VR - First Person On Foot VR Works in Odyssey

[Melvich]

A HUD in VR is definitely more than a case of 'just throw it on'. That's certainly true.

And the HUD would certainly be just the tip of the iceberg for preparing a marketable VR port.

'Adding X feature takes more dev than you think' is a pretty good rule of thumb for us fans

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It's for reasons like the above, and the very obvious no/low budgeting for VR at the moment (with other EDO travails in the foreground), that I'd recommend we think in terms of 'what could FDev do as fan service' / 'unofficially'. And even if we could convince them to do that, the results would likely be very basic. That's the kind of scenarios we're looking at for at least the next year I'd imagine.

I think it took them more effort to build in the disabling features than it'd take to just add the HUD. Given they did that to hide the fact their engine is borked, I don't think it's too much to ask that they sort this out as they 'optimise' it a bit futher and framerates increase.
I respect you going for the absolute minimum, but aim higher and you may also get that as they cheap out again.

 

[VR Golgot]

I think it took them more effort to build in the disabling features than it'd take to just add the HUD.

It depends what you're expecting.

If you're expecting a playable game (just with classic controls alone, so likely unmarketable in that sense), then no. The work required would definitely be a tonnnnn more work than the 2D screen took.

I just wrote this elsewhere, but it touches on some of the stuff likely lurking behind the 2D screen:

With no changes to the vanilla game, we'd just be a camera near some floating arms and a pair of legs, possibly not even attached to them at all, with UI stuck to our face like unpleasant spiderweb, and a reticule that interacted horribly with objects at different depths, and no other end of horrors.

There's a lot to do there to make that presentable. (And that's ignoring any specific VR optimisation needed etc).

But if you're expecting something hacky, basic and 'unofficial'? Say, where only the worst impediments to play had been tidied up? Such as the UI?

Then I'd say that's possible. If unlikely for now. (But I think we only get that by asking specifically for that. It's not something they can offer us in lieu of a proper product. It's something we have to specifically ask for. A backdoor. A hacky playground, to use at our own risk. That's what my thread is trying to do. Because it seems super clear that budget for anything more official is super far away from being on the cards right now.)

 

[Melvich]

It depends what you're expecting.

If you're expecting a playable game (just with classic controls alone, so likely unmarketable in that sense), then no. The work required would definitely be a tonnnnn more work than the 2D screen took.

I just wrote this elsewhere, but it touches on some of the stuff likely lurking behind the 2D screen:



There's a lot to do there to make that presentable. (And that's ignoring any specific VR optimisation needed etc).

But if you're expecting something hacky, basic and 'unofficial'? Say, where only the worst impediments to play had been tidied up? Such as the UI?

Then I'd say that's possible. If unlikely for now. (But I think we only get that by asking specifically for that. It's not something they can offer us in lieu of a proper product. It's something we have to specifically ask for. A backdoor. A hacky playground, to use at our own risk. That's what my threads trying to do. Because it seems super clear that budget for anything more is so far away from being on the cards right now.)

I understand your point; I just think you're a bit wrong.
I just don't believe it's particularly difficult, expensive or even a lot of work. I don't think this is remotely why they've taken their position
I believe it's purely down to the complete inadequacy of their engine to produce high enough framerates, and they've locked it down because they know it's such a failure.
They're aiming at 4k / 30fps for consoles. Not getting towards 4k/90fps+ for VR or even 4k flatscreen PC users.

 

[VR Golgot]

I just don't believe it's particularly difficult, expensive or even a lot of work. I don't think this is remotely why they've taken their position
I believe it's purely down to the complete inadequacy of their engine to produce high enough framerates

Why not both

 

[Melvich]

Why not both

Optimism

 

[danteuk]

7 years ago FDev were cutting edge on VR - then they stopped caring and trying - Odyssey doesn't even attempt it.
So many games have proved VR on foot can be done well. Lone Echo proved zero g game play very possible and great fun in VR.
FDev - No VR support planned for On foot.

 

[thistle]

you realise you're just assuming it'll be difficult though? no proof for that either, and it doesn't become proof if you say it a lot

I wasn't presenting proof it would be difficult. I even said, and I quote, it "may not be too complicated".

My points were 1) as Amy suggested, performance may be the main problem, and 2) it's never as simple as you think, and time and resources would still be involved, taking them away from other things.

The assumption being made in this thread is the "slap a hud on this (not actually VR fps) and it's done!". Yeah ... probably not.

 

[thistle]

7 years ago FDev were cutting edge on VR - then they stopped caring and trying - Odyssey doesn't even attempt it.
So many games have proved VR on foot can be done well. Lone Echo proved zero g game play very possible and great fun in VR.
FDev - No VR support planned for On foot.

Lone Echo was a VR only game wasn't it?

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

What about interacting with the environment? Things like screen terminals, looting, aiming down sights etc?

It looks like the interact function, specifically, is disabled.

Tools work fine, however.

Also, I never noticed before that the stars are reflected off the solar panels at night. See, that's the kind of thing that really brings out the beauty of VR.

Performance-wise, I didn't see ANY difference between the letterbox mode and actual VR. In settlements, they were both in ASW. At a station, I did a quick and dirty check by running up the stairs and seeing how much distortion I got. No noticeable difference between the two modes there, either.

 

[VR Golgot]

(Basically just plink your free camera & camera suite buttons)

So did the freecam controls work for you? (Just tried them again and still no joy in VR for me, for bindings that work in flat).

Or did you just position yourself in the avatar IRL?

 

[Melvich]

I wasn't presenting proof it would be difficult. I even said, and I quote, it "may not be too complicated".

My points were 1) as Amy suggested, performance may be the main problem, and 2) it's never as simple as you think, and time and resources would still be involved, taking them away from other things.

The assumption being made in this thread is the "slap a hud on this (not actually VR fps) and it's done!". Yeah ... probably not.

I never said you claimed to be presenting proof, but I think you're contradicting yourself a little bit. On one hand, it "may not be too complicated" but then "it's never as simple as you think". Right. Cool. Insightful stuff, that.

Anyway, "but it would take more time and resources to make it work than people assume" is just you assuming stuff about time & resources, and you're even making assumptions about what anyone else assumes too, without any real basis for doing so.

Lets face it; You're just guessing, and so is everyone else. My assumtion is it's that even less complicated than you think, and far simpler than you assume.

Lone Echo btw was VR only. If you're looking for an example that's flatscreen & VR, Detached (2017) is good - and it was first person, cross platform, zeroG, and supported controllers.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

So did the freecam controls work for you? (Just tried them again and still no joy in VR for me, for bindings that work in flat).

Or did you just position yourself in the avatar IRL?

So this the part you will probably like best Golgot-

I didn't use any freecam controls. I didn't position myself IRL.

I plinked (quick pressed in succession) Num ., Num 0

That both puts you in camera mode, and places it right at your commander's eyes. Then I hit Num 0 again to enable movement.

That's it. You can freely swap between letterbox and Real VR by doing this. That's how I was testing if you can interact with boxes and such just now, actually. I'm thinking I can use Voice Attack to make a macro and automate all of the camera functions to swap in and out at a voice command or a key press.

 

[VR Golgot]

I plinked (quick pressed in succession) Num ., Num 0

Oh niiiice.

Ok cool, yep if that auto-centres you that's very handy. And yeah some kind of macro definitely sounds like a plan. Nice one

Right, off to play with keybindings for now

 

[Ian Skippy]

games premature, were Odyssey a child being born not a game released, it'd be deemed 4 months premature and in neo-natal intensive care for a few months, but that doesn't preclude the company saying "yes to VR, but as you can see our hands are a bit full, so it will be later we do it", but to shut the door on VR the way they did? words fail me.

They didn't. They said:"Not now, we've got our hands full."

They might do it later, they might not. It depends on how the next few months go. Making big claims now is simply irresponsible.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

if that auto-centres you that's very handy.

That's exactly what it does!

After playing around, I found I like it better to be a bit forward of my CMDR. So my method was simply to roll my chair back (until my view was basically at the back of my CMDR's head) and then reset my view in Oculus. Then I rolled the chair forward and that put me where I wanted to be.

In the new suits you've got this camera thing on your shoulder that stays opaque and it helps get that out of your field of view.

Well peeps, I had planned on taking a flight in MS Flight Simulator today. I think I used all my time tinkering with Elite

 

[thistle]

I never said you claimed to be presenting proof, but I think you're contradicting yourself a little bit. On one hand, it "may not be too complicated" but then "it's never as simple as you think". Right. Cool. Insightful stuff, that.

Both can be true, things are never black and white. It may not be too complicated to do, but that doesn't mean it's simple with no dev time required. That's my point. It's consistently been my point on this topic of VR in first person when we are told it's simple, just do it.

I'm not a game dev though, so I don't know what is required, that's true.

What I do know from working in software development over many years from cobol & unix on dumb terminals (no pc's on programmers desks lol) through to oracle databases and high volume mobile phone billing software ... it's never EVER as simple as users think.

Or managers for that matter.

 

[VR Golgot]

That's exactly what it does!

Nice yep, got it going!

If anyone out there is using a controller: back + right click work well as plinkable pair

In the new suits you've got this camera thing on your shoulder that stays opaque and it helps get that out of your field of view.

Yeah I’m ok with it for now, but keep seeing my cmdr’s eyeballs occasionally . (Something about jet packing seems to mess with the invisible av momentarily. No biggie though.)

Cheers for looking into this

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

So I wasn't happy with plinking. I decided to lock it down to a keypress or a voice command in Voice Attack.

For those curious, this is what I came up with:

This is the important part, really:

(Should be able to just copy and paste this into Voice Attack)
Press NumPad Decimal key and hold for 0.1 seconds and release
Press NumPad 0 key and hold for 0.1 seconds and release
Pause 0.9 seconds
Press NumPad 0 key and hold for 0.1 seconds and release
Press Insert key and hold for 0.1 seconds and release

note this corresponds to my keybinds. You can insert your own keybinds or use mine alongside yours.
The insert key disables my camera HUD.
The Num . key Toggles the Camera Suite, Commander Toggle Camera Suite
The Num 0 key Toggles Camera / Ship Controls Toggle

So now when I hit the ~ key, or I say "VR" it
Plinks (to set the camera to real VR)
Pauses
Unlocks My CMDR Movement
Disables the Camera UI

That gives us real VR on foot, and then a quick swap if we need to interact with something. I believe that ~ will swap both in and out how I've set it up, but I haven't run a mission or anything with it yet.

 

[Viajero]

It depends what you're expecting.

If you're expecting a playable game (just with classic controls alone, so likely unmarketable in that sense), then no. The work required would definitely be a tonnnnn more work than the 2D screen took.

I just wrote this elsewhere, but it touches on some of the stuff likely lurking behind the 2D screen:



There's a lot to do there to make that presentable. (And that's ignoring any specific VR optimisation needed etc).

But if you're expecting something hacky, basic and 'unofficial'? Say, where only the worst impediments to play had been tidied up? Such as the UI?

Then I'd say that's possible. If unlikely for now. (But I think we only get that by asking specifically for that. It's not something they can offer us in lieu of a proper product. It's something we have to specifically ask for. A backdoor. A hacky playground, to use at our own risk. That's what my thread is trying to do. Because it seems super clear that budget for anything more official is super far away from being on the cards right now.)

Yeah I also suspect that in addition to the sheer performance limitations it is indeed also a case of “the best is often enemy of the good” (poor translation from a Spanish old saying but I guess you get the jist).

 

[Arioch]

After playing around, I found I like it better to be a bit forward of my CMDR.

I was having a go with it this morning and that’s what I found too - being just a little bit more forward stops the first-person body from disappearing so I can see my spaceboots leaving spacefootprints once again

One oddity I noticed was that when going back to the virtual flatscreen view, my legs remained invisible. My shadow was still being cast and boot prints still appeared, but I was totally legless until I’d gone back into the SRV and disembarked again.