Universe Wide Chat... Why Is It Not A Thing?

[wstephenson]

"Go talk to them vs him"...is this definitive as to how FD does it or guess work.

Nobody has published a paper yet on the ED peer-to-peer moment to moment gameplay, but a number of us have been analysing the network traffic and verbose logs since Alpha, and there's a consensus that this is how it is. But here's a thought experiment: Given the types of cheats that have been observed (and fixed), is there an authoritative instance host, or is authority devolved across peers?

It would seem like a lot of unnecessary overhead if FD transmitted all clients in an instance to the peer joining vs just saying "Talk to this guy, he'll tell you about his peers".

Efficiency and reliability are in opposition, and in the connectivity jungle that is the internet, reliability comes first.

The peer to peer topology provides robust multiplayer that in the case of failures, gracefully degrades to single player without interrupting gameplay. Because it's symmetric, it has the desirable properties of simplicity (no need to select an instance host and ensure that their connection is able to support that) and reliability (because if any connection between two peers fails, they just don't see each other, and if a peer leaves the session, the other peers take over authority for its objects).

I do feel like we could keep coming up with more technical issues regarding this but technical issues are just issues that need to be solved.

Of course - I'm not trying to put obstacles in your way, just pointing out that basing ideas on a 'instance leader' model will be different to how ED's networking works.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I did have a long winded reply to this thread but then I found this: http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/lord-of-the-rings-online-and-maintenance-mode.html

Says it all really.

 

[GoodGorilla]

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what people would use the comms for.

In PP most of the pledged players of a power are not organized and do things contrary to the best interest of the power. PZN wants to use global coms to guide these players. I personally don't care for an actual global chat, but I would like to be able to communicate with people pledged to the same power.

 

[Khelder]

In PP most of the pledged players of a power are not organized and do things contrary to the best interest of the power. PZN wants to use global coms to guide these players. I personally don't care for an actual global chat, but I would like to be able to communicate with people pledged to the same power.

That certainly sounds reasonable. Do you think it would work, though? I'm assuming you would need players to join (opt-in) a particular channel or you will get complaints of "I just pledged to this power for the toys, but some guy keeps insisting that I do this or that." Are you thinking IM chat here or more message/post based?

 

[schuesseled]

I for one don't see the point in playing in open when you are unable to communicate with anyone. I like that they added a local broadcast, that is quite nice because trying to message people directly is a non-starter. They teleport away or out run your comms the moment you start typing.

We should have a galactic chat option, what's the point in wings when you can find nobody to be your wingman. I traveled across 150 light years earlier tonight to ask my only 'friend' to join me in a wing, thought it would be best to wait until I was close so he couldn't refuse be based on distance, and he told me to get lost (politely) as he was busy. I have yet to be in a wing.

The only valid arguments against a global chat can be countered by allowing players to turn it off and ignore it.

The developers for planetary annihilation constantly said they would never allow a global chat (despite this being a necessary feature for a multiplayer rts, as it is with any mmo like game) because they would need to moderate, it would be resource intensive, go against their religion, blah, blah blah. They eventually caved and the game improved ten fold. (Warning slight exaggerations present)

 

[Barf Clamhammer]

this is this forever this

I do not understand how to make the smile face when I chat - me brother Myron telld me it weren't only for if you bought the motacons. do the motacons cost extra and why they gonaa change it about all the time?

 

[schuesseled]

Then you'd have to apply that to anything and everything that could utilise communications: real-time economy information, real-time updates of commander positions ( I mean, with instantaneous communication there'd be no reason not to ), a global outfitter with a list of all stations outfitters and their prices, any information you can think of would be required to be streamed to the players ship in real time, thanks to instant comms ... not to mention the myriad of other things that instant communications would fix and thus would eventually have the community asking/begging/demanding for making the game easier, and easier and more boring by the day.

Quite a predicament because allowing one but not the other is inviting trouble.

Yes, science is the easy part.... when the lore allows for it; which, AFAIK, it does not.
If you just go and ignore lore, then as a developer, you've already sealed the fate of your game. I don't foresee FD doing this.

That said, FD don't want galaxy wide chat anyway as they want to avoid the spam that plenty of other games get.

Ignoring my own personal objections, I guarantee you; we get galaxy chat, we'll eventually get service spam (10 bucks and I'll play your cmdr to get you 100 million billion credits) and then what will happen? Oh...right... the forums will be flooded with people crying about the spammers and scammers in the galaxy chat that those self-same aforementioned people originally demanded.

You seem to be functioning under the delusion that a user friendly interface will make the game boring. This is a fallacy.

 

[schuesseled]

See, the beauty of such a system, though, is that YOU don't have to participate. Kinda like the radio in the car - you can turn it on if you want, but you don't have to, if you prefer silence...

Z...

I think this game really needs space radio channels.

 

[Khelder]

You seem to be functioning under the delusion that a user friendly interface will make the game boring. This is a fallacy.

I think the problem would stem from whether the feature would be implemented (if it was) as in-game communication (i.e. how commanders communicate to each other in the galaxy) or as out-of-game communication (i.e. how players chat and coordinate how they want to play the game).

For roleplaying purposes, some people object to instant, galaxy-wide, comms. That's fair enough. What you are talking about can generally be treated as out-of-game communication. You are looking for other players to wing up with. Having more means of player organisation like this would be helpful I think.

 

[Faybs]

In PP most of the pledged players of a power are not organized and do things contrary to the best interest of the power. PZN wants to use global coms to guide these players. I personally don't care for an actual global chat, but I would like to be able to communicate with people pledged to the same power.

Merit grinders are the ones causing most of the problems, and a chat system isn't going to make them stop.

 

[John Adams]

I don't want a global chat, even to coordinate in power play. It won't help as the people going merits do so purely for the payout and perks. Not to support their power. The original proposal without the monetary reward was better. PP is cheapened by the payouts and no global chat can't change that.

 

[Helgarth]

BTW I would like to add something constructive (for once) that is itching me reading the comments...


I won't really argue about adding a chat or not (however I want it to be real)


BUT

Whatever you say, Elite IS a MMO, that's a fact, not a point of view. It's even stated as a MMO by Frontier itself.

The fact that you see it as a Solo game with online element is not bad but because most of the MMO's are a solo game with online elements (big one or not) but IT'S a MMO... I wouldn't maybe have considered buying it if I didn't see the MMO "title" given by Frontier.

+ seeing this as a solo game with online element is not opposite to seeing the chat as online element added.

Anyway I'll now argue about the fact that I'm for it.

Elite seems to be a niche game (like EVE) I agree that there can be sometimes a bit of spam but do you think that it will be as much as a classic MMO? I really don't think so. I remember 1 poil that was gathering the average age of the players. You are all (don't mind that) old fellah guys! And I hope wise enough to not spam the chat! You have to remember that the average age was something like 35. Do you really think that 35 years old guys will spam the chat like preteenagers? I hope not because I really do think that the world would be........ in danger...

Anyway for the immersion part. Well we already have a universe wide chat with friends within the same wing... Why it is impossible to have it wIth others? (sorry if I missed that but went to write this reply after seeing the solo game thing for the 5th time). We have the galnet news that you an read far far far away from home... I don't understand how this would be immersion breaking...

+ I really do think that it can result in good social interactions with new players (I was very happy to find some help on EVE, really!). It can help grouping as wings (and maybe making friend to play after), it can help with the powperplay thing (organise strategies, groups, ...), it can help to trade, to bounty hunt, to defend against griefers (care a griefer at XXX system called XXX!!). I see much good things in that that I found more positive than the immersion breaking thing when we already have universe wide friend chat.


I also agree that it has to be made very well hey! It has to be optional obviously! Like everywhere else...!

EDIT: I do really think that the most of the beautiful things in this game were made by social interactions...

EDIT 2: Well are you sure about the fact that one day we will be able to fly in space exactly like in Elite? I can't... Neither being sure that instant communication like that would NEVER be possible... This game is as surrealist as it's whole content...

I would like to add to this: How about helping people in real time? Making it easier for the fuel rats? Winging someone in danger? Answering to a question that is followed by a "Thank you commander! Fly safe!". Do you really assume that your fellow commanders are 10 years old kids on this game?

 

[Oheck]

The whole reason ANYONE invests in a MMO, is to play and communicate with other human beings who are also enjoying the same game. Proper social tools are crucial to a MMO longevity. I wonder how many of those posting in this thread that dislike this are solo players? Its not something that you would be forced to use or look at. (And i'm talking text chat)

Its evident the game is missing something when you see people having to go back to a forum to see if anyone wants to wing up with them. A piece of the massive multiplayer puzzle is missing.

 

[lenna]

The current in-game communication tools achieve an appropriate level of inter-player communication given the limitations of map instances, the only in-game concern that is perhaps desirable to be addressed is Power Play co-ordination.
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A cross-instance global chat which is what has been asked for by the OP is not required to achieve the co-operative goals stated in this thread so far plus would open the door to other concerns.
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Limited ad-hoc group chat combined with some simple cmdr/group search/listing (perhaps with status) facilities would satisfy the vast majority of the use cases stated thus far.
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Global public chat is a bad idea in any MMO as it generally results in toxic conversations more often than constructive conversations (at least IME).
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Social tools have nothing to do with the longevity of ANY game, it is the gameplay itself that holds my interest - communication over and above that required for gameplay reasons is irrelevant, Universe/Galaxy/World chat has ZERO relevance to general gameplay in something like ED.
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FTR a lot of the people I know who play MMOs tend to prefer to use tools such as Team Speak or Mumble to communicate with their fellow players and generally only use in-game text chat facilities as a fallback.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The whole reason ANYONE invests in a MMO, is to play and communicate with other human beings who are also enjoying the same game. Proper social tools are crucial to a MMO longevity. I wonder how many of those posting in this thread that dislike this are solo players? Its not something that you would be forced to use or look at. (And i'm talking text chat)

Its evident the game is missing something when you see people having to go back to a forum to see if anyone wants to wing up with them. A piece of the massive multiplayer puzzle is missing.

It's not missing for me, keep the chat interactions as they stand, and please no Galaxy chat nonsense. If such nonsense is ever implemented - it must both have a kill switch and be an opt-in. A CMDR BBS thing in stations could be very workable though, and perhaps even power-wide comms accessible from a Galnet-sub would be nice for those engaging in such activities. Anything else - absolutely no thanks. Oh - and I'm an Open player.

 

[Notwyn]

The whole reason ANYONE invests in a MMO, is to play and communicate with other human beings who are also enjoying the same game. Proper social tools are crucial to a MMO longevity. I wonder how many of those posting in this thread that dislike this are solo players? Its not something that you would be forced to use or look at. (And i'm talking text chat)

Its evident the game is missing something when you see people having to go back to a forum to see if anyone wants to wing up with them. A piece of the massive multiplayer puzzle is missing.

In this case you are incorrect. I bought Elite to play Elite not to be social.

I could care less if you chat to anyone or not.

If it can be turned off and have no effect on how I play then carry on.

 

[D6Damager]

I think the way FD could do it without breaking immersion would definitely be to create chat channels that you could either choose or not choose to join (no automatic chat spam). These channels in-game are you simply utilizing the comms system on your ship to tune in to various channels such as general chat, trade, explorer's, looking for wing, etc.

Just so you could find and talk to people who are not already on your friend's list.

People who don't want to use this feature and just enjoy the solitude of their gameplay...don't have to. Those looking for a more social game session have options. Winner winner....

 

[Futuristic Kung Fu]

I just found out something! If you're pointing towards a station in supercruise, you can hear faint radio chatter! You're awesome, FD sound team!

 

[Crook]

FD should introduce it, and sell emoticon packs on the store. They would probably go for it if they could monetise it.... Imagine a ship icon pack....

 

[Cosmo]

I think the way FD could do it without breaking immersion would definitely be to create chat channels that you could either choose or not choose to join (no automatic chat spam). These channels in-game are you simply utilizing the comms system on your ship to tune in to various channels such as general chat, trade, explorer's, looking for wing, etc.

Seconded.