Universe Wide Chat... Why Is It Not A Thing?

[PanicButton]

Ah a global chat....I can see it now...."Cheap credits for sale" spammed 5 times per minute.

For immersion purposes, if I am 40,000LY from the nearest inhabited system I shouldn't be able to talk to anyone.

And yet you get all the important galaxy news without delay

 

[wstephenson]

If I was implementing a global player messaging system for ED, I'd do it (and make it scale) like this:

• Usenet style messaging rather than IM
• Messages' headers contain an origin system and a timestamp
• Messages can be sent 'to all' (bounty notices) or to named CMDRs
• Players pay for messaging by propagation range. Say a "local call" that propagates 50LY is effectively free (100Cr for 160 chars?) Above that radius, broadcast cost increases with the cube of the propagation radius.
• For an additional fee(1000Cr per 100LY), a player can arrange for a message to be transported to a system and broadcast in a limited sphere around given system - useful for messaging your ingame friends when you know where they are
• Broadcast comms cost increases according to load on the system. This prevents rich commanders from DOSing the comm system with galaxywide broadcasts - as the load goes up, the rich commanders become poor commanders faster.
• Messages don't propagate instantly, I'd say 1 minute per 5 LY from origin, further scaled population density in a sector.
• Upon docking or approaching a Nav beacon, the server downloads all recent messages that have 'reached' that system to the player's client.
• Historical messages can be browsed at stations, but this incurs a fee - useful for tracking bounties though
• Sending messages from Nav beacons is much more expensive than at stations

Yes, player groups will use instant, free external comms instead, but they lose out on the immersion of receiving messages in-game.

I used to design and implement instant messaging systems and write usenet and mail clients, the thought of writing a fantasy space comms system makes me giddy.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

There is already system-wide chat. Surely that is enough?

 

[OamodSias]

Ah a global chat....I can see it now...."Cheap credits for sale" spammed 5 times per minute.



And yet you get all the important galaxy news without delay

That needs to be fixed as well, imho.
A simple message in place of the GalNet window would suffice.
[ Error: Out of range of the GalNet server, return to human space for the latest news! ]
[ Click here to view archived news! ]



- - - Updated - - -

If I was implementing a global player messaging system for ED, I'd do it (and make it scale) like this:

• Usenet style messaging rather than IM
• Messages' headers contain an origin system and a timestamp
• Messages can be sent 'to all' (bounty notices) or to named CMDRs
• Players pay for messaging by propagation range. Say a "local call" that propagates 50LY is effectively free (100Cr for 160 chars?) Above that radius, broadcast cost increases with the cube of the propagation radius.
• For an additional fee(1000Cr per 100LY), a player can arrange for a message to be transported to a system and broadcast in a limited sphere around given system - useful for messaging your ingame friends when you know where they are
• Broadcast comms cost increases according to load on the system. This prevents rich commanders from DOSing the comm system with galaxywide broadcasts - as the load goes up, the rich commanders become poor commanders faster.
• Messages don't propagate instantly, I'd say 1 minute per 5 LY from origin, further scaled population density in a sector.
• Upon docking or approaching a Nav beacon, the server downloads all recent messages that have 'reached' that system to the player's client.
• Historical messages can be browsed at stations, but this incurs a fee - useful for tracking bounties though
• Sending messages from Nav beacons is much more expensive than at stations

Yes, player groups will use instant, free external comms instead, but they lose out on the immersion of receiving messages in-game.

I used to design and implement instant messaging systems and write usenet and mail clients, the thought of writing a fantasy space comms system makes me giddy.

This, combined with xondk's similar suggestion ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=178817 ) = winning formula.

You sir, deserve a hug (not from me, human touch makes me uncomfortable ... but definitely from your preferred race/gender/size preferences).

 

[PanicButton]

That needs to be fixed as well, imho.
A simple message in place of the GalNet window would suffice.
[ Error: Out of range of the GalNet server, return to human space for the latest news! ]
[ Click here to view archived news! ]

Yeah, I had an idea about that. As you get further and further from civilized space the galnet arcticles could get scrambled/corrupted more and more, to a degree of becoming unreadable.....before totally losing the signal.


But lets get real. Thing that are discussed in this thread are probably pretty low on the to-do list of the devs (as it should be).

 

[.Stu.]

Your argument is flawed also

Suggests that the "other" MMOs model of chat systems are the only viable ones or they are somehow more correct is what is flawed.

Request the feature by all means, who cares if it optional right? but to request it because "every other MMO has it" is not a valid argument - in my opinion - which is probably flawed too!!

I find the comms in game to be - umm pants really. Too cumbersome to use to chat to a player - how do you reply to a player? Never been able to chat within a reasonable time frame or in a way that did not interrupt me flying the bloody ship. Maybe its my setup, my sticks are mounted on sliding trays under the desk so I'm sitting back a bit from the keyboard.

No point in doing a half hearted chat system though, it should have channels that can be user created and can be joined by many, password protected, profanity filtered, toggleable(is that a word?), hideable/movable/sizable chat area, clicking a player name in chat opens channel to that person - perhaps either voice or text, the list of chat features that everyone has used goes on and on. and I think it should feel like part of the ship UI. Maybe that knee pad could be used, look down to glance at the chat, hit a panel key to bring it up like the nav/radar/systems panels. You could get a low bing for incoming messages (configurable from the chat chanel tab of course so you can turn off the universe bing).

It could be done in a way that actually felt a bit more immersive.

I sit on TS most of the time I am playing and if there is noone in when I am then I am really usually playing alone! I don't mind that. From past experience unless the game it set up just right, the social panel gets used to lure unsuspecting players to a happy party where they are immediately killed by the ppl who invited them - not really very social at all

oh and calling Darkfall Online a "niche" game is like saying a Bentley Continental is a bit pricey, DFO is practically a full time job - if you want to get anywhere that is. I saw friends trying to hop to a bank with ALL their gold on them - daft move I know, but even losing an Anaconda pales to the pillage in DFO. It was fun for a while though.

 

[Winterwalker]

If I was implementing a global player messaging system for ED, I'd do it (and make it scale) like this:

• Usenet style messaging rather than IM
• Messages' headers contain an origin system and a timestamp
• Messages can be sent 'to all' (bounty notices) or to named CMDRs
• Players pay for messaging by propagation range. Say a "local call" that propagates 50LY is effectively free (100Cr for 160 chars?) Above that radius, broadcast cost increases with the cube of the propagation radius.
• For an additional fee(1000Cr per 100LY), a player can arrange for a message to be transported to a system and broadcast in a limited sphere around given system - useful for messaging your ingame friends when you know where they are
• Broadcast comms cost increases according to load on the system. This prevents rich commanders from DOSing the comm system with galaxywide broadcasts - as the load goes up, the rich commanders become poor commanders faster.
• Messages don't propagate instantly, I'd say 1 minute per 5 LY from origin, further scaled population density in a sector.
• Upon docking or approaching a Nav beacon, the server downloads all recent messages that have 'reached' that system to the player's client.
• Historical messages can be browsed at stations, but this incurs a fee - useful for tracking bounties though
• Sending messages from Nav beacons is much more expensive than at stations

Yes, player groups will use instant, free external comms instead, but they lose out on the immersion of receiving messages in-game.

I used to design and implement instant messaging systems and write usenet and mail clients, the thought of writing a fantasy space comms system makes me giddy.

There are some brilliant ideas in here. The idea of lightspeed (limited) propagation of messages, particularly.

 

[KamiruPL]

Galaxy wide chat=feeding ground for trolls. No thanks.

 

[Araviel]

we don't got it because our current community does not want it, and i agree whit allot of the community arguments.
but... this is one of the most common complaints i see in negative reviews on other sites, and i really don't like negative reviews.
and personally i think i'll rather take a little bit of chat spam if it means getting rid of some of those reviews and the stamp we got of being the most unsocial mmo on the market.

 

[OamodSias]

we don't got it because our current community does not want it, and i agree whit allot of the community arguments.
but... this is one of the most common complaints i see in negative reviews on other sites, and i really don't like negative reviews.
and personally i think i'll rather take a little bit of chat spam if it means getting rid of some of those reviews and the stamp we got of being the most unsocial mmo on the market.

We don't have it because FD want to avoid it, they brought this to our attention in 2013 and asked for ideas around player communication because they don't want chat spam.

Reviews are nothing but an individuals personal opinions; they really don't matter - I personally couldn't give a rats bottom what some unknown on some unknown website thinks about this game. The game speaks for itself and if people are turned away by no galaxy chat .. well, boo to them. More space for me.

 

[lenna]

ED is not a true MMO in the sense that WOW, GW2, and Eve are - As I understand it, the underlying architecture is predominantly Peer to Peer with Players grouped in maximum group sizes of 32 players using a relatively simple matching service hosted by FD.
---
Taking GW and GW2 as examples, they have map instance chat (as does ED) but not cross-instance Universe/World chat, there is guild chat but that is not the same thing (and guilds have been ruled out for FD - not the same as player PP factions). Where they differ from ED is that each map instance (or just town instance in the case of GW1) can have hundreds of players.
---
In ED (as with the likes of GW/GW2), you can direct communicate with other players regardless of what instance they are in.
---
My point being, I have yet to encounter a game with a true cross-instance Universe/World wide public chat system.
---
Things I can see perhaps being implemented:-

1. A list of available on-line players (player control of visibility would be required to allow for privacy controls)
2. A form of ad-hoc peer to peer group text comms (c/f Skype/MSN)
3. Perhaps integration with third party text chat services

---
What I don't see ever being done:-

1. Universe wide chat (c/f an IRC Public Chat Room for all logged-in players) hosted by FD
2. FD hosted equivalent of an IRC server with either player or FD configured chat groups/rooms

---
Why I do not see either of the latter two things being done? Server provisions and projected bandwidth costs to FD is likely to be prohibitive on such a scale.

 

[wstephenson]

That needs to be fixed as well, imho.
A simple message in place of the GalNet window would suffice.
[ Error: Out of range of the GalNet server, return to human space for the latest news! ]
[ Click here to view archived news! ]



- - - Updated - - -



This, combined with xondk's similar suggestion ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=178817 ) = winning formula.

You sir, deserve a hug (not from me, human touch makes me uncomfortable ... but definitely from your preferred race/gender/size preferences).

There are some brilliant ideas in here. The idea of lightspeed (limited) propagation of messages, particularly.

Thanks peeps, I did a more detailed proposal for FTL progagation of comms pre-release as a game role, with my Fake Sandro mask on: "Stop the Pigeon!" - Couriers in Elite: Dangerous , but I think the game has probably diverged too far away from being able to do that, and I know more about the scale of the game now.

Which is why I would go for lossy/recent only broadcast system like Twitter, with propagation limits and delays to allow a server side limited view at each system, restricting bandwith requirements on the comms server, and use comms as an ingame money sink to throttle traffic. For further b/w savings, clients in a p2p session could exchange broadcast messages and only fetch unseen messages from the server.

If I had read xondk's post already, I probably wouldn't have posted the above though, good work there.

And OamodSias, I feel the same way about unilateral hugs from random internet people too, no worries .

 

[Araviel]

they brought this to our attention in 2013 and asked for ideas around player communication because they don't want chat spam.

Reviews are nothing but an individuals personal opinions; they really don't matter - I personally couldn't give a rats bottom what some unknown on some unknown website thinks about this game. The game speaks for itself and if people are turned away by no galaxy chat .. well, boo to them. More space for me.

from what i can remember they asked us how they could add it whit out letting it become obnoxious and then we said that we didn't want it at all.

and reviews matter greatly, why do you think people are hyping up that other kickstarter space game and not us?
and your last sentence "well, boo to them. More space for me." i don't even...that makes you sound like you care **** about this game, so why are you even in this thread?

 

[Khelder]

So what's the use case for this chat then? (leaving aside jokes about spam)

 

[Vasious]

So what's the use case for this chat then? (leaving aside jokes about spam)

Grouping/Winging and other means to locate players to fly with, hopefully enhancing the multiplayer side of things, I believe is the intended aim

 

[wstephenson]

Good question:

• offline messaging friends - how're ya doin?, good trade routes, meetup locations, see me in Sothis for the CG
• organizing radio stations/streamers'/buckyball race meetups
• warning about pirates/griefer activity
• bragging about mining finds (could also be a trap!)
• philanthropic gold drops
• advertising ship/module availability
• Minor faction background sim manipulation "Bring down the Red Hand Gang in Orinoco Zeta!"
• player groups and powers could have access to private channels to organize their activity too
• FD's server notices around reboots etc
• Plus all the Bulletin Board content could be delivered via the same interface.

 

[lenna]

Grouping/Winging and other means to locate players to fly with, hopefully enhancing the multiplayer side of things, I believe is the intended aim

That could be achieved with a simple low bandwidth LFG type tool, full-on chat system would not be required.

 

[GoodGorilla]

How about having one, and have the option to turn it off?

 

[Khelder]

• offline messaging friends - how're ya doin?, good trade routes, meetup locations, see me in Sothis for the CG

Offline?

• organizing radio stations/streamers'/buckyball race meetups
• warning about pirates/griefer activity
• bragging about mining finds (could also be a trap!)
• philanthropic gold drops
• advertising ship/module availability
• Minor faction background sim manipulation "Bring down the Red Hand Gang in Orinoco Zeta!"
• player groups and powers could have access to private channels to organize their activity too
• FD's server notices around reboots etc
• Plus all the Bulletin Board content could be delivered via the same interface.

Would most of this (other than the bragging I guess) be better suited to a more bulletin board style system, not fast-paced IM style communication?

Not sure what you mean with the "Minor faction background sim" one.

 

[wstephenson]

Offline?

Would most of this (other than the bragging I guess) be better suited to a more bulletin board style system, not fast-paced IM style communication?

Not sure what you mean with the "Minor faction background sim" one.

My earlier post, that I assumed you were replying to, proposed a (inhabited) galaxy-wide usenet style system. Hence offline and the usecases I proposed.

Minor faction background sim: Use it for coordinating system flipping, as popularized with the CSG in Lugh.