VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

Having recently purchased my Rift S, I have some experiences with the frustrations of buying one. Amazon made no comment to me, beyond an expected ship date. However, a number of other resellers were pointing the finger at Oculus being tight with supply. Elsewhere, I've heard of shortages of small, high res panels..

And for those claiming that the current situation is an indicator that VR is no longer niche, sorry, but you are dreaming. It's growing, slowly but surely, but it's not mainstream yet. And I don't think it can be considered mainstream until it can be used on a mid-spec gaming PC - I was going to go as far as it running on an APU. Earlier this year, I upgraded my PC, using my usual metric of 'bang for buck' and still spent more than I ever had before.. Ended up with a PC that is, at best, mid-range for a VR box, another strike for the 'mainstream' crowd. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying my Rift S, but it still seems to me to be just a higher res version of the VR kit I played on the 90's, even the controllers biggest advancement seems to be being wireless. Maybe I'm a little cynical too, as I've been hearing that 'VR is the next big thing' since the 90's and well, still waiting.

I still think some around here are discounting the work required for VR. Yes, there is a unified API for it now, a smart move, I remember the First 3D Graphics War and the Great Physics War, I saw how fragmentation went. If FDev move to the unified API, they'd likely need to recode the existing VR code to fit, work that is long since paid for. As for locomotion, Alyx, let's just say I can't find much good about selecting a spot to jump too - immersion breaking much? Nothing quite like 'jumping' and finding yourself on a ledge looking down, the kind of view that makes your lizard brain scream 'Get back!', just love the adrenal flush that can cause.

Sorry Kelstar - this is going to turn into one of those hold my beer moments...

Noone has ever said VR was not niche, it is still niche, but rapidly gaining traction. More importantly, it has to be recognised that VR is not just a thing used by a couple of dozen players, it's a thing used by tens of thousands of players. It's not just a crazy contraption that a couple of dozen nerds soldered up in their back bedrooms, its a couple of billion dollars a year hardware industry + the software sales. Sony alone has sold over 5 million PSVR headsets, and they are superniche being locked into a console that can only just about run VR properly, and it needing pretty bespoke VR implementations of its titles, whereas PC based VR games benefit from pretty standardised, and rapidly improving interoperability of VR games and VR headsets. Compared to 100 million PS4's it is niche, but five million units is five million units, whether its 95% of a market or 5% of the market.

Take things across to PC, with half a dozen or more major manufacturers mass-producing headsets, and yeah, the number of VR players grows exponentially:
Estimates suggest that in 2019, sales of virtual reality (VR) headsets will reach around seven million units, while augmented reality (AR) headset sales will climb to about 600 thousand. Forecasts project massive growth in both AR and VR headset sales in the coming years, with both technologies expected to sell over 30 million units per year by 2023.
Taken from:
That's a big potential market for a games developer, and well worth trying to tap into it rather than shutting yourself out of it.

As for discounting the work to put VR in elite - use forum search and look up my post in the list of results for All Hail Greg - VR in elite as we have it was put in by one dev in one day. One Dev, One Day, back in the day when VR was bleeding edge and there wasn't the plethora of examples / turtials / documented API's all a bit janky and "not user friendly". Fast forward 7 years, the internet is awash with examples / tutorials / documentation and polished API's to used, so much so that many games are benefiting from VR mods made by players of the game. Examples of which include Alien Isolation and GTA-VR, and some of those mods are opensourced and documented in github, as is the new all encompassing works with every headset open XR api.

Granted there have been a couple of tweaks to elite VR added along the way, like SRV maintain Horizon, option to remove one massive nausea trigger, and yes it's going to take a bit more work to make a polished VR on foot than on the pilots seat, but its not the monumental undertaking many of the opponents to it proclaim it would be. I'm genuinely sick of hearing about how adding VR would "add another years delay to the release date of Odyssey".

If one man for one day can start from scratch and basic only from the pilots seat VR implemented, and that code wasn't lost to the computers of atlantis, it still exists somewhere, as will the Maintain Horizon option for SRV VR, and this is still happening in the COBRA engine* I'm pretty sure a couple of devs put on VR in Odyssey for a week could produce something that would appease most VR players. Sure the resultant implementation might not get them the full fanfare that is heaped on dedicated VR games like Lone Echo, nor would it win them any VR awards in the games industry, but it would be very gratefully received by Elite VR players.

*even if Odyssey moved from the cobra engine to another bought in engine from another software house like say unreal or frostbite or whatever, I reckon you could find a VRmod for a game based on that engine or simply "port" / "migrate" one of the other open sourced games mods, or relatively easily make your own VR implementation using the examples available.
 
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I like the post above and what really bothers me about Frontier and the way they are handling this situation is this.

I've played Vr Elite since launch. Like many other Vr players we spent loads of cash on equipment and the Frontier store buying whatever.
One Dev made Vr possible in a day, Frontier have invested little to none in Vr and have sat back and took our cash for 5 years. Profit off one mans hard work is absolutely huge. Yet they can't handle this update better or actually invest in Vr for once. Its disgusting.

There is no screen interaction where I can push a button, Its the same since launch. There has been zero effort in my opinion. The least they can do is show some respect and comunication.

Easily made millions off us.
 
I like the post above and what really bothers me about Frontier and the way they are handling this situation is this.

I've played Vr Elite since launch. Like many other Vr players we spent loads of cash on equipment and the Frontier store buying whatever.
One Dev made Vr possible in a day, Frontier have invested little to none in Vr and have sat back and took our cash for 5 years. Profit off one mans hard work is absolutely huge. Yet they can't handle this update better or actually invest in Vr for once. Its disgusting.

There is no screen interaction where I can push a button, Its the same since launch. There has been zero effort in my opinion. The least they can do is show some respect and comunication.

Easily made millions off us.
My opinion is Frontier used VR for promotional reasons because ED was an early title to contain it, but they've done very little development on progressing it since then, apart from the odd tweak. The things I hoped they'd include down the line, like a VR keyboard for the Galaxy Map, have never materialised, nor has hand controller support so it's very obvious to me VR has stalled and remained stagnant. I blame Frontier directly for this, as VR for No Man's Sky has been implemented by an indie team of 15 which has controller support and space legs, so they have no excuses apart from taking our money, and not giving a flip about VR users.
 
I like the post above and what really bothers me about Frontier and the way they are handling this situation is this.

I've played Vr Elite since launch. Like many other Vr players we spent loads of cash on equipment and the Frontier store buying whatever.
One Dev made Vr possible in a day, Frontier have invested little to none in Vr and have sat back and took our cash for 5 years. Profit off one mans hard work is absolutely huge. Yet they can't handle this update better or actually invest in Vr for once. Its disgusting.

There is no screen interaction where I can push a button, Its the same since launch. There has been zero effort in my opinion. The least they can do is show some respect and comunication.

Easily made millions off us.
When did Frontier say they were going to add button pushing in VR?
 
People keep pushing the 'Greg did it in a day' line in regards to VR, here's the thing, I don't believe it. Beyond one random, off the cuff comment, there's no actual proof. Why don't I believe it? None of the 4 actual game devs I've asked believe it either. I've worked with Auran/N3V, even had/have some Valve contacts. I've attempted to hawk a game idea to devs/publishers.

Actually, one of the devs I asked did have a suggestion as to how it might be possible to do in a day, but isn't something FDev are ever going to admit to. 'Greg' did it all using code ripped straight from the Oculus provided examples in the SDK, with little to no modification, which would explain why it never got as far as the GalMap and similar.
 
People keep pushing the 'Greg did it in a day' line in regards to VR, here's the thing, I don't believe it. Beyond one random, off the cuff comment, there's no actual proof. Why don't I believe it? None of the 4 actual game devs I've asked believe it either. I've worked with Auran/N3V, even had/have some Valve contacts. I've attempted to hawk a game idea to devs/publishers.

Actually, one of the devs I asked did have a suggestion as to how it might be possible to do in a day, but isn't something FDev are ever going to admit to. 'Greg' did it all using code ripped straight from the Oculus provided examples in the SDK, with little to no modification, which would explain why it never got as far as the GalMap and similar.

The origin of the Greg mythos is an interview with David Braben, and on camera, on record he was saying Greg knocked it out in a day.
09:11 - ...a guy
09:14 - called Greg that he reckoned he could do
09:17 - it within he's initially said 24 hours
09:19 - and he said oh well three days or two
09:21 - but actually within a day he had managed
09:24 - to get it working on oculus rift it was
09:26 - just such a magical experience we
09:28 - thought we'd go for it...
Source: https://youtu.be/vN2BWY872M8?list=PL3Ym79LECwSIkd3OyJEpy_9PwQEuHew2b&t=521


And here's the post I made that I was referring to:
 
The origin of the Greg mythos is an interview with David Braben, and on camera, on record he was saying Greg knocked it out in a day.
09:11 - ...a guy
09:14 - called Greg that he reckoned he could do
09:17 - it within he's initially said 24 hours
09:19 - and he said oh well three days or two
09:21 - but actually within a day he had managed
09:24 - to get it working on oculus rift it was
09:26 - just such a magical experience we
09:28 - thought we'd go for it...
Source: https://youtu.be/vN2BWY872M8?list=PL3Ym79LECwSIkd3OyJEpy_9PwQEuHew2b&t=521


And here's the post I made that I was referring to:

And, for the record, it did make it into galmap and system map, "flying" through the galmap in VR is pretty cool.
 
Getting it working might simply refer to - we could put an HMD on and see in 3D at x point, rather than this is what we delivered.
 
Frontier have invested little to none in Vr and have sat back and took our cash for 5 years. Profit off one mans hard work is absolutely huge. Yet they can't handle this update better or actually invest in Vr for once. Its disgusting.
I love this comment because it's terribly true.
What FDEV did not realized yet is that many of us have been playing their games for years only because of VR.
2.5 years ago I was almost done with the game. I did almost everything I wanted to do and the exploration that was probably one of the most interesting thing to see was at the moment terribily boring to play. I also had zero cosmetics in my account.
Then I bought my Oculus Rift CV1 and the game completely reborn! Since then I spent almost 200 euros in cosmetics and a second account that I used to fly to Beagle Point during last year DW2 expedition.

Most of the money I gave to FDEV is thanks to VR and now they remove it from their roadmaps so easily...

1596617884028.png
 
Anyway a quick OT suggestion:

yesterday I removed some dust from my old Flight Simulator X and installed the VR extension by FlyInside that I bought sometime ago.
Immersion is very good because, as in ED, you can realize the real size of the cockpits which are much smaller than what you would believe. Especially the airliners like the B737.
I strongly suggest this VR extension to anyone that likes flight simulation games. It's also a nice test bench for people waiting for FS2020 to have an idea of what to expect in terms of gameplay.
The best is to play with hotas but touch controllers are compatible too (virtual hands).
I also suggest this to the people that would like to play FS2020 in VR next Autumn (when MS already confirmed that will release the VR support) but will not have enough graphic power to run it smoothly.

FSX is available on Steam (and it's much cheaper than Prepar3D): FSX Steam Edition
FlyInside website is here (you can try the demo before purchase): https://flyinside-fsx.com/
 
Anyway a quick OT suggestion:

yesterday I removed some dust from my old Flight Simulator X and installed the VR extension by FlyInside that I bought sometime ago.
Immersion is very good because, as in ED, you can realize the real size of the cockpits which are much smaller than what you would believe. Especially the airliners like the B737.
I strongly suggest this VR extension to anyone that likes flight simulation games. It's also a nice test bench for people waiting for FS2020 to have an idea of what to expect in terms of gameplay.
The best is to play with hotas but touch controllers are compatible too (virtual hands).
I also suggest this to the people that would like to play FS2020 in VR next Autumn (when MS already confirmed that will release the VR support) but will not have enough graphic power to run it smoothly.

FSX is available on Steam (and it's much cheaper than Prepar3D): FSX Steam Edition
FlyInside website is here (you can try the demo before purchase): https://flyinside-fsx.com/
Thanks for this. I bought FSX on Steam a long time ago (to recreate my original FS98 flight from London City airport to Sydney in a Cessna) but couldn't get into it because I had been spoiled by ED VR. Will investigate this for sure...
 
Can`t comment on FS2020 because of the NDA, but I will say, "it`s the new daddy in the FS World."
About the only thing I have been dissapointed about so far (but for me it is a big thing) is there is no crash or visual damage simulation. I hate that the game just cuts off and say you have crashed
Yes it's a sim and so crashing is not meant to be a thing but if I clip a tree with my landing gear for instance I would rather have to make an emergency landing possibly with no landing gear rather than it just end...
Or what about a goose taking out an engine on take off and having to land successfully.

Or hell just to be crass if I hit a building i wont lie I just want to see an explosion!
 
About the only thing I have been dissapointed about so far (but for me it is a big thing) is there is no crash or visual damage simulation. I hate that the game just cuts off and say you have crashed
Yes it's a sim and so crashing is not meant to be a thing but if I clip a tree with my landing gear for instance I would rather have to make an emergency landing possibly with no landing gear rather than it just end...
Or what about a goose taking out an engine on take off and having to land successfully.

Or hell just to be crass if I hit a building i wont lie I just want to see an explosion!

There are 2 aspects here that needs to be considered. One is the crash simulation and the other one is the failure simulation.

A crash will not generate a failure condition. Crash actually means death in a simulator and in real life too.
On top it's just too complex to make a realistic crash simulation because of the way airplanes are built. So you will end up with a gamey animation anyway.
Also the "real" full motion simulators used in the airlines training centers don't have crash animations. They just show you a red screen or a crash message (see below an example).
In fact the best thing to do in Flight Simulator in general is to deactivate the crash detection at all. It's often problematic when you park near a building because it detects collision even from the distance (in the earlier versions). In fact whenever you installed a 3rd party airport you had to disable crashes to avoid issues when parking at the finger corridors.

What you can simulate instead (and that's the real purpose of a simulator) is the failure of systems. And this is simulated in FS2020.
You can simulate hydraulic or electrical failures, you can also simulate engine failures, which is quite interesting in a twin engine because of the asymmetrical thrust that you need to constantly compensate so this
Or what about a goose taking out an engine on take off and having to land successfully
is definitely possible. I suspect that there will be hand-crafted missions for this as there were some in FSX.
In the previous FS versions it was possible to make failures random by providing a % to the systems reliability. The lower the % the higher the chance of a failure of course.
There were also add-on softwares able to simulate the wear and tear depending on how "smoothly" you flew the airplane and based on this saved data, flight after flight, they could generate failure conditions.
 
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