[Video] Making money : (Diah)Rhea runs 120+ mil/hour

[Jethzk]

The early small-ship period is great fun and you feel you're making progress relatively quickly, but all too soon each next step, be it in ship or module terms, becomes a tremendous chore. Or it certainly used to be. Thankfully, with these well paying missions the game is back to being rewarding to play, and so I'm back playing - after a very long break as I felt I was getting nowhere very slowly - just my view.



I've long been of the opinion that there is a very vocal forum community who want ED to be a painful to play as possible, spouting 'immersion' etc etc. At the back of my mind I wonder if they are protecting their in-game investment (emotional and hours) and are unhappy that others can make leaps and bounds that they never had access to, or will never confess to using.

I on the other hand merely want to enjoy my very limited play-time. And as has been said innumerable times, broadly speaking how you play doesn't detract from how others play, so stop whining and leave the rest of us out of any invented drama. Ta.

This comes down to work vs fun. If everyone was having fun while playing, they wouldn't care how long it took the other person to do something. However, if we put in hours of WORK instead of fun, it's frustrating to find out that work wasn't needed. FD seems to think grind is content. It's not. Unfortunately that grind all to often presents itself as work and isn't about having fun.

I personally enjoy the game a lot more when I don't have to worry about credits or finding that 1 specific arsenic... I like to go look around and do whatever seems interesting at the time. An open galaxy space game seems perfect for that sort of play. Unfortunately if I want a big ship, it's a lot of WORK to get there. If I want to engineer my ship, it's a lot of WORK to get there. Things like SRV jumping or canyon racing are fun, but it doesn't allow players to progress.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Hi everyone,



With Rhea we wanted to make sure that there is a variety of ways to earn credits in Elite Dangerous, not just one way that everyone would use to make as many credits as possible as fast as possible. Changes had to be made to avoid this being the case.

Well Quince was an example of this for how many months?

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Hi everyone,

As always, thanks for the feedback on the matter. We've passed it on to the developers.

With Rhea we wanted to make sure that there is a variety of ways to earn credits in Elite Dangerous, not just one way that everyone would use to make as many credits as possible as fast as possible. Changes had to be made to avoid this being the case.

We also noticed that people were speculating that we've turned off the 'distance from star' element of rewarding players. This hasn't been changed. If a station is further away from the star we will pay more for the player's time.

It's tough to catch everything before it happens, but in future we'll try to keep you as updated in advance on anything coming up that will change certain elements of gameplay.

The result, however, is that with previously one way to make good amounts of credits there are now zero ways to make good amounts of credits.

 

[Jethzk]

See below from this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/73yhfj/thanks_for_nerfing_passenger_missions_fdev/

I mean, those payouts are nuts. Can anyone offer a technical reason why this is so hard to balance? I realise it is procedural but can't you institute sanity checks that overwrite when procedure goes wrong? Edit: yes no status etc. but still for 22k ly would think would be a couple million minimum.


https://puu.sh/xONXh/5b8c3672b6.png

This is what frusterates me. FD are keen to fix big money, but for years we've been requesting mission balancing and they can't be bothered to do it.

 

[contact]

I dont see anything special here, i do 150-200mil runs in and around sol. It is like most players just do what they read in the forums than experimenting byself. THeres so much stuff possible.

 

[unity100]

I dont see anything special here, i do 150-200mil runs in and around sol. It is like most players just do what they read in the forums than experimenting byself. THeres so much stuff possible.

How long do those runs take?

 

[jonesskill]

I don't know even why we post think in there, frontier already prove they don't listen us.

The majority of the playerbase NEEDS a better way to earn credits, they can see this in the numbers.
But what they do?

Nerf quince. - They ALREADY have limited the data scan missions to 3 stacks, then made you scan 3 times now they force you to scan 1, supercruise(or relog) - Fly 30 KM , scan another (REPEAT). At last remove the stack limit now and make the datapoints spawn at the same time WHEN the player drop in the atmos. (Right now if you fly widouth relog/SC when you reach the outpost/building i'ts nothing there!)

Nerf Passengers.
Nerf Overall mission payments. (WHY, WHY smuggle missions pay LESS than normal cargo!?)
Don't even bother to do something to make trade a viable bussines (7 MI per hour in a Cutter is a BAD JOKE!)

 

[jonesskill]

I don't know even why we post think in there, frontier already prove they don't listen us.

The majority of the playerbase NEEDS a better way to earn credits, they can see this in the numbers.
But what they do?

Nerf quince. - They ALREADY have limited the data scan missions to 3 stacks, then made you scan 3 times now they force you to scan 1, supercruise(or relog) - Fly 30 KM , scan another (REPEAT). At last remove the stack limit now and make the datapoints spawn at the same time WHEN the player drop in the atmos. (Right now if you fly widouth relog/SC when you reach the outpost/building i'ts nothing there!)

Nerf Passengers.
Nerf Overall mission payments. (WHY, WHY smuggle missions pay LESS than normal cargo!?)
Don't even bother to do something to make trade a viable bussines (7 MI per hour in a Cutter is a BAD JOKE!)

Forget to metion: Nerfed the massacre missions too, so now i'ts not viable to maintain a battleship in CZs anymore, you can do more money with less risk in a RES site.

 

[uliando]

We are playing incremental clicker game! Click mission boards, push launch just wait a bit in supercruise till you get to your destination, click buttons and repeat. ELITE CLICKER!

 

[xondk]

I don't know even why we post think in there, frontier already prove they don't listen us.

The majority of the playerbase NEEDS a better way to earn credits, they can see this in the numbers.
But what they do?

Nerf quince. - They ALREADY have limited the data scan missions to 3 stacks, then made you scan 3 times now they force you to scan 1, supercruise(or relog) - Fly 30 KM , scan another (REPEAT). At last remove the stack limit now and make the datapoints spawn at the same time WHEN the player drop in the atmos. (Right now if you fly widouth relog/SC when you reach the outpost/building i'ts nothing there!)

Nerf Passengers.
Nerf Overall mission payments. (WHY, WHY smuggle missions pay LESS than normal cargo!?)
Don't even bother to do something to make trade a viable bussines (7 MI per hour in a Cutter is a BAD JOKE!)

I seriously wonder, what would be proper payout? over what length of time? 120 m/hour seems an insane amount, which means in like 8 hours you can get the most expensive things around? doesn't that seem a bit too fast? what are you going to do with the rest of your time playing? and what of that would be prevented by not having 'the best'?

 

[unity100]

I seriously wonder, what would be proper payout? over what length of time? 120 m/hour seems an insane amount, which means in like 8 hours you can get the most expensive things around? doesn't that seem a bit too fast? what are you going to do with the rest of your time playing? and what of that would be prevented by not having 'the best'?

My current opinion is that 40 mil/hour with excessive repetition in a top tier ship like Conda would be reasonable.

The capabilities per ship power (whatever you measure, weapons, cargo, all overall capability) of a commander should INCREASE with larger ships. NOT decrease to the point of being geometrically more gimped per unit power of ship than how it was before when riding a mid tier ship.

With the logic presented in the elite universe, Supertankers in our world would be less cost-efficient and less profitable per tonnage than small coaster ships to haul cargo, for example.

 

[contact]

I seriously wonder, what would be proper payout? over what length of time? 120 m/hour seems an insane amount, which means in like 8 hours you can get the most expensive things around? doesn't that seem a bit too fast? what are you going to do with the rest of your time playing? and what of that would be prevented by not having 'the best'?

That is maby the biggest problem at all? players always want the best the biggest ect? I personaly only go for what i like to play. BUT i dont want need to grind for cr several month till i can get some ship i like to fly, and heres the problem. I only started to play the game again as i saw a blink of a solution to do some stuff in the game.. But with FD nerv elite player politics it seems i have to deinstall it soon again because its just boring. And there are some players who have a life and work and family (besides unemployed 24/7 Gamers). I dont have 8 hours time to play in one month just as an example.

 

[babelfisch]

I don't know even why we post think in there, frontier already prove they don't listen us.

The majority of the playerbase NEEDS a better way to earn credits, they can see this in the numbers.
But what they do?

Nerf quince. - They ALREADY have limited the data scan missions to 3 stacks, then made you scan 3 times now they force you to scan 1, supercruise(or relog) - Fly 30 KM , scan another (REPEAT). At last remove the stack limit now and make the datapoints spawn at the same time WHEN the player drop in the atmos. (Right now if you fly widouth relog/SC when you reach the outpost/building i'ts nothing there!)

Nerf Passengers.
Nerf Overall mission payments. (WHY, WHY smuggle missions pay LESS than normal cargo!?)
Don't even bother to do something to make trade a viable bussines (7 MI per hour in a Cutter is a BAD JOKE!)

They can see this in which numbers? What are you referring to?

 

[CmdrKull]

My current opinion is that 40 mil/hour with excessive repetition in a top tier ship like Conda would be reasonable.

The capabilities per ship power (whatever you measure, weapons, cargo, all overall capability) of a commander should INCREASE with larger ships. NOT decrease to the point of being geometrically more gimped per unit power of ship than how it was before when riding a mid tier ship.

<b>With the logic presented in the elite universe, Supertankers in our world would be less cost-efficient and less profitable per tonnage than small coaster ships to haul cargo, for example.</b>

That doesn't matter though. There are too many nuances and small variables that are not simulated in Elite to try to do 1:1 real world comparisons, and so there's certain things that as players we have to accept on the basis that "it keeps the game fun". Ship profitability cannot scale the way we're asking for, because it just breaks open the whole economic balance and, even though making a billion credits in a weekend is fun, it's bad for the game in the long run and makes it all less fun for everyone. We could argue that last point into the grave without everyone agreeing, but it does appear that FD doesn't want overnight billionaires And they DO want the game to be fun, so I trust them on that.

40M an hour is a lot of money. It's 2 Cutter rebuys. I don't lose my Cutter twice an hour. Maybe PvP folks do but then the whole "in the real world" comparisons REALLY go out the window.

Maybe PvP rebuys should cost less? Make it a Powerplay or Superpower supplement, lose your ship against "the enemy" and they cover 80% of your insurance. Then let FD come down hard on the easy money so that upgrading to a new ship is still a big deal.


Just my opinion, don't shoot me for it

 

[AtrociKitty]

What about the people who need to rush to a conda or whatever big ship they need in order to be able to do the actual stuff they want to do?.

No, you cannot have an Annaconda just because you "need" it, because Frontier has explicitly referred to the Anaconda as an "end-game" ship. You want to skip to the "end-game" because you have no desire to play Elite as Frontier has designed it. No one "needs" to rush to any ship, you work your way to it by playing the game. Allowing players to easily skip to the end-game eliminates all of the game content that's supposed to get you there. If you're unwilling to progress through a game such as Elite, perhaps you should find something else non progression-based to play. Demanding the best stuff right off-the-bat for anyone just starting the game is simple entitlement.

 

[xondk]

My current opinion is that 40 mil/hour with excessive repetition in a top tier ship like Conda would be reasonable.

The capabilities per ship power (whatever you measure, weapons, cargo, all overall capability) of a commander should INCREASE with larger ships. NOT decrease to the point of being geometrically more gimped per unit power of ship than how it was before when riding a mid tier ship.

With the logic presented in the elite universe, Supertankers in our world would be less cost-efficient and less profitable per tonnage than small coaster ships to haul cargo, for example.

Well does it decrease? I'm not exactly sure I follow that one, bigger ships to things better then most smaller?

That is maby the biggest problem at all? players always want the best the biggest ect? I personaly only go for what i like to play. BUT i dont want need to grind for cr several month till i can get some ship i like to fly, and heres the problem. I only started to play the game again as i saw a blink of a solution to do some stuff in the game.. But with FD nerv elite player politics it seems i have to deinstall it soon again because its just boring. And there are some players who have a life and work and family (besides unemployed 24/7 Gamers). I dont have 8 hours time to play in one month just as an example.

I get that, but at the same time if everyone wants 'the big thing' or the most shiny thing, well what the heck is the point of them then? I get a ton of fun out of flying smaller ships, dunno, I don't have that much time either, I can't play much of late, but I still wouldn't expect the biggest thing in a game I like to be easy to get? why would it be worth getting then? because its big and shiny? :/

 

[contact]

Well does it decrease? I'm not exactly sure I follow that one, bigger ships to things better then most smaller?


I get that, but at the same time if everyone wants 'the big thing' or the most shiny thing, well what the heck is the point of them then? I get a ton of fun out of flying smaller ships, dunno, I don't have that much time either, I can't play much of late, but I still wouldn't expect the biggest thing in a game I like to be easy to get? why would it be worth getting then? because its big and shiny? :/

Does it NEED to be like this? Other games solve this with credit boxes to buy with real dublons so the notime players can have at least a bite of the cake. Anyway for me it looks like FD is try to fight against something thats bad designed and unplanned. The Result is exactly whats happening now.

 

[Dbrn47]

Cheer up chappies! There's still shekels to be made in the galaxy!

[video=youtube;k7_xzAWLv-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7_xzAWLv-g[/video]

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Does it NEED to be like this? Other games solve this with credit boxes to buy with real dublons so the notime players can have at least a bite of the cake. Anyway for me it looks like FD is try to fight against something thats bad designed and unplanned. The Result is exactly whats happening now.

Unleash The Pay-To-Win Kraken!

 

[unity100]

That doesn't matter though. There are too many nuances and small variables that are not simulated in Elite to try to do 1:1 real world comparisons, and so there's certain things that as players we have to accept on the basis that "it keeps the game fun". Ship profitability cannot scale the way we're asking for, because it just breaks open the whole economic balance and, even though making a billion credits in a weekend is fun, it's bad for the game in the long run and makes it all less fun for everyone. We could argue that last point into the grave without everyone agreeing, but it does appear that FD doesn't want overnight billionaires And they DO want the game to be fun, so I trust them on that.

Everyone is ok with compromises from realism due to design constraints and gameplay.

But, things should not be THIS far off.

No, you cannot have an Annaconda just because you "need" it, because Frontier has explicitly referred to the Anaconda as an "end-game" ship.

I have an anaconda already.

WHERE is the 'end game'.

Well does it decrease? I'm not exactly sure I follow that one, bigger ships to things better then most smaller?

Your progress to next ship slows down geometrically as you rise up in ship ranks. This is done by making the efficiency of the ships less in regard to mission payouts, credit gain etc. Many others described this in this thread in the first pages. I shouldnt have to explain it again. Except if you jumped at the butt end of the thread that is...

I get that, but at the same time if everyone wants 'the big thing' or the most shiny thing, well what the heck is the point of them then?

The point is that it is not about the 'eventual end game reward'. Its about needing ships to do stuff.

- You wanted to become a big time trader? You need a big ship to trade. Great. Except it takes 6 months minimum and the efficiency of profit per cargo decreases geometrically.

- You want to participate in powerplay politics? YOu DO need a big ship, regardless of the route you go. Otherwise you will be doing a pimple's worth of effect in politics. The grind up will take years to boot.

- You want to be an explorer/bounty hunter? Well you need a lot of credits for either the different types of ships you need and their components, OR, still a lot of money for one large capable ship and its expensive components and storing them and hauling them around.

In the end you DO need money and/or ship.