Vindicator Jones Discusses Fundamental Game Improvements

bigity

bigity
Dracaya Tzentchel said:
I think a real boon for piracy would be a complete rebalance of how ship tank currently works.

Right now in PvP the focus is on amping up your shield as high as it will go to survive encounters, but this means that limpets don't really get to be used. Instead the focus should be shifted to armour tanking with the shield acting more akin to a stamina bar for damage. Usually right now if your shield is broken then it's time to just leave the fight because you're pretty much guaranteed to lose at that point.

A shift toward armour as the main tank of the ship with shield being a secondary, rapidly recharged (Relative to right now anyway) source of tank would mean there is more incentive to hatch breaking rather than just straight up killing the target. Give cargo holds a high resistance to ship weapons but a vulnerability to limpets and there's an incentive to bringing limpets to cash in on the goods.

Maybe shields could still be a primary tank on military ships, but I think transport ships really need to emphasise their bulkiness and be armour plated like gigantic security vans.
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Limpets go through shields as of the last patch (2.2)

The problem is - if you do pirate that way, cargo ends up over such vast distances that you can't pick it all up before it decays or fast enough to keep the time/reward ratio even remotely worthwhile.

Also, no punishment system can be added without making crime a worthwhile choice equal to those changes.
 
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Grey Wolfe

Grey Wolfe
Henry Winklerr said:
You also didn't read or didn't comprehend anything I have typed so far. I have not indicated being a PvP player or otherwise. Let me put this IRL terms because you are painting your picture on my canvas. If you roll through Compton, you either have a gun, or a way to not get shot. In Elite, you either have a combat ship, or a ship outfitted good enough to escape. I don't think you should stay and fight if you don't want to, but I do think people should have defenses and stop blaming combat players because they can't read or 'theory craft" ships at all.

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And as Rinzler demonstrated, traders with a brain face no danger either. They just need to think a little and stop being like an obese American. (I am American, it's killing this country. It's really bad.)
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Nope. Didn't say you were any sort of combat junkie at all. What I am saying is that it's not so much about you're personal play style, but what you're advocating in your posts ... again I think we're hitting the same brick wall in terms of clearly differentiating between two combat related play styles. There's the legitimate one that you've briefly described, and the one that abuses the lack of C&P allowing griefers and gankers to take their pleasure in pursuing or bullying others with virtual immunity.

No one has ever said in this thread that they would promote extreme game mechanics that wrap everyone in cotton wool and prevent all greifing or ganking. In a more balanced game those choices would still exist and CMDRs would have the freedom you describe, but they have it with the knowledge that there are more severe consequences - not game breaking, just more severe than they currently are. That's all really.
 
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Zeeman

Zeeman
Oddly, I am reading a lot of heated debate in this thread, when really, what sticks out to me is that what we actually need is a combination of a lot of (if not all) of what is being debated.

We need a C&P system with some teeth, players need to "git gud" (and harden up a touch, in all honesty) at simply setting up a survivable ship, and knowing how to escape... Not to mention a few other ideas that have been tossed up have merit.





Dracaya Tzentchel said:
Pirates all decide to leave the Pilots Federation and create the Pirates Federation. They rate pirates by giving them Doubloons, collect enough Doubloons and you get to put a parrot on your dashboard, collect even more you can raise the jolly roger, collect them all and you get to destroy your FSD by trying to store rum in it.
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Whilst I'm sure this is in jest, I had always thought a "nefarious" ranking system would have been cool. Not quite sure how it would be calculated, but certainly of interest to players if it pops up when scanning a ship.

Z...
 
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Dracaya Tzentchel

Dracaya Tzentchel
Zeeman said:
Whilst I'm sure this is in jest, I had always thought a "nefarious" ranking system would have been cool. Not quite sure how it would be calculated, but certainly of interest to players if it pops up when scanning a ship.

Z...
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Oh it was a joke but it was a joke with a serious suggestion of there being player progression to gain out of piracy.

I mean really an entire piracy economy of things would be a great thing for those players that want it to enjoy. Right now there are pirate outposts all over the place but they don't really behave in much of a noteworthy way different to normal stations. If there was a whole set of pirate outfitting options that you could only buy in those stations and only with a reputation as a pirate then there would be another layer to the reward of being a pirate.

Some outfitting options could include things like 'identity spoofing' which makes you appear on basic scans as another identity, masking your bounty until scanned with a kill warrant scanner. Something like scan-protected cargo holds would be good for smugglers at the expense of cargo space and could be countered by more powerful scanners that have a longer charge time. You could have more weapons options than just Archon Delaine's cytoscrambler, like guns that deal no damage but cause module malfunctions to help catch prey that you intend to hatch break.

There's plenty of room for making the whole crime and punishment side of the game into a much deeper and entertaining experience for the people that want to do their games of 'cops and robbers in space'.

I've joked for a while that I really wish I could attach red and blue lights to the top of my Vulture and make it have a police siren. I'm mostly thinking of EVE's police pursuit Comet when saying that.

MLVP009.gif
 

Grey Wolfe

Grey Wolfe
Dracaya Tzentchel said:
There's plenty of room for making the whole crime and punishment side of the game into a much deeper and entertaining experience for the people that want to do their games of 'cops and robbers in space'.

I've joked for a while that I really wish I could attach red and blue lights to the top of my Vulture and make it have a police siren. I'm mostly thinking of EVE's police pursuit Comet when saying that.
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... I think there was some talk on a live stream quite some time ago about the inclusion of some kind of appropriate 'law enforcement' exterior lighting to help differentiate security ships. Sounds a bit comical but here's some sense in it, particularly in areas of intense combat.
 
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bigity

bigity
Grey Wolfe said:
... I think there was some talk on a live stream quite some time ago about the inclusion of some kind of appropriate 'law enforcement' exterior lighting to help differentiate security ships. Sounds a bit comical but here's some sense in it, particularly in areas of intense combat.
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Cool, targets!
 

edgtheo corinthian

edgtheo corinthian
I know many other people have been saying similar things, but Vindicator Jones summarised them brilliantly. The question isn't just about managing crime & punishment, in my opinion. A functioning karma system could add real gameplay opportunities to Elite. And let's be honest … pretty much all of the best gameplay in E : D is player generated. Look no further than Buckyball races, Distant Worlds and the Fuel Rats. Given the paucity of gameplay opportunities, positive reinforcement for player interaction should be pursued above shiny new mods.
 

bigity

bigity
Grey Wolfe said:
LOL ... now killing cops is another good example of a lack of C&P. Try popping one in RL and see what happens ...
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I hate to break this to ya....this isn't reality. It's a video game. Killing someone in a game doesn't mean you want to kill someone in real life.

Mostly I ignore system authority in the game though - they simply don't really matter outside of high sec.
 

Dracaya Tzentchel

Dracaya Tzentchel
bigity said:
I hate to break this to ya....this isn't reality. It's a video game. Killing someone in a game doesn't mean you want to kill someone in real life.

Mostly I ignore system authority in the game though - they simply don't really matter outside of high sec.
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Even the Imperial and Federal navy are a complete joke when it comes to fighting them... I mean you can cripple a capital ship by causing it to get a bit too toasty.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Zeeman said:
Oddly, I am reading a lot of heated debate in this thread, when really, what sticks out to me is that what we actually need is a combination of a lot of (if not all) of what is being debated.

We need a C&P system with some teeth, players need to "git gud" (and harden up a touch, in all honesty) at simply setting up a survivable ship, and knowing how to escape... Not to mention a few other ideas that have been tossed up have merit.
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I'll just leave this here and bid you all a good night:)
5051892187008.jpg
 

vindicator jones

vindicator jones
jasonbarron said:
I'll just leave this here and bid you all a good night:)
http://724c8ec11924b4643ff4-cbc0e5c64c4e0e6a0ca4e8696c6ef08e.r74.cf3.rackcdn.com/5051892187008.jpg
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I 100% agree wholeheartedly.. Griefers, terrorists, gankers really need to get hard and face the consequences for their actions with an effective crime and punishment system. Facing the challenge of not having their wanted status wiped so easily, and facing more significant threats than poorly armed traders and explorers.. I am so happy you agree with me! ;)
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
vindicator jones said:
I 100% agree wholeheartedly.. Griefers, terrorists, gankers really need to get hard and face the consequences for their actions with an effective crime and punishment system. Facing the challenge of not having their wanted status wiped so easily, and facing more significant threats than poorly armed traders and explorers.. I am so happy you agree with me! ;)
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Nice comeback, VJ. I'll have a suitable reply when I get up in the morning:)
 

Grey Wolfe

Grey Wolfe
vindicator jones said:
I 100% agree wholeheartedly.. Griefers, terrorists, gankers really need to get hard and face the consequences for their actions with an effective crime and punishment system. Facing the challenge of not having their wanted status wiped so easily, and facing more significant threats than poorly armed traders and explorers.. I am so happy you agree with me! ;)
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:) you get a rep gain for that one.
 

lokvette

lokvette
I just watched the vid from SDC , thinking oh here we go an SDC vid, how wrong I was. Learnt so much I diddnt know.

Not saying I'm off to open or anything but there are more than a few good tips in this.

edit: see below ...
 
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