Understanding the Negative Feedback

[Agony_Aunt]

Sadly, this is probably true. There are things that would have made the game much more enjoyable in the process of doing things, but people will likely be done with doing them by the time the feature was ever properly delivered.

Even more sadly we'll probably end up with standard MMO crap to fill in the blanks - oh well.

Well, that was one way to take what i meant to be a positive post and to turn it into a negative one.

What i mean is that they will add features that either are in the DDA or else something different, depending on what is best for the game, rather than adhering to old ideas just because it was in the DDA when it was written early on during development.

I mean, that is the whole reason behind the Agile development methodology. Its well known that the moment a software project starts, the client starts to change their mind as to what they want, even when the developer is also the client.

And i doubt they will go with the standard MMO fare. Half the complaints on this forums are from people coming from standard MMOs and complaining that ED isn't the same. I mean, look at the Python nerf. If this was a standard MMO then it would be quite a simple equation of bigger = better. FD are breaking the mold here. I think we will see more of the same.

 

[Rifter]

hmm the major flaw in your expectations (and I presume others) is the "Galaxy filled with life" thing. Yeah it would be nice, but hell, games with a much smaller play areas struggle to fill them with life, Elite has an entire galaxy and to fill. IMO an almost impossible task.My personal expectation was...space is huge and full of mainly eff all. Elite has the scale of that perfect IMO.Yeah I'd prefer the Bulletin boards to be better and have better scaled missions. Hopefully that will come.Regarding having an impact on the Galaxy...well have a look at your personal impact in this planet. Unless you are a someone special most people have no real impact on the planet (as individuals). As groups it needs thousands upon thousands (probably 100's of thousands) to make any sort of impact on this planet. The Galaxy is HUGE, one person will not have any impact whatsoever on it.I don't think any sand box style game will ever meet your expectations. A major scripted/storyline based game maybe, but an open game....not a chance IMO. Unless FD can think of a way to embed storylines and missions specific to that storyline...that would indeed be utterly excellent, and probably lead to the game never getting stale, but to finance this those would probably be paid for scenarios.

If you think that it's o.k. to fill a game with emptiness and say it's o.k. cause reality is like that, you have much to learn about what having fun is.

 

[Rifter]

I feel compelled to respond to your statement.....Call it "release" or call it "early access" - its just semantics. You can call it by what ever name makes you happiest. ED is what it is.

How can you say that and keep a straight face.... there are some very serious differences in what would be expected by the customer. If I were to render services to a customer and didn't state that it wouldn't be complete clearly to them before they bought, I would be slammed by the courts faster than you could blink. The Idea of clearly labeling your product / service is not only not new... it's damn common sense! If I had been informed directly before buying the game that I would be buying a bare-bones game and would probably have to pay for future content that should have been in there to begin with... I would not have clicked buy now.

 

[Leper Messiah]

That name and that reference and you expect to get away without getting any rep?

I think not mister. You are so repped!

cheers! classics never die!

Actually, it's not that hard. Just the approach was ... questionable.

For example, I'm sure it would have helped a great deal, if we had a lot more orbital factories.
Also, binding the amount of NPCs to the system population size would have been a smart move.
That way, systems without population actually would have been empty, giving civilized space a much stronger feeling
of "being alive", even when not having too much NPCs hanging around. The difference in perception is crucial here.

The fact that people found traders or other ships hanging around in every system regardless of distance from civilized space
simply destroyed the perception of empty space and made the few NPCs in actually populated systems meaningless.

good points, but the sheer size of the task is immense, the best way would be fine tuned scripting and story based systems, but that would be impossible given the scale of the galaxy (even just the inhabited systems)

Are you really trying to say that Daggerfall had more content than Skyrim!? Not on your nelly!

In terms of what Bethesda had access to regarding power/memory then yes, they crammed more in. Just as Mike Singleton crammed more in with Lords of Midnight then Doomdark's revenge.

Elites game "world" is FAR bigger than the biggest RPG ever. It is by definition going to be mainly empty. I DO see your points to a degree though. I for one would LOVE to see in the game everything you had in you "expectations" list. I just see that as more of a "wishlist" than expectations. To expect that...no wonder you are not happy.

 

[Jezzah]

I was one of the most ardent supporters of this game. Followed it from day one alpha shouted high and mighty about the incredible potential it had and referenced the DDF when folks had questions about how particular features would shape up. I encouraged 15 people to buy in at alpha and beta stages both real life folk and forum life folk. I'm the only one left playing now.

The manner of the DDF and it's apparent legitimacy as a road map was what got me into the game. As various stages progressed it was clear certainly by November last year that the game was going to be little different on release aside from scale as that game I was playing in late alpha. A few features were added that bore no comparison to the DDF. Sadly the Dev posts by various devs started to indicate that the features in the DDF were beyond their scope to deliver. No mentions of what those features were or which ones they could implement.

All I know is this. I've gone from being the most ardent defender of the game especially in the light of Star Citizen and it's process of development to someone who feels ashamed at talking my friends into spending in some cases 100s of pounds for what we have on release with very little coming from FD about what is going to be done about the depth of the game. So as a consequence I'm not talking up this game on the net anymore. Talk sells games more than any review and that's the bit that FD might need to address sooner than later or the ship will sail and Star Citizen will be the game people click on and talk about.

I challenge anyone on here to honestly say that they can recommend this game to friends without the doubt that it might disappoint.

 

[Grymr]

I agree that all the griefing of newbs sucks; when someone shows up in their anaconda to jump a bunch on newbs in sidewinders, they ought to get like 10x bad rep or something.

 

[Vander Mey jr.]

People keep saying this, but there is no evidence to indicate it's true. It's wishful thinking as far as I can tell.

Unfortunately this forum has turned into a toxic cesspit so much that even holding a vote here will most likely not give significant results, because the quietly satisfied players have mostly left already.

I, for one, can't stand this forum for more than five minutes at a time before leaving in disgust. My vote for the game? I am completely satisfied with the game as-is, and excited that there will be yet more awesome to come.

That being said, I'm out of here again. Of everything Elite, the forum is the biggest let-down.

 

[Grymr]

me too; I told all my rl friends and fb friends and talked it up on many gaming venues; sheesh, I am so ashamed and embarrassed now. I am slowly going back to tell them what to really expect

 

[Lustan]

And given - as Frontier have explicitly stated - the game is being moved towards a 'self-financing' state - I'm not expecting it to be radically transformed so yeah - I'm more than a little disappointed.

And this statement if true concerns me the most about the future of this product.

Frontier is a business. All promises they make about future development is based on income they expect to receive. If the kickstarter and sales of the product cash runs below a critical point then all new development ceases. If that cash pot completely empties... game over literally. The servers shutdown and no one can play the game anymore.

And when there is this much dissension about items I also recognize as an issue I definitely think there's a reason to be concerned.

 

[Rifter]

So was I - it was an unfortunate (but apparently necessary) move. Fortunately, refunds have been offered where appropriate.?

Necessary how exactly?

 

[Diwrnach]

I expected to go on a journey that filled me with wonder, to take quests into space, to follow mysteries and to feel I was progressing through a live galaxy. I expected for there to be A.I interaction on bullitin boards, and be able to take people in my ship (charter) to locations. I expected for the galaxy to filled with life, I expected there to be some form of trading tools and not have to land at every station to get to the trading info... I expected that I would be able to interact with the galaxy, that it would react to my actions within it and that to actually mean something. I expected to working towards something that made me feel a part of the game. As is my experience within the game is none of the above.

I think it's fair to say that your expectations are unrealistic. A game can't provide a sense of wonder, you do that yourself and I get that from this game. I'm sorry that you don't. Apart from Thargoids (and tribbles) I don't recall seeing much life in the Elite universe prior to this game that wasn't human and in this game you have real humans to play with for the first time. You can interact with the galaxy and it does react to your actions but remember that you are a very small bag of water with a bit of carbon mixed in and the galaxy is huge, how much influence do you think you have? Again, if you don't feel part of the game then I'm sorry you feel that way, I personally get totally immersed.

 

[Grymr]

. My vote for the game? I am completely satisfied with the game as-is, and excited that there will be yet more awesome to come.

That being said, I'm out of here again. Of everything Elite, the forum is the biggest let-down.

Vander; what are your top three things you like and dislike about this game? Obviously you have played a lot and probably joined the game early on. To people just coming into the game the experience is far different than what you probably experienced.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I'm in for £125. For that price I'll get all future expansion packs for free - i feel like I've got a great deal.

Honestly mate, 2 or 3 years from now we'll all be walking on planets, and flying low and fast though the valleys of some exotic world, hanging out in the spaceport bar and laughing about how we were worried. The time goes quickly....it only seems like 2 minutes since I pledged at KS....it was over 2 years ago.

I'm very optimistic for the future of this game, and I'll buy you that pint in some backstreet Lavian drinking pit one day.

I hope you're right. I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening, but I hope you're right.

And I sure hope he is right, too. But I think he is too optimistic, based on what we have seen thus far. If you compare where we are with where we were a year ago, then we have certainly moved forwards, but hardly leaps and bounds. I expect the development effort for each of those two expansions to be non trivial - at least as big as the effort to get to here from the alpha a year ago. And they have to do those things whilst putting in lots of stuff into the base 'free' upgrades that should have been there before they declared it GA, or very soon after. And all that has to be paid for. Are they going to get enough new players stumping up their ready cash to fund that with negative press and vibes all over the place? So I am worried. I think E: D will still be around in a couple of years, and will be much better, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

 

[Cradle2Grave]

I like the forum at least it has some life in it.

 

[streki]

Necessary how exactly?

Development continues. The galaxy will become increasingly populated with the additional content that you are so concerned with.

An offline version would forever be today's ED. Offline players would never see anything that is added from today onwards.

So FD can either:

1. commit offline players to a forever unchanging, static galaxy.

or

2. split their limited resources and attempt to develop for two separate platforms.

or

3. abandon offline

Did you not read/watch Braben's statements concerning the cancellation ?

 

[tagos]

And this statement if true concerns me the most about the future of this product.

Frontier is a business. All promises they make about future development is based on income they expect to receive. If the kickstarter and sales of the product cash runs below a critical point then all new development ceases. If that cash pot completely empties... game over literally. The servers shutdown and no one can play the game anymore.

And when there is this much dissension about items I also recognize as an issue I definitely think there's a reason to be concerned.

It was in the statement they made concerning recent lay-offs. The have all the current player's money. What I and a lot of people paid for was a sub to DLC as well so we're pretty much irrelevant. What counts now is new money. Although I'm having fun playing the fear I have is that ED is riding a nostalgia tide. It has got away with delivering not very much to people like me who appreciate the nostalgic game-play. But it just isn't delivering a 21st century gaming experience and a lot of would-be purchasers know this.

They maybe, they might be tempted further down the line - but the question is - where is the money coming from to get the game down the line? Bearing in mind this is a Buy To Play game.

 

[Rifter]

I think it's fair to say that your expectations are unrealistic. A game can't provide a sense of wonder, you do that yourself and I get that from this game.

I got that sense when I played Skyrim. And I could look down a mountain and see way off into the distance and know that if I chose to I could go from here to there, but more importantly, it would be fun to do it. you know what... I never got to go there in the end because the game sucked me into some surprises quest or made me care enough about quest that I wanted to go and do it. I had the same wonder feeling when I played GTAV, never ever ever got bored! If looking out into empty space, with little to no reward for doing it is your idea of wonder.... Just sayin.....

 

[Confirmed]

Aaaaaaaand let's not forget the metagame.

Where is that? I do not seem to see it in yonder oblivion.

:*(

 

[streki]

I got that sense when I played Skyrim.

Bethesda is a massive mega corp production house with a game development budget of tens of millions.

Frontier is not. Development with a smaller team, and less money will take a lot longer.

 

[Rifter]

Development continues. The galaxy will become increasingly populated with the additional content that you are so concerned with.An offline version would forever be today's ED. Offline players would never see anything that is added from today onwards.So FD can either:1. commit offline players to a forever unchanging, static galaxy.or2. split their limited resources and attempt to develop for two separate platforms.or3. abandon offlineDid you not read/watch Braben's statements concerning the cancellation ?

Ever heard of updates? Offline mode doesn't require a separate platform at all, and there should be no reason why the galaxy would be static.