[Video] Griefing : is there a problem?!

[Han Zulu]

yup, agree, it's fun (if you know how to survive)... even have an second account that is open only.

What has happend in DW2 isn't representative of the game in whole. The even became a magnet for attention, then evolved into a battle of moral high ground.

Exactly.

It's funny, until late November, almost nothing in the news about the event, then suddenly it was a boom of news and influx of players (and new ones). I could see it coming miles away before the warnings went out. LOL! So obvious.

Apart from a few tactics, everything looks fine to me... we can't help players that get upset, especially if they play in open, but its understandable if they got upset when ganked in fleetcom. That was taking advantage of unaware targets, with a false scene of security, believing that the groups rules had any sort of authority.... so, they got frustrated and upset, and that became self fuelling, and then we saw some terrible comments from some explorers.

Yup.

Still, the gankers and grifers knew exactly what they where up to, and some wish for such 'over the top' reactions.. then they act as if it 'out of order', taking the moral high ground.

Right. It doesn't bother me the griefing/ganking in game. It bothers me the conflict on forum and everywhere else. So many nasty attitudes. On both sides, of course.

There is no right or wrong here, as far as i can see. Just that different people want different things from the game, and some don't understand why other would want to upset them so much... after all, its just a game

Yup. After all, it's nothing but a game.

 

[Stealthie]

My point is this, lets take Open Only Powerplay. Which means Open At All Time to the same gankers that are ganking DWE2 right now. When you see what's going on with DWE2 and DG2 would you as Frontier be keen to reproduce that?

Even when the majority of players may try to make Open Only Powerplay a success. It only takes a few to make it fail. And we all know these few will try to do just that, because it's what they do.

Exactly this.

how many in-game "events" can you think of?

I can think of 4; DW1, Salome, The Gnosis and DW2.
Three of these events had something in common.
What FDev needs to ask themselves is whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[Havvk]

I have had a handful of friendly post-gank interactions. I really like those ones.

Always happy to chat with someone who is pleasant and doesn't take it personally.

I report anybody I gank if they are friendly about it

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

12000+ people on DW2.

~few dozen people on DG2.

Enough said.

This may indeed point to a healthy eco-system vis a vis predator/prey biomass ratios, and the "predator-prey power law".


But we might even need more explorers based on the DG2 numbers.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Another interesting point regarding infiltration is where some have reported pre-emptively being kicked from PGs because of their reputation (as opposed to the FDev policy in the vid). To me that's a bigger issue as some CMDRs are willing to play by PG rules, despite killing you in Open. I kinda think those players should be allowed in the PG while they keep to the rules, and that banning them for thought-crime is not cool.

Though ofc they could be lying about the bans, if only we had journalists around who could get to the truth

Nice vid though, more spinny Eagle pls!

Some of those were confirmed by people within the Fleetcom PG.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

This may indeed point to a healthy eco-system vis a vis predator/prey biomass ratios, and the "predator-prey power law".


But we might even need more explorers based on the DG2 numbers.

It's also difficult to know the number of active DW2 participants. Most sources I see are tossing around the number signed up as if that was the same thing, and as if all will stay the course. Many probably didn't even start, and others will fall by the wayside as they confront the reality of hundreds of repetitive jumps. Certain parties have an interest in making the expedition seem as large as possible (and this seems fine to me, mostly).

No question however, there's many many more CMDRs on DW2 than DG2, and the point about predator/prey ratios a worthwhile one.

 

[deleteduser]

I've just been in Cubeo earning some Prismatic greatness, and whilst there found a 'Mostly Harmless' CMDR buying himself a T9, presumably for the same reason I did, to deliver the good news around Aisling Duval's domain.

I observed to him that there were 3 'Enemy' CMDRs in system and they would almost certainly wreck his T9, as they had just tried to assassinate my Vulture and a Deadly Corvette.

His reply was:

"Griefers... just block them and you wont see them anymore."

I thought this strange, firstly since he was obviously in Open and obivously participating in the Powerplay, so being interdicted/assaulted/harassed/killed by the enemy isn't 'grief', it's just part of 'the game you bought'.

The whole idea of griefers has reached the point where anyone firing on another CMDR is labelled as a griefer, and that appears to be the starting mindset for new CMDRs. For an online-multiplayer with guns attached, and a multi-faceted narrative that makes very good use of them, this is an incredibly weird situation.

Then there's the 'block button'... who knew? And why don't more of you PvE'ers make use of it instead of filling the forums with the same inane arguments about C&P?

What I think FDev should implement is a forced pledge. This 'No Faction' nonsense simply leaves CMDRs under the false impression that they can ignore the rest of the galaxy and be left to their own devices.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I've just been in Cubeo earning some Prismatic greatness, and whilst there found a 'Mostly Harmless' CMDR buying himself a T9, presumably for the same reason I did, to deliver the good news around Aisling Duval's domain.

I observed to him that there were 3 'Enemy' CMDRs in system and they would almost certainly wreck his T9, as they had just tried to assassinate me in a Vulture and a 'Deadly' CMDR in a Corvette.

His reply was:

"Griefers... just block them and you wont see them anymore."

I thought kind of strange, firstly since he was obviously in Open and obivously participating in the Powerplay, so being interdicted/assaulted/harassed/killed by the enemy isn't 'grief', it's just part of 'the game you bought'.

The whole idea of griefers has reached the point where anyone firing on another CMDR is labelled as a griefer, and that appears to be the starting mindset for new CMDRs, "anyone engaging in PvP is a griefer". For an online-multiplayer with guns attached, and a multi-faceted narrative that makes very good use of them, this is an incredibly weird situation.

Then there's the 'block button'... who knew? And why don't more of you PvE'ers make use of it instead of filling the forums with the same inane arguments about C&P?

I was once accused of being the only Aisling commander in open. Kind of a nice insult-compliment from a dirty fed. But as far as I'm concerned, PP is just a "haul mats in solo" arms race that everyone is doing and everyone loses (if fun is the winning criteria).

That was all of course before I realized who the true rightful ruler of the galaxy is. Z0.

Now that we've brought in the notion of powerplay and what constitutes fair play, this thread should go nicely.

 

[deleteduser]

Now that we've brought in the notion of powerplay and what constitutes fair play, this thread should go nicely.

The sooner this one gets burned to the ground, the sooner someone can start another one!

 

[Alwayslate]

The whole idea of griefers has reached the point where anyone firing on another CMDR is labelled as a griefer, and that appears to be the starting mindset for new CMDRs.

That's where the whole idea of legitimate PVP in Elite goes foul.

 

[Lazuras Poe]

Great video as always Yamik. Entertaining and on point. Thoroughly agree with everything you said.

Mostly.

 

[Tel Prydain]

I hate griefers that hit newer or inexperienced commanders with a blinding passion - but anyone with any amount of experience should know better, and your rebuy is on you.
I think a lot of my issues with ganking could be fixed just by rearranging the start menu. Since it's first on the menu, newer players just assume that open is the proper/default/normal way to play. Being on the bottom, solo looks more like a niche thing.

If I had my way I'd have it: Solo, Open, Private Group. I'm sure that idea probably infuriates the "Open should be the only mode" crew, but it'd mean that new/inexperienced players could have a chance to find their bearings before being subjected to the howling void. Heck, even Open, Solo, Private Group would be somewhat better than the current order.

Actually, the more I think about it - renaming the modes could help. Public, Private, Private Group would help drive in the differences for people.

 

[Asp Explorer]

What I think FDev should implement is a forced pledge. This 'No Faction' nonsense simply leaves CMDRs under the false impression that they can ignore the rest of the galaxy and be left to their own devices.

You would like all CMDR's to be "forced" to sign up with one of the PP factions?

I can see that going well

 

[AP Birdman]

Lol, watching this thread turn into the exact, toxic dumpster fire that Yamiks described in his video. Carebears should take a hint.

 

[AP Birdman]

I hate griefers that hit newer or inexperienced commanders with a blinding passion - but anyone with any amount of experience should know better, and your rebuy is on you.
I think a lot of my issues with ganking could be fixed just by rearranging the start menu. Since it's first on the menu, newer players just assume that open is the proper/default/normal way to play. Being on the bottom, solo looks more like a niche thing.

If I had my way I'd have it: Solo, Open, Private Group. I'm sure that idea probably infuriates the "Open should be the only mode" crew, but it'd mean that new/inexperienced players could have a chance to find their bearings before being subjected to the howling void. Heck, even Open, Solo, Private Group would be somewhat better than the current order.

Actually, the more I think about it - renaming the modes could help. Public, Private, Private Group would help drive in the differences for people.

How am I supposed to know who's new and inexperienced? I got wrecked by a guy who was mostly harmless because it was his second account.

 

[Tel Prydain]

You would like all CMDR's to be "forced" to sign up with one of the PP factions?

I can see that going well

I'm not a fan of PP... but I don't hate that idea. But you'd see 'independent' factions suddenly dominate, with the other aligned factions seen as aggressors.

 

[MacAllister]

This is how you block a player in the Main Menu under Friends and Private Groups.
Search for the Commander Name you wish to block.
Under Other Commanders, select their name and hit Add Friend.
Once sent, select to their again then hit Block Player.
Then select their name one last time to Cancel the Friend Request.
You will need to unfriend them so the matchmaker won't try and put you both in the same instance.

How to block a Player in the Comms Panel.
If you see their name in the Comms Panel you can select it, then select to block them.
This works no matter what type of chat they use, Local or System.
Also if their name appears in the History Tab you can also select their name then select block to block them.
The problem here is they have to be in the same game mode as you are, Open or the same PG.
Once you have blocked someone you need to quit the game and restart it, for it to take effect.
The System Channel allows communication between game modes like Solo, PG's and Open.
So you can block and Open player while you are in Solo or a PG, if they chat in the System channel.

Blocking a player directs the games matchmaker to not put you and the blocked player in the same instance.
Instancing Order.
The Matchmaker will first try to put Friends and those Winged together before all else.
Then those who are Winged together and not Friends.
Then those who are just Friends.
Then those who are not in the Players Friend List.
Those the Player has Blocked will not be put into the same instance.

Here is the video evidence on how blocking works.

Now you have the facts to do what you want with them.

 

[Tel Prydain]

How am I supposed to know who's new and inexperienced? I got wrecked by a guy who was mostly harmless because it was his second account.

That's a fair comment. But I think that anyone experienced can likely pick the difference between a Cobra with gimballed pulse, lackluster shields and no armour, and a secondary account packing rails and military grade armour.
Having said that, if you're not actively prowling for newbies, you're probably alright. And as a rule, seal clubbing now isn't as much of a thing as it was back a few years ago.

(Side note: I'd never consider pirating, PP or opposite sides in a CZ griefing/ganking. Even random attacks in equal ships is pretty alright. When I say griefing, I'm specifically talking about someone swooping in and attacking someone hopelessly outmatched [either because of ship-class or massive engeneering] without any communication and with no in-game reason.)

 

[Shinji Ikari]

If players actually outfitted for survival, and learned how to evade and delay, High Security would have a lot more meaning to them.

As for Anarchy, it means everything. It's where I do most of my PvP piracy, and I certainly prefer Anarchy for a nice gank, as it results in no notoriety, no bounty, and no subsequent interference from NPCs.

High Sec is as meaningful now as it was when I began playing IMO.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

im a role play pirate, bgs and power play player i also do organised pvp but never been a ganker never agreed with it and would never have done it BUT! the explorers on here, reddit and in live streams have been the most toxic, childish cry babies i have ever seen in my 30 years of gaming some of the comments and real life threats i have seen are disgusting you deserve to be ganked purely based on that

you are the reason that a non ganker like myself and many others have now followed distant ganks. iv been out there 2hours now and im on my 6th murder the salt is tastier than i ever though it would be.

Ahhh, we all know that's not the reason why you gank explorers, after all, a minority in a group isn't a representation of the whole group.