IMPORTANT: Update 1.3.9

[Bitter Jeweler]

I bet it's because of the way they do crowd congestion. Groups behave as one unit in their fluid simulation so maybe splitting them up messes with how that functions and behaves. Hopefully this is something they'll be able to fix down the road.

Early on I f I remember correctly, in an interview with the guy that developed the peep flow system, each group is attached to a particle that flows along the path system. When a group sits on a bench, the particle parks, and the peeps animate in relation to the particle. This caused me some concern, in regards to the ability to break peep groups.

I also noticed that when you change the number of cars on a train, or change the load rules (half/full) you see the peeps in line reorganize themselves possibly to the new rules, or number of seats available. I'm speculating. I have no confirmation that that is what is happening. But that's what I suspect from all the clues. This is why you very frequently have empty seat on ALL rides. The spinning coasters were the biggest tip off. Also when I think you reported the problem when the new Gnarler allowed one two seat car!

What this suggested to me was water slides would be a big problem. Also why we have yet to see flat water rides like the two person swan boars, jet skis, canoes, etc. Two seater chair lifts would be out as well. They would have to be four person gondolas.

When I saw the sneak peek of the Hoax track ride, I was curious how they solved my perceived problem. Interest solution at that! I can image a water slide could work similarly. A group of six would all just get in the slide pipe all at once, and their release would be spaced out, just like the Hoax.

I do wonder if the group particle also gets "attached" to a coaster train, or if it waits at the exit, and something else happens while peeps are riding and then regroup and reattach to the particle. But if that were the case, it would negate my hypothesis.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I would love it if Owen McCarthy could give some insight. He did another great Q&A on the forum during Alpha.

Here is the article:

https://medium.com/@nicholasRodgers...tion-scenarios-in-planet-coaster-9b5743bd805c

 

[Ramm]

So how do they do it with gocarts?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

So how do they do it with gocarts?

Good question! I couldn't remember if a cart was ever left behind empty during the race, and I was going to check when I was checking out how the Hoax ride worked, but I got sidetracked by all the spooky content!

But if there is never and empty car, then that is evidence against my hypothesis!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Well...this answers THAT question!
The next group in line was a group of three.
Geez...My tracks usually run 20 cars and I have NEVER noticed this!

Also interesting with a track with 6 cars...there are NO groups of 5 or 6 peeps in line. 4 Max! Quite a few groups of 5 and 6 on the path though.

Edit: Even with 16 cars, groups of 5 or 6 don't get in line. 4 or less only.

I also spotted Beaker86 and Gregorburns in line LOL!

 

[breezerHOG1]

IMO this proves the "guest brain" was a step backwards as neat as it is to have crowds grouping up, its not a feature I would miss if it was gone, especially if it meant improved frame rates... although the crowd system would make for a great tower defense game [tongue]

 

[Ramm]

Well that is indeed some evidence. Wonder if it would be possible for them to make groups smaller, but then again smaller groups probably means more AI thinking

IMO this proves the "guest brain" was a step backwards as neat as it is to have crowds grouping up, its not a feature I would miss if it was gone, especially if it meant improved frame rates, although the crowd system would make for a great tower defense game [tongue]

Was just thinking the same thing

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

If you read the article, the particle flow system allowed many, many, more quests than they ever had before with less impact on performance. It was a game changer for Frontier. I've had 25,000 peeps in a park. You couldn't do that in past games. Also, the flow system and peep brain are two different systems.

 

[breezerHOG1]

If you read the article, the particle flow system allowed many, many, more quests than they ever had before with less impact on performance. It was a game changer for Frontier. I've had 25,000 peeps in a park. You couldn't do that in past games.

25,000!?! I have not seen/read many people saying they can achieve that. Did you have minimal scenery and 0 fps?

Also, the flow system and peep brain are two different systems.

I don't know how it was programmed, I'm sure it was complicated, but the crowd system is what seems to cause problems with queues and empty cars. From my pov (without knowledge of programming) it seems like the crowd grouping feature is the only change in the system from RCT3. I don't see why we need 25,000 guests, I mean it is cool but after all these years an increase in guests is expected, it just should not prevent other features like having separate exit/entrances. I also read that it is not possible for guests to exit a queue because they cant walk through other guests, but in RCT if a guest entered a queue they could change their mind and leave the queue

 

[TRJTA]

Hi coaster friends!

Just a quick point update from the amazing dev team to fix a few issues that were found upon the Spooky release yesterday! Thanks for your diligent bug reporting and feedback. We're already blown away by what you've been doing with the new Spooky content, so please keep showing off your new creations as well!

[heart]
Bo

Update Notes


Ride/Coaster Bug Fixes and Improvements

• Fixed an issue where the lights in the In-Descent's vents would disappear
• Removed the option to swap coaster trains
  • This feature is not quite ready - we will have more information at Frontier Expo on October 7!

Scenery Bug Fixes

• Fixed some missing geometry that was missing from the Spooky Book Pile

Wow, great to hear that swapping of trains will be a thing for the next update! This will make for a much cleaner coaster build menu (I think)!

 

[NoNameCity]

Since Frontier hasn't shown the ability to break peep groups up for rides (look at the Hoax), I wouldn't get my hopes up for water slides.

Interesting thought, that never accrued to me, might explain then why we have yet to see the "Helter Skelter' then (a staple of any theme park), as that is a 'Single' use ride, be nice to hear a Dev's views on this?

 

[cerealfruitcakes]

25,000!?! I have not seen/read many people saying they can achieve that. Did you have minimal scenery and 0 fps?

*snip*

Oh boy you missed out on the fun during alpha when they quietly unlocked guest count restriction and we noticed they started pouring in. We were all seeing how far we could push it duplicating flat ride after flat ride.
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/7138-Peep-cap-has-increased!-a-lot

I eventually pushed 14,000 before the game crashed. Bitter's park was crazy, I can't even load parks with that amount of guests. I remember loading it at 1fps and then it just crashed a minute later.

Good times [up]

You can still inject quite a bit of guests into your park like this. I have a gold treasure tree hidden under my alpine valley park which brings in a few thousand more guests,

[wacky][big grin]

*snip*
When I saw the sneak peek of the Hoax track ride, I was curious how they solved my perceived problem. Interest solution at that! I can image a water slide could work similarly. A group of six would all just get in the slide pipe all at once, and their release would be spaced out, just like the Hoax.
*snip*

Maybe a loading platform area next to the slide that can hold up to 6 guests and they each take a turn. When the platform empties out the next person/group in line enters and stands around the platform.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Oh boy you missed out on the fun during alpha when they quietly unlocked guest count restriction and we noticed they started pouring in. We were all seeing how far we could push it duplicating flat ride after flat ride.
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/7138-Peep-cap-has-increased!-a-lot

I eventually pushed 14,000 before the game crashed. Bitter's park was crazy, I can't even load parks with that amount of guests. I remember loading it at 1fps and then it just crashed a minute later.

That does not count if you can't pull it off today [wacky]

 

[Kombiice]

Yaas, Frontier Expo!!

 

[treverwarly]

Well...this answers THAT question!
The next group in line was a group of three.
Geez...My tracks usually run 20 cars and I have NEVER noticed this!

Also interesting with a track with 6 cars...there are NO groups of 5 or 6 peeps in line. 4 Max! Quite a few groups of 5 and 6 on the path though.

Edit: Even with 16 cars, groups of 5 or 6 don't get in line. 4 or less only.

I also spotted Beaker86 and Gregorburns in line LOL!

https://i.imgur.com/GwRudFo.jpg

that is a really bummer. but i don't see splitting up groups and the crowd system being mutually exclusive. Breaking groups up for riding should not interfere with the crowd system that much. the first people leaving the attraction could wait at the exit for the rest of the group to finish the ride (would also add some management to the game as you should layout the exits of two-seater attractions with people waiting on benches etc. in mind). It probably gets complicated if the ride breaks down and the group needs to rejoin. but seeing all this "5/6 groups won't go on that ride and "3 or more won't go on that ride" evidence is really scary.

Good obersation and thanks for sharing [heart]

 

[Coastercad]

The game keeps crashing and crashing after the update, anyone else got this problem?

 

[DisneylandFreak]

The game keeps crashing and crashing after the update, anyone else got this problem?

It crashed once on my computer when i started it,but now it runs fine[wink].

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

that is a really bummer. but i don't see splitting up groups and the crowd system being mutually exclusive. Breaking groups up for riding should not interfere with the crowd system that much.

I think it is a big problem. Groups are attached to a "flow" particle. Separating groups would have them each then require their own particle. I think that is the brilliance of the crowd flow system. 20K peeps/5K particles (rough average). If they could split, you would have 20K particles to track and manipulate. To keep them in groups, wouldn't they need to be sub-particles of a group particle? Then you would have 25K flow particles to track.

This is my hypothesis based on the info in the article I posted.

 

[hos]

I think it is a big problem. Groups are attached to a "flow" particle. Separating groups would have them each then require their own particle.

as far as i understand this flow it's rather for the pathes and not for the rides.

if peeps enter a ride queue, their "particle" is in a state of waiting until the ride is over (or broken). imho it shouldn't be a problem (neither performance, nor development) to split up groups inside a ride, if PC is already able to split up groups to let peeps take their own seat. there has to be a routine already to bring group members together when the ride is finished. what's just missing is an additional option for the particle which lets the particle not just wait until the ride is finished but all members of the group are ready to move on. but i come from object orientated programming, no idea how they have developed the backends in PC.

 

[krisj1990]

as far as i understand this flow it's rather for the pathes and not for the rides.

if peeps enter a ride queue, their "particle" is in a state of waiting until the ride is over (or broken). imho it shouldn't be a problem (neither performance, nor development) to split up groups inside a ride, if PC is already able to split up groups to let peeps take their own seat. there has to be a routine already to bring group members together when the ride is finished. what's just missing is an additional option for the particle which lets the particle not just wait until the ride is finished but all members of the group are ready to move on. but i come from object orientated programming, no idea how they have developed the backends in PC.

So, would it be possible to set it so that if the group leader wants to ride a water ride - like a swan pedal boat or the dinghy slide - the group splits up into pairs for the ride? And then, once the ride is over, they kind of 'wait' for the person who had to move to a different boat. Maybe I'm over complicating things, but I had an issue a while ago where people wouldn't ride my log flume ride because I had accidentally set it to the full train option. For some reason, I had a lot of singles/pairs riding and not entire groups.

 

[willhen50]

Too bad we can't just pick up peeps and "drown them" like RCT 1 or 2.