Upgrade my Rift S - what have/would you do?

[CMDR M Kozak]

Hey all,

I rock a 2 year old Rift S headset which I enjoy.
However its not the best of resolutions in todays HMD landscape. I dont -need- an upgrade, but have considering to give it a go once we are into the new year.

But, I have been "away" for too long to really have a finger on the pulse and would love to hear your recommendations to an upgrade.
You can see my system spec in the signature.

One thing to consider is that the costs should be reasonable. So anything like the Quest pro is out of the question.
To give you a reference to measure by, I have been looking at the Quest2 and HP reverb G2... but they are almost just as old as the Rift S. Are there anything "newer"?

Thanks a lot.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i replaced my CV1 with a quest 2 and a reverb G2.
the reverb G2 is a better PCVR headset but it's not a slam dunk. standalone VR is also really nice to have .
however the quest 2 has gone up in price by £100
I like my reverb G2 but it's feeling a little old now imo . the controller tracking is a little "meh" and the lenses have a small sweet spot and the UK has not got the fire sale US prices (if you can get for £350 like in the US then snap it up)

I haven't tried one but if it were me I would be thinking about the pico4 which seems promising. either that or I think I would wait , hopefully quest 3 will be out next year and not be the silly quest pro price.

 

[Arioch]

I went from a Rift CV1 to the Rift S and then to the Quest 2 - and was very pleased with the jump in quality between each.

The screen door effect and godrays have been massively reduced in the Q2 such that it’s now my preferred way to watch films when I’m on my own, which is something I didn’t do with the Rift S. It’s also a bit clearer with a better sweet-spot though I’m just about bang in the middle of the ideal IPD for the headset.

However to echo what MadMike has said, it’s now £100 more than it was so not the easy recommendation it used to be.

I’ve been very tempted by the Pico4 which is cheaper, lighter on the face, has higher resolution screens and pancake lenses, and was really, really tempting me to buy one for PCVR…but I think I’m going to hold on for next year’s Quest 3. This comparison review put me off the Pico - “…the display looks dull and slightly washed out” compared to the Q2, while the Quest Pro has much better contrast and colours than the Q2 (and probably a good indicator for the Q3).

I’d recommend the Q2 if you can get one cheap

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

I went from a Rift CV1 to the Rift S and then to the Quest 2 - and was very pleased with the jump in quality between each.

The screen door effect and godrays have been massively reduced in the Q2 such that it’s now my preferred way to watch films when I’m on my own, which is something I didn’t do with the Rift S. It’s also a bit clearer with a better sweet-spot though I’m just about bang in the middle of the ideal IPD for the headset.

However to echo what MadMike has said, it’s now £100 more than it was so not the easy recommendation it used to be.

I’ve been very tempted by the Pico4 which is cheaper, lighter on the face, has higher resolution screens and pancake lenses, and was really, really tempting me to buy one for PCVR…but I think I’m going to hold on for next year’s Quest 3. This comparison review put me off the Pico - “…the display looks dull and slightly washed out” compared to the Q2, while the Quest Pro has much better contrast and colours than the Q2 (and probably a good indicator for the Q3).

I’d recommend the Q2 if you can get one cheap

Thanks for the reply, also to Mike.

What about the link for Q2. Is there a delay or noticable graphics degradation due to compression?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Thanks for the reply, also to Mike.

What about the link for Q2. Is there a delay or noticable graphics degradation due to compression?

I struggle a bit with the wireless air link, . I have tried the bog standard WiFi on my sky fibre hub as well as my mesh system and neither really did it for me (shame as wireless VR rocks).. that said others seem ok with it so could be a me problem.
so long as you have a good enough cable and a compatible usb3 the wired connection is ok...... but to be completely honest it isn't quite as good as a dedicated display connection. the reverb G2 is visually a superior PCVR headset, better visuals, sound and headmount. it's just the controller's are not as good as touch and the sweet spot is small (and you lose standalone)

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

Pico and Elite is featured her btw.
The thing about Pico (and maybe G2 as well) is the fact that it must require a beefy GFX card. Right?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rInrpCbYG8&ab_channel=TyrielWood-VRTech

 

[aXeL]

Oculus headsets are absolute garbage display quality unfortunately but then I'm used to the G1 and G2 so I'm obviously going to say that ( quietly buying shares in Meta... ). To me now, anything short of an Aero, XTAL or Pimax 8K ( meh ) has an awful display so if you want to use an Oculus headset I would suggest not even trying one of these others because it 'may', like it did for me, set your bar too high for the cheaper headsets. That said, I'm exceptionally grateful to Oculus, without whom, I wouldn't have a VR headset from HP because they wouldn't have joined the market Oculus created.

Also, don't forget, with anything from Oculus you have to install their bloatware because it's bespoke. With WMR headsets you just plug it in and Windows recognises it and you can start using it without any other tooling. Imagine having to install a runtime to use your monitor - Oculus headsets are like that.

Also, it used to be the case ( is it still? ) that Oculus made you pay for stuff that Windows already provides for free to WMR headsets. One of them was pinning windows and other objects into VR apps. E.g. on long missions I watched TV from inside my cockpit. Does Oculus do that for free now or do people still pay for 3rd party tools? Been awhile since I checked.

WMR headsets don't need SteamVR for ED. OpenXR+OpenC give better performance and support things like foveated rendering. Has anyone got this running on Oculus yet? I know it's being worked on but I don't know how far anyone has got.

Are Oculus headsets bad? Not at all, people love them. Especially if they don't know what they're missing.

PICO4 - wait for it.... No display port connector!!! The performance next to the, same resolution, G1/G2 is awful. There's an MSFS comparison vid around somewhere which shows this.

I've heard people say that headsets using base stations are better than inside out tracking headsets, especially for hand controllers - if you use them a lot. I can dead shot animals in SkyrimVR with my bow and arrow so not really sure what people are complaining about.

However.... G1/G2, personally I wouldn't run them on anything lower than my 3090 but that's just me.

 

[CMDR M Kozak]

Oculus headsets are absolute garbage display quality unfortunately but then I'm used to the G1 and G2 so I'm obviously going to say that ( quietly buying shares in Meta... ). To me now, anything short of an Aero, XTAL or Pimax 8K ( meh ) has an awful display so if you want to use an Oculus headset I would suggest not even trying one of these others because it 'may', like it did for me, set your bar too high for the cheaper headsets. That said, I'm exceptionally grateful to Oculus, without whom, I wouldn't have a VR headset from HP because they wouldn't have joined the market Oculus created.

Also, don't forget, with anything from Oculus you have to install their bloatware because it's bespoke. With WMR headsets you just plug it in and Windows recognises it and you can start using it without any other tooling. Imagine having to install a runtime to use your monitor - Oculus headsets are like that.

Also, it used to be the case ( is it still? ) that Oculus made you pay for stuff that Windows already provides for free to WMR headsets. One of them was pinning windows and other objects into VR apps. E.g. on long missions I watched TV from inside my cockpit. Does Oculus do that for free now or do people still pay for 3rd party tools? Been awhile since I checked.

WMR headsets don't need SteamVR for ED. OpenXR+OpenC give better performance and support things like foveated rendering. Has anyone got this running on Oculus yet? I know it's being worked on but I don't know how far anyone has got.

Are Oculus headsets bad? Not at all, people love them. Especially if they don't know what they're missing.

PICO4 - wait for it.... No display port connector!!! The performance next to the, same resolution, G1/G2 is awful. There's an MSFS comparison vid around somewhere which shows this.

I've heard people say that headsets using base stations are better than inside out tracking headsets, especially for hand controllers - if you use them a lot. I can dead shot animals in SkyrimVR with my bow and arrow so not really sure what people are complaining about.

However.... G1/G2, personally I wouldn't run them on anything lower than my 3090 but that's just me.

As for "blotware", I believe the HP still requires the steam client. Which is my mind is the worst piece of software ever created in the history of humanity, but we live with it as its a monopoly.

As for extras, I haver never bought anything other than the Rift from oculus. The game was bought from FDEV in 2014 (not via steam-crap).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

oculus were the 1st to implement window pinning in VR and it is free.
I agree the G2 has a display advantage over the quest 2 but imp it isn't THAT big (I have both)
as for bloatware... on one hand it is a pain that the damn oculus software fires up when am using the G2.
OTOH imo the oculus software dumps all over steam and windows MR from a height, both in terms of user experience and performance (open composite with the g2 closes the gap - and oculus had a hand in open XR that it leverages)

 

[aXeL]

As for "blotware", I believe the HP still requires the steam client. Which is my mind is the worst piece of software ever created in the history of humanity, but we live with it as its a monopoly.

Nope - not using it. Steam is indeed cr@p IMO.

 

[Arioch]

The Pico4 is tempting me again - over on the il-2 forums it’s been getting some good reviews and ED gets a mention too. Although through-the-lens videos should be taken with a grain of salt, the colour & black levels don’t seem massively different, and the almost edge-to-edge clarity would probably compensate… The wallet is twitching!

Edit: ah, sold out on Amazon - there goes my idea of a free-return try out

What about the link for Q2. Is there a delay or noticable graphics degradation due to compression?

I regularly use Link and AirLink and haven’t had any tracking issues - the only game in which I’ve noticed compression artefacts is SkyrimVR via AirLink, in which distant dense foliage can look a bit pixelated.

 

[aXeL]

Maybe go for the PICO4 if you can find one and be our forum guru on it Be good to get feedback from some living with it in ED.

 

[Dragsham]

G2 reverb 3090fe 9900k.
4k 150% steam slider perfect 90fps.
Kk not always... bases it drops but not in combat and I'm on goids atm so fps is everything.. not doing so well but that's for another post.
My point is this. Its gorgeous.
So do it.

 

[aXeL]

Dragsham has shares in HP and I get kickbacks for liking his posts and highlighting what a great VR advocate he is in general

 

[Dragsham]

Dragsham has shares in HP and I get kickbacks for liking his posts and highlighting what a great VR advocate he is in general

Lol! I wish..!
The g2 is the best reasonably priced headset atm. Pimax Varjo etc being too expensive for us mere mortals.

VR advocate?
Yes 100%

 

[DeckerSolo]

Hey all,

I rock a 2 year old Rift S headset which I enjoy.
However its not the best of resolutions in todays HMD landscape. I dont -need- an upgrade, but have considering to give it a go once we are into the new year.

But, I have been "away" for too long to really have a finger on the pulse and would love to hear your recommendations to an upgrade.
You can see my system spec in the signature.

One thing to consider is that the costs should be reasonable. So anything like the Quest pro is out of the question.
To give you a reference to measure by, I have been looking at the Quest2 and HP reverb G2... but they are almost just as old as the Rift S. Are there anything "newer"?

Thanks a lot.

HP Reverb G2 is the way to go, don't worry about its age, its performance doesn't deteriorate with its age.
= Direct DP connection with your GPU, no compressed images like the Quest 2 & Pico 4
= 2160 x 2160 resolution
= Propper over ear headphones
= Variable (not stepped) IPD adjustment
= Comfortable Face mask

 

[Dragsham]

3 mods for the g2

1) a counter weight at the back.
2) new modified cable from Hp.
3) 3d printed face inserts available.

 

[aXeL]

Don't need 3d printed inserts; just buy a Samsung O+ face pad ( come in packs of two ) some velcro tape ( hooks not loops ) and velcro it in where the face insert usually goes. Instant increase in FOV.

I'm considering going even cheaper and using 6mm foam draft excluder or anything foam like I can bend around the edges of the HMD. Any ideas?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Don't need 3d printed inserts; just buy a Samsung O+ face pad ( come in packs of two ) some velcro tape ( hooks not loops ) and velcro it in where the face insert usually goes. Instant increase in FOV.

I'm considering going even cheaper and using 6mm foam draft excluder or anything foam like I can bend around the edges of the HMD. Any ideas?

this is exactly what I did. with the original reverb G2 I would say it's almost an essential mod. apparently the new ones shipping now it's less important as they improved the (almost criminally) wasteful facial insert that mine came with.

so long as you don't cover the mounting points you can still use the actual face plate as well (not that I ever have after initial FOV testing).
with the original faceplate FOV is worse than quest 2 for me and there is obvious wasted screen

with the mod it's slightly bigger fov than quest 2 and it is at the max of the panels (if you really concentrate I can just see the edge of the panel but it's not distracting

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Don't need 3d printed inserts; just buy a Samsung O+ face pad ( come in packs of two ) some velcro tape ( hooks not loops ) and velcro it in where the face insert usually goes. Instant increase in FOV.

I'm considering going even cheaper and using 6mm foam draft excluder or anything foam like I can bend around the edges of the HMD. Any ideas?

Just as a note if one wears glasses: That didn't work for me. I have prescription lenses over my G2's lenses, and my eyelashes kept touching the inserts. Also, when you are that close you can see the edges of the display panels in your periphal view, in some situations (the rotating loading screen for example) you can see the edge shimmering from the refraction. I had a 3D printed interface replacement made, that works very well, and it is cheap and easily replaceable. The stock V1 gasket is very tight and stiff, the V2 one is supposed to be better, but maybe still too tight for european squareheads .

I've gone from the Rift S to a G2, too, shortly after the G2 released (few months). It is a great headset, but challenging for even a beefy PC. To be honest I think Dragsham isn't telling the whole truth, there are alot of scenarios in Elite Odyssey where it will struggle no matter how much horsepower you throw at it (always depending on how your tolerance vs. stuttering and low framerate is). Open space is a low hanging fruit, but in populated areas or areas with lots of volumetric effects you will have problems. But that's primarily ED, not so much your hardware.

Personally, I run my G2 at 70% SteamVR SS (3080Ti on a 5900X, 70% is around 2500x2500 per eye, so slight oversampling over the physical resolution of the panels), and (again, personally) there is little improvement in the center of the view when going beyond that. Increasing the resolution improves the edges, but IMO the sweet spot of the lenses is too small to be worth it. Even at lower resolutions the G2's image is brilliant compared to the Rift S. It has virtually no screen door, and the sound system is much, much better.

If you can get it for cheap it is a no brainer, even if you cannot run it at a higher resolution than you Rift S. It is still orders of magnitude better.