[Video] More FIRE buttons are almost a must, especially if you load more than 2 weapon types

[Magic Man]

Can you imagine now a modern jet fighter like the A-10 loaded with different ordnance having to do what you do in 3303? Christ it's beyond ridiculous,

Except, of course, that is pretty much exactly what a "modern jet fighter like the A-10 loaded with different ordnance" does. It has a trigger, a weapons release and weapons select options just like your Elite commander.

Proper pilots, unlike arcade game players, select the weapon they want and fire it - they do not play clarinet on their control stick painting their target with a bit of this and a bit of that. That would just be dumb.

 

[StiTch]

Here we go again. Unfortunately my copypasta response isn't available right now, so please see the below for impromptu clarification.

One way of looking at this: No. Two fire buttons are required for consistency and elegance; to be fair to users of all device types; because FD WANT there to be an aspect of skill to use multiple weapon types.

The other way of looking at this: No.

Take your pick

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Except, of course, that is pretty much exactly what a "modern jet fighter like the A-10 loaded with different ordnance" does. It has a trigger, a weapons release and weapons select options just like your Elite commander.

Proper pilots, unlike arcade game players, select the weapon they want and fire it - they do not play clarinet on their control stick painting their target with a bit of this and a bit of that. That would just be dumb.

The main difference here is that unlike Elite the modern pilot when selecting "A" weapon does not automatically deactivate the other weapons.

And a modern fighter craft has 2 weapon groups simply because it has 1 main weapon and a selector for secondary weapon.

- Primary gun
- Missile/Bomb/Other selector

using an A10 warthog modern fighter craft in comparison would mean that the main rotary vulcan gun is recessed and turned off when switching to Hellfire missile and I cannot even fire it unless i select back to it.

The issue here is more that in order to not deactivate any other weapon we need to move several weapons into ONE group and adding ANOTHER weapon into the OTHER group.

And yet, we can add chaff and heatsinks into weapon groups AND into single keyboard buttons but we cannot do the same for a weapon.
Being able to link a torpedo to a single keybind would be rather sensible instead of having to do weapon juggling.

In our case the weapon groups with Energy/Kinetic as main weapon and then a secondary weapon with Explosive would make sense to have a 3rd weapon group for.

 

[Kaocraft]

So we have a thread about the flight model and one about fire buttons... How about we discuss 3rd person camera as well? Or the Python nerf?

I would like to propose that we re-open the discussion about giving the Fer de Lance it's old powerplant back

 

[Kaocraft]

^^this

2 fire buttons work well for me, using a lot fire groups so I cycle these.
Tbh I have all buttons bound on the stick (Warthog) and would have to rearrange like everything to fit/asign 2 new fire buttons.

Except you wouldn't. Because instead of having to dedicate *six* buttons to trigger1, trigger2, ECM, Chaff, SCB, and heat sinks, you could instead dedicate *four* buttons to trigger 1, trigger2, trigger3, and trigger4; and then assign those specialty modules to the additional triggers on a per-loadout basis.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

I would like to propose that we re-open the discussion about giving the Fer de Lance it's old powerplant back

But to counter that we need to rebalance something else.

I propose to either:

- Increase the base mass of the Anaconda to 500 tonnes base hull mass

Or:

- Reduce the iCouriers shields to a more sensible 130 instead of the base 230 on a tiny 35 tonne ship

Or:

- We reduce the Fer-De-Lance fuel tank by 50% in order to fit the larger powerplant

 

[Crank Larson]

Even with HOTAS switch for the firegroups, swapping becomes clunky when you have to use more than two of them. I usually have two different weapons groups, but it is the utilities that mean I have to set up at least two firegroups. If we could have just the utilities assigned to separate buttons, that would make management a lot simpler for me.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Yup.

I tried to play with an Xbox controller once.. Just once.

I then told my son that I was sorry he had to play on an xbox. I also made fun of him as he was not part of the master (PC) race.
He now throws things at me as I play in VR.

It's good for him, builds character...

 

[Magic Man]

The main difference here is that unlike Elite the modern pilot when selecting "A" weapon does not automatically deactivate the other weapons.

And a modern fighter craft has 2 weapon groups simply because it has 1 main weapon and a selector for secondary weapon.

- Primary gun
- Missile/Bomb/Other selector

Umm, yes, just like in Elite. I keep my main laser combo on 1 and then other weapons on 2 (via different fire groups) just like weapons selection should be.

using an A10 warthog modern fighter craft in comparison would mean that the main rotary vulcan gun is recessed and turned off when switching to Hellfire missile and I cannot even fire it unless i select back to it.

Avenger gun. Not if you keep a constant weapon on 1 and just cycle through the others on 2. Why do want/need to be switching back and fore between so many different weapons combinations. You're shooting an enemy not painting a picture.

And yet, we can add chaff and heatsinks into weapon groups AND into single keyboard buttons but we cannot do the same for a weapon.

Chaff and heatsinks are only really classed as 'weapons' for ease of selection on limited controllers - if you have a stick there is no need to use them in firegroups so this point is moot.

Being able to link a torpedo to a single keybind would be rather sensible instead of having to do weapon juggling.

Not really. It's never a weapon you need to launch instantly and actually something you'd want to keep behind a safety, i.e. purposely selecting it before being able to launch. Perfectly sensible and realistic.

In our case the weapon groups with Energy/Kinetic as main weapon and then a secondary weapon with Explosive would make sense to have a 3rd weapon group for.

You can have as many weapon groups as you want already, you mean fire button.
Not at all because you can have energy on 1, kinetic on 2 in one group. Energy on 1 something else on 2 in another group etc. It's not hard, not complex, makes perfect sense
Just because you can carry a different weapon in each slot doesn't mean that's the intention, you are meant to be flying a sensible combat ship after all, not a kiddies toy with six different weapons at your fingertips to pew pew with.

 

[StiTch]

But to counter that we need to rebalance something else.

I propose to either:

- Increase the base mass of the Anaconda to 500 tonnes base hull mass

Or:

- Reduce the iCouriers shields to a more sensible 130 instead of the base 230 on a tiny 35 tonne ship

Or:

- We reduce the Fer-De-Lance fuel tank by 50% in order to fit the larger powerplant

But if we made those changes, you might have nothing left to say on the forum

I propose all CMDRs are killed the moment we use our FSD. It's only realistic, after all.

 

[Crank Larson]

Both consoles have access to a HOTAS now, so the main technical reason not to implement 4 firebuttons is no more.

Unfortunately that isn't the case. I tried the XBox HOTAS at the Expo, as if I got one it would mean I could use a second account on the XBox (I already bought the game). However, the HOTAS is just a remapping of the controller buttons, which means that you still have to hold buttons down and use direction keys to activate stuff. It is a hugely inferior experience to a properly set up PC HOTAS. I won't be using my Xbox account.

 

[Crank Larson]

Controllers aren't the issue, I play on PC with an XB360 controller and have plenty of spare button combinations for additional fire buttons.

What do you actually have bound? I started playing E: D using my XBox controller on PC. I needed to use the keyboard as well as I couldn't bind all the keys I needed to the controller. I couldn't go back to using a controller now.

 

[Zebaoth]

One fire button for every weapons hardpoint is the bare minimum elite should offer.
So I could launch all 8 missile hardpoints in sequence without having 8 fire groups to switch through.

 

[Magic Man]

One fire button for every weapons hardpoint is the bare minimum elite should offer.
So I could launch all 8 missile hardpoints in sequence without having 8 fire groups to switch through.

Oh god... <facepalm> please tell me you left the /s off that...

 

[Zebaoth]

Oh god... <facepalm> please tell me you left the /s off that...

Why would you assume that wanting to have individual keybinds for all hardpoints should be a product of sarcasm?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

But if we made those changes, you might have nothing left to say on the forum

Oh ye of little faith...

- Revamp powerplay to make it fun ( I think i could write a book about everything they made wrong there )
- Engineers (The RNG hell as a slot machine combined with endless mat collecting)
- The lack of realpolitik and moving major power borders
- Ship balance (large ships far to maneuverable and making turrets fun)
- Weapon balance (really, a millenia in the future and cannon shots only travel at 1400 meters per second and we have 850m/s artillery today and nasa basically have a gauss-gun tech weapon that shoots 8500m/s for experiments)
- C&P and lack of actual criminal careers

I have PLENTY to complain about.

I propose all CMDRs are killed the moment we use our FSD. It's only realistic, after all.

Is it? It's based on the alcubierre drive theory so it might work.

I would like to ramp up G-forces in regular combat though since they are incredibly non-existent right now.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Oh god... <facepalm> please tell me you left the /s off that...

Ripple fire is a thing and having a selection for non-syncronized firing would be nice so that instead of firing two cannon shots at once we shoot one, then the other and back again.

It also reduce the chance of a group of missiles being taken out in the same AOE explosion.

EDIT: But for that all i need is a fire selector switch from Group/Stagger or something similar.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

We have fire groups haven´t we? The fire-group HUD is pretty clean and organized with the two ring sides and the extra outside ring for counter measures.
Adding more buttons and more HUD elements would ruin this, besides being unnecessary.

The only reason asking for more fire buttons would be, that the current system is not fast enough... just relax and enjoy playing the game.

 

[StiTch]

Why would you assume that wanting to have individual keybinds for all hardpoints should be a product of sarcasm?

It's actually quite a good suggestion.

When you have the following setup:

Spoiler

While we're at it, can ED get an additional twenty odd buttons so I can control each thruster on my iCutter independently? I can't see what would go wrong.

Is it? It's based on the alcubierre drive theory so it might work.

And yet no-one has quite yet addressed how to avoid being incinerated by Hawking radiation

I think it's safe to say that realism has no place here, no matter how much FD pretend it's a space sim.

There's plenty to complain about indeed but a couple of ships having unrealistic looking masses is so, so asinine.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

It's actually quite a good suggestion.

When you have the following setup:

Spoiler

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017...Try_this_for_a_work_sp-a-17_1495537209345.jpg

While we're at it, can ED get an additional twenty odd buttons so I can control each thruster on my iCutter independently? I can't see what would go wrong.

I would like it on any weapon with a time to target like Cannons, Plasma Accelerators, rockets, Multi-Cannons so if fighting a fast moving target i can saturate a wider area with shots instead of firing 2-4 weapons at the same spot.

At least so I get a staggered firing sequence with one button press so a selector switch would be nice.