectively) I actually ran out of ammo trying to blow it up while it was landed because the DBX's hull hardness, even on lightweight alloys, was enough to render even the heaviest-hitting on-foot weapons practically useless.
The viper mk4 I use for actual surface operations where it might get shot at has over 4000 effective hull HP when you take resists into account. Unsurprisingly, my viper mk4 does not get blown up by scavengers no matter how much they try to tickle it to death.
First mistake was trying to land your ship under enemy fire. Just use your ship as a weapon and squish the annoying gnats with it.Downward thrust. Upward thrust. Downward thrust. Done. And if reinforcements come, greet them with your canopy just as they drop out of the ship. They fly for miles.
Have you tried landing further away and going in on foot?
So what is your overall shield strength? Unengineered I'd guess around 128 MJ...
I play with a group of friends, doing a lot of EDO foot missions, and certainly have not found that many missions to be bugged, although there have been some, but not 9 out of 10.
I was doing crash site missions, and they just popped in while I was landing. Here is a screenshot of one instance. But they also dont always have the mission item and have to log out and back in, I have to do that normally 3 or 4 times every two or three missions. If I am running them with my Wife, and we share the mission they copy the same mission on top of each other.
Attachments
Very odd!
There was a time where assets spawned buried, in the same manner as your screenshot, but this was claimed to have been rectified a little while ago. It is disappointing if they are appearing, for you, with such regularity.
I recently fitted dumbfire missiles, they are very effective against scavengers..
Someone shooting at me while landing, deploy hardpoints and make them go boom, maybe wait for the seconds wave, boom again, then loot in peace..
Someone shooting at me while landing, deploy hardpoints and make them go boom, maybe wait for the seconds wave, boom again, then loot in peace..
So an infantry person can target a ship, but a ship can't target an infantry person (or srv these days).
I either want the same target confusing ability that infantry persons have on my ship, or I want to target that infantry person.
Don't tell me some crap that people are small.
It is 3300, we are going to have the technology to target opponents.
I either want the same target confusing ability that infantry persons have on my ship, or I want to target that infantry person.
Don't tell me some crap that people are small.
It is 3300, we are going to have the technology to target opponents.
Ok, so going off of a worst-case scenario (looking at Shield and Hull HP only):
Coriolis EDCD Edition
A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
s.orbis.zone
This Diamondback has Shields rated for 128 MJs (~332.8 MJs @ 4 pips into SYS with -20% Thermal, +40% Kinetic and +50% Explosive Resistances) and Hull rated for 490 MJs (with 1.0% Thermal, -18.8% Kinetic and -38.6% Explosive resistances). A Diamondback Explorer has a Hull Hardness value of 42.
I haven't seen Enforcer Scavengers at Crash Sites, so we can rule out the L-6; furthermore, Scavengers are typically either rank 1 or 2 and rarely 3, which corresponds to the level of their gear - Grades 1-3, respectively. Continuing with the theme of worst-case scenario, we'll assume that you came upon a group of 6 rank 3 Scavengers.
At Grade 3, under the assumption of bottomless magazines:
An AR-50 can deal 16 MJ/s worth of damage with an Armor Piercing value of 10, needing
490 MJ in the Hull / [16 MJ/s * (10 AP / 42 Hull Hardness) * (1.18 for the Hull Kinetic Resistance)] = 109 s or 1.81 minutes
to deplete the Hull HP.An Aphelion can deal 15.39 MJ/s worth of damage with an Armor Piercing Value of 10 (which is irrelevant vs. Shields), needing
332.8 MJ @ 4 pips in SYS / (15.39 MJ/s * 1.20 for the Thermal Resistance) = 18.0 seconds
to deplete the Shield HP.So, if we assume that our 6 Scavengers are carrying 3 Aphelions and 3 AR-50s and that they match resistances (Aphelions only shoot shield, AR-50s only shoot hull), the Diamondback's Shields would be depleted in 6 seconds and the Hull would be depleted in 36.3 seconds - not accounting for any damage incurred on a rough landing, which I have done on many occasions.
Certainly, this is a bit of an edge case with a somewhat unrealistic scenario (NPCs don't care about Resistances, Scavengers are typically either rank 1 or 2, and there would be a mix of Scouts, Commandos, Strikers and Sharpshooters instead of just Commandos like I assumed above), but hopefully that can put some perspective on how much firepower Odyssey's small arms weaponry can put out.
Yeah, I've had that one happen before at a Hidden Cache mission. Next time that happens, try relogging - that may reset the instance and either move the item to a different box or move the boxes entirely. I actually ran into an issue with a crash site last night where the item didn't spawn and a relog cleared that up (though honestly the mission should have worked the first time
)We already have the technology to do so today - as well as a plethora of effective air-to-ground munitions that we don't in-game. I was certainly disappointed when I discovered that in the Odyssey Alpha...
Edit: Added clarification regarding an implicit assumption I made and forgot to mention (bottomless magazines).
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I am just getting tired, wont even let missions be turned in. Anyone else seen this issue and know a fix?
One of the times this happened to me, I had to turn in some random fine first before I was able to hand in the missions. It's a very rare bug though, at least for me.
Even non engineered small ship is weapon of mass destruction against soldiers, just single missile launcher is fastest way to do most ground missions, unless you run into anti ship turrets and goliats, those are actully dengerous to even engineered ship if you loiter in one place for too long
I might be reaching here but my 9mm can put a hole through sheet metal but only take the paint off metal. But seriously, 3 engineered beams can't bust a ships shields in 5 seconds least of all the hull, but you are giving stats that a handheld gun of ANY kind can put out ANY type of damage that of a ships weapons?
Mind you the weapons on a ship are in fact 3-10 time larger than an actual person? Does this not defy the point of a size matters?
Let us take a 20cm AP cannon on a Destroyer and say it has the same amount of damage as a .50cal AP?
So a ships Railgun can damage other ships, of course, but that .50cal (per say) can do the same or more damage to a ship than the Railgun?
That's just stupid.
Stats on ship weapons and stats on handheld weapons should be completely separated as handheld weapons shouldn't do crap to a ship!
A persons handheld versus an Abrams cannon? Should the person have ANY chance to do anything but scratch the paint?
Handheld weapons stats versus Ship weapons stats are just flat out STUPID as is.
Why the hell would anyone think handheld weapons should do anything to a ship but scratch it?
Mind you the weapons on a ship are in fact 3-10 time larger than an actual person? Does this not defy the point of a size matters?
Let us take a 20cm AP cannon on a Destroyer and say it has the same amount of damage as a .50cal AP?
So a ships Railgun can damage other ships, of course, but that .50cal (per say) can do the same or more damage to a ship than the Railgun?
That's just stupid.
Stats on ship weapons and stats on handheld weapons should be completely separated as handheld weapons shouldn't do crap to a ship!
A persons handheld versus an Abrams cannon? Should the person have ANY chance to do anything but scratch the paint?
Handheld weapons stats versus Ship weapons stats are just flat out STUPID as is.
Why the hell would anyone think handheld weapons should do anything to a ship but scratch it?
If you gave me an F-16 parked undefended on a runway and handed me just about any infantry weapon, it would not take me long to render that F-16 unflyable.
Performing the same feat with the same equipment on one that's flying at 65,000 feet would be another matter entirely.
Performing the same feat with the same equipment on one that's flying at 65,000 feet would be another matter entirely.
Maybe for gameplay?