Understanding the Negative Feedback

[almostpilot]

As we all are very well aware... there are a lot of people posting negative threads about ED.... Let me try and explain why I believe that is. But first let me explain what it is not... It is NOT hating for hating sake.... It is not People don't like Elite.... It is Not people want to play other games.... It is not they don't know how to play.... It is NOT people don't have imagination.... What these posts are however, are written by people whom Love the Elite universe and feel they have been let down severely by the lack of game. Yes they may be in awe of the Galaxy simulation... but the game is missing. These people including myself feel duped into buying a game at £40 that was not delivered. And we have every right to be vocal about it!

OP is right and seeing as the developers seem blind and deaf and continue focusing only in "community goals" instead of give the game new contents and variety and hear what is posted here in the foruns, about what the game really need.
Of course, fix the bugs and the AI is very welcome, but it is obligatory.

 

[Rifter]

If you did not read the updates from Frontier during development of ED it was inevitable your expectations were off.

O.k. let me ask you a question. How many games do you think the average gamer buys in say a year? Is it really the gamers responsibility to research whether the game is any good? I would say yes... Is it also reasonable to say that if the player had played all the games in the series that they would expect at least as much content in the new one as the others?? I would also say yes...

 

[Cradle2Grave]

Game needs more stuff and i don't mean lights on planets.

 

[salad]

There is a fundamental difference between successful and good. Pick any track by Kylie Minogue for example....

Just because you don't like it it doesn't mean its bad, people have different tastes you know.

(Of course I'm not talking about Kylie Minogue here )

 

[Krieger]

I had a thought last night and although thinking generally hurts my head here it is. Frontier (the sequel to Elite) was rushed out to suit the publisher. This is a fact that has often been stated by David Braben. Now even though Frontier was rushed out it still had way more content that Elite Dangerous currently does. It had far better missions, more ships, better military progression and yes it also had the full galaxy. So why then did David Braben allow Elite Dangerous to be released when it was so far away from being a cohesive game? It looks like the lessons of the past weren't learnt at all. I really worry about the future of the game and I'd really like to know how many people are playing currently against how many have stopped playing. Elite Dangerous is basically the original Elite with beautiful new graphics at the moment. It really needs more depth, better missions and "life".

I played Frontier Elite 2 for many years and I do not agree with you. Elite Dangerous in its current release has more content than FE2. There is supercruise, investigating USS', wake scanning and interdictions, in-game chat, fighting other players, exploration now earns you credits, fighting NPC ships is much more difficult than in FE2, more equipment, etc.

Oh, I almost forgot, many missions in FE2 did not work... but you could cheat erm... finish them by using the StarDreamer time control at the right moment.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

At kickstarter, my .....
Want to know what that secret is ?

This video best explains it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QWqzRYU0gU

Thank you for posting this video, have some rep! Its totally on the point. For me Elite is not a game at all, its a playground the size of a galaxy with new toys being thrown in with each update. Its only the other players, me and a galaxy. And i do what comes to my mind, not what a game mechanic tells me to do. Games have rules, Elite wants you to break em, do what you want, be yourself... and that is what makes this piece of software so brillant.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I had a thought last night and although thinking generally hurts my head here it is. Frontier (the sequel to Elite) was rushed out to suit the publisher. This is a fact that has often been stated by David Braben. Now even though Frontier was rushed out it still had way more content that Elite Dangerous currently does. It had far better missions, more ships, better military progression and yes it also had the full galaxy. So why then did David Braben allow Elite Dangerous to be released when it was so far away from being a cohesive game? It looks like the lessons of the past weren't learnt at all. I really worry about the future of the game and I'd really like to know how many people are playing currently against how many have stopped playing. Elite Dangerous is basically the original Elite with beautiful new graphics at the moment. It really needs more depth, better missions and "life".

I am being a bit pedantic here, but it was not Frontier which was bugged, it was 1st Encounters (Elite 3)

This was largely fixed eventually (pre-internet so mostly though disks on the covers of magazines).

Content wise Elite is a hybrid of Elite and Frontier, right now it does have less content than Frontier, but most of the stuff missing has been promised in latter DLC (some of it paid).

I am confident much of it will come in time, but equally I suspect, like all the 3 games before, some of the content in my head will sadly remain there.... But then that is purely because the potential of the game is so vast, that it probably is not feasable to get all the potential content in there, certainly not off a £40 sticker price!.

As for negative feedback, I am all for it, so long as it is posted in a constructive manner, and is done with a view to actually trying to understand what elite is and what it is aiming to be.

also, I hate the fact that some people (generally the same people) try their best to sour every single thread with their issues, regardless of if it is remotely relevant or not.

Even a post such as " a positivity thread" when the OP asks people to post things they like about the game and keep the negative stuff out, gets the same people moaning.

 

[Philip Coutts]

I am being a bit pedantic here, but it was not Frontier which was bugged, it was 1st Encounters (Elite 3)

This was largely fixed eventually (pre-internet so mostly though disks on the covers of magazines).

Content wise Elite is a hybrid of Elite and Frontier, right now it does have less content than Frontier, but most of the stuff missing has been promised in latter DLC (some of it paid).

I am confident much of it will come in time, but equally I suspect, like all the 3 games before, some of the content in my head will sadly remain there.... But then that is purely because the potential of the game is so vast, that it probably is not feasable to get all the potential content in there, certainly not off a £40 sticker price!.

As for negative feedback, I am all for it, so long as it is posted in a constructive manner, and is done with a view to actually trying to understand what elite is and what it is aiming to be.

also, I hate the fact that some people (generally the same people) try their best to sour every single thread with their issues, regardless of if it is remotely relevant or not.

Even a post such as " a positivity thread" when the OP asks people to post things they like about the game and keep the negative stuff out, gets the same people moaning.

I take on board the point about Frontier not being bugged but it did have the superb "selling your ship whilst having a passenger" bug that allowed you to make millions and David has always said it was rushed out. My main point was that Frontier had way more content and it was better put together than ED has / is. I would have thought after Frontier and FFE lessons would have been learned. I appreciate that content will come but it may be too late for a lot of players and that is what worries me. We need a big player base to keep this game rolling. If for example Frontier release their first big paid for expansion and no-one buys it how many more expansions will be made? I love ED and I want it to do well but they need to get their act together and get the basic game fixed, specifically stuff like missions needs to be a heck of lot better.

 

[jabokai]

Even a post such as " a positivity thread" when the OP asks people to post things they like about the game and keep the negative stuff out, gets the same people moaning.

To be fair, the thread itself is questionable. For example, nobody in a critical thread posts "please, no positivity here, I'm only looking for the problems and not interested in White Knight or Frontier Defence Force canned responses" and actually asking for mods to enforce the ad-hoc thread rule. Of course, such a thread would be pointless and silly (which is how I view the positivity one but hey ho). And despite it being a "positive" thread there were loads of comments that were entirely negative with regards to comments about other forum members and their opinions, until the mods (to their credit) cleaned them up.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I have no problems with posts where people have complaints and make constructive comments... as long as they do it appropriately, either in a thread where it fits or at least relevant to the discussion in some way.

However, there are several types of complainers that are extremely annoying.

* The entitled one: I paid money for this and i demand....

* The non-stop moaner: Every single post is a complaint post. Doesn't matter how relevant to the topic at hand it is. Nothing constructive ever is given. Just "This game is lacking X". (and these are the drollest of them all really, they should have uninstalled the game a long time ago)

* The comparer: Game X has this! Why doesn't ED? This game sucks! (Why not go play game X then?)

* The self-important one: I write game reviews and the world will hang on what i write! FD better fix this or else my review will be highly negative.

* The one with many friends/clan: I have a dozen friends waiting for my opinion of this game... OR My clan is waiting for me to let them know if we should move over to this game and play it..... and if the game doesn't get better we will not come/I will tell my friends not to buy.

* The hater: This game is terrible, it sucks. FD must be full of incompetent idiots. Raaageeee!

* The impatient one (aka the Game is not ready one): Why haven't FD implement X, Y, and Z yet?! The game was not ready on release! Its still not ready! Where are my shinies?! FD should prioritize based on my suggestions!

* The I-know-better-than-the-devs one: Choosing P2P was a big mistake! I said months ago they should have used a centralized server! OR Oh that? Its an easy fix! I can't understand why FD haven't fixed it yet! OR This is a terrible game design decision.

* The I'm-only-complaining-because-I-care-about-the game one: Because when you care about the game you make sure the forums are as full of negative posts as possible to make sure the devs really understand how upset you are......

* The I-watched-the-theatrical-trailer one: Oh hells, that damn trailer. Didn't FD realize there are some really really stupid people out there? These complain that the game is nothing like the trailer. I can't decide who should be shot first. Those that fall for marketing or the marketing teams themselves. Perhaps some sort of deathmatch arena should be made and the lot of them be thrown in together.

Now, some of those might be justified in their complaints, but they could just say their piece and be done with it. But the annoying ones are the ones who all have an element of the non-stop-moaner in them. They keep posting the same things over and over, some strangely enough still playing the game (which is bizarre), some saying they will uninstall the game (but then don't?), some who uninstall the game but then still hang around here posting negative comments like they are on a holy crusade to bring down the game. I'm not sure which one is the worst.

Now, would a complainer care to make an equally disparaging post about the white knights?

 

[jabokai]

<snip>

You missed out the most annoying ones - the ones who constantly moan about the moaners, they do nothing but feed the whole machine and keep the very thing they claim to dislike going on far beyond its natural death. I guess they're not so smart though, as they don't seem to realise it.

 

[amigacooke]

There comes a point when complaining becomes attention seeking. By all means make your point but your point does not become more valid the more you say it.

Rep for you sir!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You missed out the most annoying ones - the ones who constantly moan about the moaners, they do nothing but feed the whole machine and keep the very thing they claim to dislike going on far beyond its natural death. I guess they're not so smart though, as they don't seem to realise it.

Oh come on! I'm not going to complain about myself now am I? Ill leave that up to others

 

[Unfluffydave]

As we all are very well aware... there are a lot of people posting negative threads about ED.... Let me try and explain why I believe that is. But first let me explain what it is not... It is NOT hating for hating sake.... It is not People don't like Elite.... It is Not people want to play other games.... It is not they don't know how to play.... It is NOT people don't have imagination.... What these posts are however, are written by people whom Love the Elite universe and feel they have been let down severely by the lack of game. Yes they may be in awe of the Galaxy simulation... but the game is missing. These people including myself feel duped into buying a game at £40 that was not delivered. And we have every right to be vocal about it!

When they finally get round to locking the forum to posters that do not have an active game account then feedback, both positive and negative can be taken seriously. If I wanted I could create a thread and populate it with sock puppet posts as fast as I can create e-mail addresses.

As for the bolded part in your quote, what exactly were you duped with?

 

[Rifter]

I have no problems with posts where people have complaints and make constructive comments... as long as they do it appropriately, either in a thread where it fits or at least relevant to the discussion in some way.However, there are several types of complainers that are extremely annoying.* The entitled one: I paid money for this and i demand....* The non-stop moaner: Every single post is a complaint post. Doesn't matter how relevant to the topic at hand it is. Nothing constructive ever is given. Just "This game is lacking X". (and these are the drollest of them all really, they should have uninstalled the game a long time ago)* The comparer: Game X has this! Why doesn't ED? This game sucks! (Why not go play game X then?)* The self-important one: I write game reviews and the world will hang on what i write! FD better fix this or else my review will be highly negative.* The one with many friends/clan: I have a dozen friends waiting for my opinion of this game... OR My clan is waiting for me to let them know if we should move over to this game and play it..... and if the game doesn't get better we will not come/I will tell my friends not to buy.* The hater: This game is terrible, it sucks. FD must be full of incompetent idiots. Raaageeee!* The impatient one (aka the Game is not ready one): Why haven't FD implement X, Y, and Z yet?! The game was not ready on release! Its still not ready! Where are my shinies?! FD should prioritize based on my suggestions!* The I-know-better-than-the-devs one: Choosing P2P was a big mistake! I said months ago they should have used a centralized server! OR Oh that? Its an easy fix! I can't understand why FD haven't fixed it yet! OR This is a terrible game design decision.* The I'm-only-complaining-because-I-care-about-the game one: Because when you care about the game you make sure the forums are as full of negative posts as possible to make sure the devs really understand how upset you are......* The I-watched-the-theatrical-trailer one: Oh hells, that damn trailer. Didn't FD realize there are some really really stupid people out there? These complain that the game is nothing like the trailer. I can't decide who should be shot first. Those that fall for marketing or the marketing teams themselves. Perhaps some sort of deathmatch arena should be made and the lot of them be thrown in together.Now, some of those might be justified in their complaints, but they could just say their piece and be done with it. But the annoying ones are the ones who all have an element of the non-stop-moaner in them. They keep posting the same things over and over, some strangely enough still playing the game (which is bizarre), some saying they will uninstall the game (but then don't?), some who uninstall the game but then still hang around here posting negative comments like they are on a holy crusade to bring down the game. I'm not sure which one is the worst.Now, would a complainer care to make an equally disparaging post about the white knights?

Those categories are the very reason I chose to make this thread. Because they are what has become the Oh you are this or that...It's all very dismissive... when in all actuality the person posting has taken their time to post on this forum... which surely means they care deeply about the subject no? I might add that the two categories I dislike the most is the Entitled gamer concept... Gamers are entitled to receive the game if they have spent money and they are entitled to feel disappointed about it and they are entitled to say so... the other is the use your imagination category... If there was ever an admission of lack of content it's the 'Oh just use your imagination' crew.

 

[Krieger]

O.k. let me ask you a question. How many games do you think the average gamer buys in say a year? Is it really the gamers responsibility to research whether the game is any good? I would say yes... Is it also reasonable to say that if the player had played all the games in the series that they would expect at least as much content in the new one as the others?? I would also say yes...

But by doing so you made the wrong presumptions. The development process of ED was totally different than with the previous Elite games. That should have alerted you.

As I said in another thread: I played Frontier Elite 2 for many years and I do not agree ED has less content than FE2. There is supercruise, investigating USS', wake scanning and interdictions, in-game chat, fighting other players, exploration now earns you credits, fighting NPC ships is much more difficult than in FE2, there is more equipment, etc. Also many missions in FE2 did not work at all but you could finish them by using the StarDreamer time control at the right moment (aka cheating).

 

[streki]

White Knights FTW.

 

[amigacooke]

I don't suppose there's going to be an ignore thread option for the forum is there?

 

[Rifter]

But by doing so you made the wrong presumptions. The development process of ED was totally different than with the previous Elite games. That should have alerted you.As I said in another thread: I played Frontier Elite 2 for many years and I do not agree ED has less content than FE2. There is supercruise, investigating USS', wake scanning and interdictions, in-game chat, fighting other players, exploration now earns you credits, fighting NPC ships is much more difficult than in FE2, there is more equipment, etc. Also many missions in FE2 did not work at all but you could finish them by using the StarDreamer time control at the right moment (aka cheating).

Different does not equate to more content. I am not stating the FE2 didn't have bugs, all that played it knew that it did... but there is also a difference between buggy content and very little content. I might add that in-game chat is not functioning... and if you think you can earn your credits in exploring, you have a very low expectation on what your bank balance should read after the number of hours you played.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I don't suppose there's going to be an ignore thread option for the forum is there?

And this added what to the discussion? If you want to ignore the thread be my guest, I'm not forcing you to post here. Why post something that adds Zero to the thread topic?

 

[Dbrn47]

Understanding that negative doesn't have to be so negative

As we all are very well aware... there are a lot of people posting negative threads about ED.... Let me try and explain why I believe that is. But first let me explain what it is not... It is NOT hating for hating sake.... It is not People don't like Elite.... It is Not people want to play other games.... It is not they don't know how to play.... It is NOT people don't have imagination.... What these posts are however, are written by people whom Love the Elite universe and feel they have been let down severely by the lack of game. Yes they may be in awe of the Galaxy simulation... but the game is missing. These people including myself feel duped into buying a game at £40 that was not delivered. And we have every right to be vocal about it!

I think you are just spinning your wheels here. I feel as if there are more people that can't handle criticism than those that can, let alone anything that resembles negative. Try posting something that contradicts even one bit in a thread where it's all skittles and rainbows, where everyone is holding hands and blowing smoke up each others rear ends. Especially these days with the younger generation growing up with silly phrases like "haters gon hate". I embrace criticism, negativity, debates... I feel the minority the majority of the time.

However, here is the thing. People will generally accept your perceived negative opinion if you follow simple guidelines to remain as respectable as possible. If you come off as a whiner, forget it, it's done and you might as well abandon your cause. If you don't have a suggestions to fix what you are being negative about, you will be fighting an uphill battle. If you are mentioning something that has already been done to death, you should have quit before you started and used the search function. If you attack the game, the developer or other people in the thread, you will lose and will likely end up with a closed thread plus a warning. I'm sure there are many more things you can do as well to get your opinion across without being blatantly disregarded as a whiner or a hater.

People also need to realize, on both sides, that you are posting your words publicly and you need to be ready to defend your stance and be able to handle criticism yourself. Forums aren't a place where you can just vent and have everyone like what you said. Perceived negativity will almost always be met with more animosity than positivity does, it's just how it is, people don't like negativity. However, people can learn to respect your opinion if you are able to form your ideas into a digestible post that isn't completely destructive.

Question the motive behind your post. Are you looking just to throw a tantrum because you are frustrated? Don't post. Are you looking to bring something to attention and have suggestions on how to improve what you are upset about or just want to bring it to discussion? Take a breath, write it out and then read it, make certain that you don't sound like you are punching your monitor as you type or that you need a binky. If it sounds good, post it. If the first few responses come back with people disregarding you as a whiner, read it again and edit it to be more clear and less whiny.

I think that the majority folks around here are intelligent enough to realize when something is criticism and something is just whining. There will be jerks though, comes with every form of human interaction. There are a lot of posts that just don't warrant a response because they are not constructive and they aren't just criticism, they are just destructive rants from people feeling entitled. They do get a response though, because they are annoying. I think those are the ones that most people are against. I'm against them as well, even if I agree with the main complaint.

No matter how you feel about the game right now, it's clear that Frontier wasn't out to rip us off and people need to stop acting like they are. THAT is what people are fighting against, not constructive criticism.