VR usage across the user base.

I've tried vr and know how awesome it is.. but my setup is dodgy, only running a 10603gb and using psvr with one man drivers.. while it works, they haven't sorted out center drift with it so i don't use it as first choice. If there were other games to play apart from elite on vr (and one unmentionable simulator) id probably not have it packed up.

So no not for me.

The strongest point id like to make is its pretty amazing how elite is probably the best game on vr even today. Haven't tried alyx, but only that would have dethroned elite imo.
As a PSVR owner id like to state that my VR sits around collecting dust. I purchased it for ED, doesnt work on ps4, i have a round 10+ VR titles, none of them were worth what i paid imo except maybe Skyrim and CrisisVRgade. Skyrim's graphics are worse than they were on ps3 and crisisvrgade is a stationary shooter reminiscent of virtua cop. VR would be a lot less niche if mainstream gaming platforms had good games like ED available to them. I bought NMS on sale for less than $20, imo it wasnt worth it. I would love VR to take off but if consoles and console publishers dont take it seriously i cant see how it will.

To be frank, the money i spent on PSVR was a waste imo. I wish id used it to buy almost anything else
 
Simply as not every player launches from steam - Frontier have their own Launcher, as does Oculus (which of course is a VR platform)...
It is even worse using steam statistics for other uses as none of the consoles launch from steam :)
Good point, I never use Steam for anything except the WMR API.
 

Craith

Volunteer Moderator
ED is at the moment the 6th most played VR game on Steam, whereas I guesss it is barely in the top 100 in total numbers, so by definition VR share must be way above 10%. One of these days I will compare the numbers...

it even beats Arizona Sunshine in player count right now, and it is always in this list. I don't even play it on steam myself.
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Guys, they made a spaceship game. The "VR" is a glorified headlook function, these always work well with sim-likes. A FPS is a completely different beast. FD have no experience with shooters and on top of that no experience with proper VR utilisation in a shooter neither. It is unreasonable to expect it with the launch.

You are totally right for FPS.

But drop the VR for the cockpits of your ship and SRV in Odyssey is... very worrying for the futur of VR in this game. Like a betrayal of the VR community.

In fact, I think VR community doesn't care about FPS. But damned !! they drop VR for all in their new engine...

But it's not a drama... Personnaly I will drop ED. That's all. I loved this game when it was a space simulation in a cockpit.
 
VR user here, not using steam to launch the game but steam knows I have VR because I launch other games by steam.

I'm pretty annoyed that Odyssey gets not VR support, but I'm not in the camp of "no update is better than no VR in the update".
I'm pretty sure Elite needs a new update better now then in half a year, Horizons is ages ago, Beyond years.
So another delay is off the table...

But I think FD makes a wrong decision by skipping VR support, because I believe it's a growing market. I also think from a marketing
perspective this is a mistake, because Elite is constantly in all top ten VR lists ever published.

What I know is that VR is a niche, even if I would guesstimate the VR percentage in active Elite players is roughly 10%,
so I can understand the decision to not support VR for Odyssey. I also understand a FPS (first person shooter) is difficult to implement with VR.

Which brings me to my last opinion: I personally think the whole movement towards FPS is a grave mistake, and I can't wrap my head around
why the currently best 'spaceship arcade simulator' needs a FPS element. There are better games out there for FPS enthusiasts, but there aren't better games out there for spaceship arcade simulator enthusiasts.

I take it spacelegs is a big - albeit divisive - promise of the kickstarter, but personally I would've preferred if the game concentrated on it's strenghts instead of following a (perceived) fools errand to open it up for new audiences.

But this is all from a 1 minute pre-alpha ingame engine trailer, so I take all that with several grains of salt.

One last thing: in my opinion FD has proven that if they say "VR support not at launch" they mean "never, but we still want your money".
I may be wrong on that one, but personally I believe we won't see VR support for Odyssey for a long time, if ever, and this is why I hate the argument
"but it's only not implemented at launch, keep calm..."
 
Because in order to install the best current fps cod mf/warzone i cant have any other games worth playing as it is unreasonably big app. 😉

Id rather be able to do anything id be interested in doing on one game than have to keep changing games to satisfy my interests.🤷‍♂️
 
Neither Steam nor Oculus data will give an entirely reliable figure for VR usage. I play in VR (either using Rift or Valve Index) but I have never yet used the Oculus launcher, or the Steam launcher - I always start the game using the Frontier launcher. So I think the only people who'll have reliable stats are Frontier ... and right now, I don't think they will want to publish the information.
Every time you launch a game which uses SteamVR it launches the steamvr client and that requires steam client running in the background iirc. Everytime you launch Oculus game the SDK will probably also connect to oculus client running in the background. You might not see the frontend of the store, but it almost certainly is in the background.
 
Ok, let's put this into perspective.

There are currently 62,000,000 Steam users. Let's round the 1.9% VR users to 2% to include users which didn't have the headset installed at the time of the survey. That gives us around 1,240,000 users with a VR headset.
Steam VR users have doubled in the last 12 months.
Odyssey will be released in around 9-12 months, if that growth remains constant then that's a possible 2,500,000 VR users by the time of Odyssey release date.
Odyssey will be around for a while, so let's say the VR user growth amount continues at its current rate for years due to new GPU's and better VR headsets. It's not unreasonable to assume that Steam VR users will hit the 10,000,000 mark within 3 - 4 years time.

Given that Elite is one of the best VR experiences at present with a large percentage of VR users purchasing Elite, or Elite players purchasing VR specifically for the game, Frontier choosing to not support VR in future updates is one of the dumbest moves a company can make.
 
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Ok, let's put this into perspective.

There are currently 62,000,000 Steam users. Let's round the 1.9% VR users to 2% to include users which didn't have the headset installed at the time of the survey. That gives us around 1,240,000 users with a VR headset.
Steam VR users have doubled in the last 12 months.
Odyssey will be released in around 9-12 months, if that growth remains constant then that's a possible 2,500,000 VR users by the time of Odyssey release date.
Odyssey will be around for a while, so let's say the VR user growth amount continues at its current rate for years due to new GPU's and better VR headsets. It's not unreasonable to assume that Steam VR users will hit the 10,000,000 mark within 3 - 4 years time.

Given that Elite is one of the best VR experiences at present with a large percentage of VR users purchasing Elite, or Elite players purchasing VR specifically for the game, Frontier choosing to not support VR in future updates is one of the dumbest moves a company can make.
I wonder if the decision was made in the dim, distant past (2 years ago) to not include VR as, at that time, uptake was still very slow and uncertain?

It is only recently that some of the biggest selling VR games have appeared (and are spawning even more!) - Asseto Corsa & ACC, Pavlov, Beat Saber, now Half-Life: Alyx, currently demand is outstripping supply for HMD's and more are due imminently.
 
They probably think they can grab a few million (or at least hundreds of thousands of) SciFi FPS players with Odyssey, and none of those will be using VR. Because the games they'd come from likely don't have it either. I can only wildly guess here of course, and I may very well be wrong, but I assume the profits (at least in the short term) will by far outweigh the current VR players jumping ship - at least temporarily.

Frankly, I don't wanna believe this myself, but I've talked to a few ED players in recent days, and no, my data isn't statistically relevant due to the sample size being too small, but it seems most of my friends think that getting into that FPS market will be far more profitable than maintaining the status quo in terms of VR. So in essence, FPS means more profit than VR.

If I'm right, I'll have to drop the game, but me (and others) doing so might not be all that significant after all. It's just... After having experienced my first planetary landing in VR, there is simply no going back... It's really bland in 2D when compared to VR. And I was really uninterested in VR before Elite Dangerous... didn't think it could ever be this good...

But what does that all matter if it's less profitable than a 2D FPS component?
 
Why force a FPS game into a space flight sim? It's an odd choice.
They probably think they can grab a few million (or at least hundreds of thousands of) SciFi FPS players with Odyssey, and none of those will be using VR. Because the games they'd come from likely don't have it either. I can only wildly guess here of course, and I may very well be wrong, but I assume the profits (at least in the short term) will by far outweigh the current VR players jumping ship - at least temporarily.

If they want to capture the FPS market then why don't they just make a dedicated FPS spin-off in the Elite universe? It just comes across as strange to me what they're doing, adding something to a game which will force core users with HOTAS and VR headsets to play with completely different control schemes and video hardware, just so they can force some FPS update which nobody asked for. If they wanted to make ground combat a thing within their game they could have just added in some sort of armoured vehicle/tank that you could launch from a cargo bay and shoot each other in.

If I'm right, I'll have to drop the game, but me (and others) doing so might not be all that significant after all. It's just... After having experienced my first planetary landing in VR, there is simply no going back... It's really bland in 2D when compared to VR. And I was really uninterested in VR before Elite Dangerous... didn't think it could ever be this good...

But what does that all matter if it's less profitable than a 2D FPS component?

I'm with you on the VR front, if they stop supporting VR in updates, seeing that I purchased a RTX2080Ti and HP Reverb mainly for this game then I'm out completely. I have played Elite in VR since the beta. I have never played the 2d version and I never want to.
 
I was quite enthusiastic of VR at first. Then I had to try it.

I have a physical condition that forces me to wear glasses with prisms
Plus, VR headsets are very uncomfortable when wearing glasses, at least at the time, I don't know now.
Finally, after 10 minutes of playing, I got so sick that I had to remove the helmet and keep still for another 15 minutes.

The final nail in the coffin was when I learned that my rig was simply not enough to run the game at high settings. i7 6600k 4ghz+ 1070GTX + 1tb ssd + 16Gb RAM.

It is then that I understood that VR was not for me.
And not because I choose to, but because I was not given a choice.

If VR is a nice bonus for those fortunate enough to adopt it, I'm fine with that.
But if it becomes the only solution, I think that is extremely unfair for a lot of people that simply don't have that kind of money, or the optimal physical condition for it.

Oof. Where to begin... First things first: if someone is new to VR, the VR owner should be responsible and not put the VRgin through something like Elite Dangerous or Onward (read: free locomotion, wild camera movements in 6 degrees of freedom). Or god forbid a roller coaster for kicks and giggles. I really wouldn't recommend Elite as first experience, unless you're stationary in the menu - in VR version you're standing in the hangar next to HUGE SRV and even more HUGE Eagle, and the hangar is VAST. But I digress. For first experience, something stationary is recommended, like a wave shooter or something. There's also individual biometrics at play, namely your head shape and interpupilary distance (IPD). If the headset has wrong IPD set, you will see blurry, double, ghosting, chromatic aberration, and it will greatly add to the nausea.

Headset should be adjusted properly, so that lenses center are as coaxial with your pupils as possible, hence the need for IPD regulation. Some cheapskate vendors try to weasel out of the IPD hardware slider as it drives up the cost (looking at you HP Reverb and Oculus Rift S). One should avoid models without IPD regulation unless his/her IPD is ~64mm.

Now regarding glasses, IDK what HMD did you try. There's sufficient room for glasses in Valve Index. There are also companies that offer VR prescription lens inserts for your hmd, like https://vidmovr.com/ or https://vr-lens-lab.com/ . That or you can use contact lenses if you are able.

Back to your first experience - getting nauseous on your first try, depending on the content used, is completely normal. You should stop immediately at first signs of sickness and take a break. Machine used to demo is also important, if it's potato pc and frames are not up to par, VRgin will "suffer". VRvet will only shrug and notice the choppy framerate.

As for your rig, it's not its fault. It's Elite engine being crappy in general. Also, VR is demanding, you need compromises on crappy engines. Again lots of factors could be contributing. Rift had "hidden supersampling" back in the day which kicked in at random moments when the drivers felt that they have overhead. SteamVR does this stupid, stupid auto resolution thingy which needs to be adjusted often per application basis, because it's overly optimistic. It's better shown by example:
I was using VR on an i5-3570k 8GB RAM and first GTX 670 (DK2) then 1070 (vive) and finally 1080Ti till a year ago when I finally upgraded the CPU to an i7-9700k and bought an Index. And that puny i5 (granted overclocked to 4.2GHz) was able to pull many games including Elite for so many years, thanks to Intel's greed and incremental cpu upgrades ;-)

Don't self-eliminate... what you describe is nothing out of the ordinary. If you were demoed Elite, I am not surprised you had nausea, especially with what you wrote about glasses. HTC Vive had ample space for glasses, provided you knew that you can move the panels a little back. I still remember lifting straight up from a Coriolis pad gave me butterflies in my stomach. And not the good kind. It all went away after ~6 weeks. I have now 116 hrs in Onward which is a VR FPS, no problems whatsoever. But, some poor souls never do adapt. Also some poor souls get epillepsy when playing on a monitor. I suspect the percentages are about the same :p

I still remember my first contact with VR on a crappy DK2. It was a simple table with a house built of cards on it. Not interactive, nothing. But the wow effect was so huge I promptly called my wife and practically dragged her to my friend's house to try it :D And she was amazed like a kid in the candystore :D There was also this dinosaur experience where you watched big saurs and then an egg started to crack... And then my friend showed us a rollercoaster. None of us had any knowledge about VR at that time so I gladly jumped in. Dude, I was sitting on the couch and still had to GRAB IT to "ground myself" and remind my stupid brain that I'm not tumbling up and down but sitting on a damn couch. We didn't know back then that it was a primitive anti-poison defence mechanism dating back to cavemen times and foolishly assumed that it "simulates roller coaster" :D
Anyhow, at this stage the brain is susceptible to sensory mismatch, so it can cause these kinds of unpleasant sensations because it's convinced you're poisoned and need to throw up.

Conversely it is the best time to try ekhem... adult entertainment in VR. Because your brain is sooo easily fooled, it really wants to believe what it's seeing and... assumes certain things. What this does is it throws your way some ghost sensory inputs that aren't really there like an illusion of touch. I won't go into details as forum is PG7. Just trust me on this one :p And those experiences are usually stationary, if it moves the camera it's a bad experience :p (or, for higher difficulty level players lol).

Last but not least, VR won't eliminate traditional gaming. People are lazy slobs, they don't want to stand for X amount of hours and shoot baddies in Onward. And oftentimes I just don't feel like going in VR and play some popcorn-class 2d game like Overwatch. So yeah, 2d is still here to stay, for a long time. That said, I'd literally KILL for Cyberpunk 2077 in VR. CDPR plisss... At least it's not off the table like with Witcher. But, alas, also "not on launch".
 
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