Ships Vulture VS ASP

[Phyl]

Hi Guys,

I've been away for a while seeing some of the sights of the galaxy. Just traded in my data and have 13 mil to play with - so time to trade up my old Cobra.

I was originally planning to get an ASP, but was tempted by the Vulture as I'm probably going to hang around for a while before heading back out into the black and it seems the Vulture is the ship of choice for bounty hunting and combat zones.

Anyway, I picked up a Vulture and kitted it out with top rated beams, and to be honest I'm finding I was getting more kills in my Cobra. The 2 large beams somehow don't seem to be as effective the 2 small beams and 2 medium multicannons I had in my Cobra - especially if they're all used together once the targets shields were down.

Just interested whether you think it's worth trading in the Vulture for an ASP to get the setup I'm used to but with extra hardpoints. If you'd stick with the Vulture what are it's strengths over the ASP?

Really just after some opinions - I'm feeling very tempted to swap the Vulture for the ASP but also think I might be missing something with the Vulture...

Cheers

Cmdr Phyl

 

[Ceekay]

I have both, the Vulture fitted with class 3 pulse, A grade power and dist, D5 shield + A0 booster is overpowered for RES and NAV hunting, I've just built another Vulture with class 2 pulse and D grade kit and it's working pretty good and cheap too.

I bought my Asp at Alioth (Alliance permit needed) as it's discounted by 20%, even in my fairly basic build (around 8 mil) it's a fine ship essentially a bigger Cobra, but it's also a bigger target if you intend to go bounty hunting and it hasn't got the Cobra's speed if you need to leave quickly but it's an excellent all rounder.

I'd suggest building a Vulture light for RES work it'll make credit's fast then get good rep with the Alliance and have an Asp for everything else.

 

[Ziljan]

The Vulture's power distributor might go to class A5, but that isn't enough to support two full beams efficiently. It's best to either go with 2 pulse lasers or a mix of 1 Beam and 1 Kinetic Weapon (canon etc). I have been getting very good sustained DPS using a Class 3 Beam and a Class2 Multi-Cannon (maybe 20-30% higher sustained DPS than 2 class 3 Pulse Beams). The class 3 kinetics aren't that useful for sustained DPS or hitting small ships, though they are good for assassination attempts on larger ships. Going with 2 Pulse Lasers has the clear benefit of never needing to head back to base to reload.


The Asp is a lackluster combat vehicle. It is very expensive to make it combat worthy, and it handles like a passenger bus compared to the Vulture. It is hardly worth the effort though. On top of which the flatulent engine sounds bloated and lumbering and the cockpit frame looks like a worried brow line. This is all foreshadowing of the combat capabilities of the ship. It has glass shields and can be easily flanked in a turning battle exposing it's squishy underbellies (plural). It has too much inertia to make good use of that class 6 maneuverability, and it's very risky to fly at speed in an asteroid field.

The Asp isn't totally worthless however. It does have a great jump range and a respectable cargo capacity. After Power Play comes out, it should be a capable mining ship with adequate defenses to fend off the odd pirate. In the current game however, the Vulture makes a much better mining ship with it's nimble thrusters, low inertia, infinite mining lasing, and respectable cargo capacity (with a little shuffling).

EDIT: To respond to Ceekay's claim that the Vulture is "slow", it is not. With A5 thrusters and an A5 power dist, I can boost to 390 and the refresh for the boost is nearly always up. This is enough to outrun AI Vipers and Cobras and jump away or recharge shields to finish them off. You won't be doing a lot of running in a Vulture though, quite the opposite. Luckily, the speed is equally useful for chasing down prey.

 

[Ceekay]

The Vulture's power distributor might go to class A5, but that isn't enough to support two full beams efficiently. It's best to either go with 2 pulse lasers or a mix of 1 Beam and 1 Kinetic Weapon (canon etc). I have been getting very good sustained DPS using a Class 3 Beam and a Class2 Multi-Cannon (maybe 20-30% higher sustained DPS than 2 class 3 Pulse Beams). The class 3 kinetics aren't that useful for sustained DPS or hitting small ships, though they are good for assassination attempts on larger ships. Going with 2 Pulse Lasers has the clear benefit of never needing to head back to base to reload.


The Asp is a lackluster combat vehicle. It is very expensive to make it combat worthy, and it handles like a passenger bus compared to the Vulture. It is hardly worth the effort though. On top of which the flatulent engine sounds bloated and lumbering and the cockpit frame looks like a worried brow line. This is all foreshadowing of the combat capabilities of the ship. It has glass shields and can be easily flanked in a turning battle exposing it's squishy underbellies (plural). It has too much inertia to make good use of that class 6 maneuverability, and it's very risky to fly at speed in an asteroid field.

The Asp isn't totally worthless however. It does have a great jump range and a respectable cargo capacity. After Power Play comes out, it should be a capable mining ship with adequate defenses to fend off the odd pirate. In the current game however, the Vulture makes a much better mining ship with it's nimble thrusters, low inertia, infinite mining lasing, and respectable cargo capacity (with a little shuffling).

EDIT: To respond to Ceekay's claim that the Vulture is "slow", it is not. With A5 thrusters and an A5 power dist, I can boost to 390 and the refresh for the boost is nearly always up. This is enough to outrun AI Vipers and Cobras and jump away or recharge shields to finish them off. You won't be doing a lot of running in a Vulture though, quite the opposite. Luckily, the speed is equally useful for chasing down prey.

Where did I say the Vulture is slow? it's not a rocket ship (well actually it is but you know what I mean ) but it's great in it's intended role. Certainly a budget Asp will do around 190 m/s and it'll not get a lot quicker with better kit I suspect, unlike the Cobra.

 

[Reaver 2.0]

Honestly if you just want to bounty farm, you can do just fine with a ~3mil investment in a Viper. With it's two class 2 and two class 1 weapons may take a bit longer per kill but it does the job. I usually don't feel like I'm taking too long to kill a ship and move to another...if it's big enough for me to worry about...it'll still be there in 30-90 seconds.

Now if PvP is anywhere on your radar, then yes....go with a Vulture.

 

[Ziljan]

The one benefits of Viper over a Vulture is for zipping around an RES and tagging distant targets quickly. Speed is probably more important than damage because the local authorities might kill a smaller target before you can get close enough to get a bounty for hitting it a few times. The respawn isn't fast enough at RES to worry very much about killing them quickly.

However once you get a bad rep with the criminals and start seeing wings of vengeful pirates, then it's time to move on to a new system or upgrade to a Vulture. Likewise with Conflict Zones since raw speed isn't that useful except when fleeing.

 

[Phyl]

Thanks Guys, useful insights.

I think I'll stick it out with the Vulture for a bit and try out some of the other lasers and different systems. I defaulted to the beams as I got on very well with them on the cobra and it sounds like I might be able to downrate some of the other bits to reduce insurance. It is a shame there is no large multicannon, as that has been my weapon of choice up to now, and it just seems silly to fit a medium gun into a large hardpoint when there are only 2 available.

Ultimately I do want an ASP for exploring - so think I will swap it out of the ASP at some point. If I find the ASP doesn't cut it in combat, well there is a lot of galaxy out there to be explored... By the time I get back there will probably be other options

 

[xkjacob]

Redo your vulture layout. Dont use beam drains down too fast use pulse lasers.
Dont do A shields or thrusters.
Make sure you are doing the power priority trick to run over 100% power usage.
Dont rely on speed to kill targets rely on close proximity.

Should you Asp? The Asp is a replacer for..
Type 6, Hauler, Cobra,Viper,Sidewinder and Adder.
The Vulture is a replacer for..
Hauler, Viper and sidewinder.

Technically the Asp is more capable as a ship, but the vulture is much better at combat.

 

[Ziljan]

I finally broke the 30Million CR barrier and had a chance to fly a fully upgraded combat Asp. With better thrusters it is noticeably more graceful, and with the right gun/pulse combo and targeting sequence, it can do as much sustained damage as a Vulture. It also has enough power slots to upgrade shields to something resembling a middling Vulture. This is fine because the Vulture must compromise on power loadouts so much that there is no such thing as a fully upgraded A Class Vulture. This is not true for the Asp, which can slot A Class everything, and have room left over for several utility slots and shield boosters, etc. The Asp also has a disgusting amount of momentum. This means it cannot slow down or corner sharply enough to tail another ship very well. It also means that a single boost will last a very long time while maintaining a high speed (392 at figthting weight). As long as you are careful in asteroid fields and while docking, the downsides to this momentum are minimal. You won't be an Ace at turning wars unfortunately, but the ship is still pretty agile for it's size.

Other than the infinitely flexible load out, my favorite thing about the Asp is that it has a huge jump range. Even while fully loaded you can jump 28 LY which is enough to traverse all of human space in about 14 jumps. The spindly blue sphere of jumps that shows up on the map surrounding your current location is a mere two jumps from center to edge and this makes everything seem so much closer compared to the painfully short jump range of the Vulture ~15 LY. Based on this alone, I don't think I can go back to a Vulture.

 

[puca]

On top of which the flatulent engine sounds

What! What! I challenge you to fisticuffs!

---

Asp will take longer to kill large ships like anacondas in PvE compared to the vulture. That's about it. Asp is fine in combat, you can farm RES just fine in it if a competent pilot.

 

[Distance]

In real world play the asp can dictate the terms due to it's increased jump range and jump to another system without masslock and the vulture won't be able to follow.

An asp can be a good combat ship in the right hands and with the right load out. The vulture should win though as if flown correctly the Asp pilot shouldn't be able to get on it's 6. Add with the large profile of the asp and the ease in which you can take down it's power plant the Vulture should win every time in a 1 on 1 with no running away and pilots of equal skill.

I fly an Asp myself and do a lot of pvp in it so don't take this as hate towards it as it's a very capable ship. All pvp boils down to shields, boost speed and jumping away so from a meta perspective in real game play you shouldn't be able to kill an Asp in a vulture as it will run away.

 

[Rubbernuke]

My main reason for moving away from an Asp to a Python was the Asps vulnerable powerplant- does the Vulture have any really weak subsystem placement?

 

[Ziljan]

If you read my 2nd post, you'll see I walked back my reservations about the Asp. The engine still sounds weak and gassy, but I guess I can live with that until the Diamondback comes out (which I hope is the successor to the general purpose Asp).

Concerning the "weak power plant", in turns out that the vulture also has a surprisingly squishy power plant. It just hides it behind stronger shields. Pro Tip: the Class B items have much greater mass and can take much more damage when targeted. The class B power plant would still allow for a decent combat load out on an Asp...

 

[Phoenix366]

Use 1x class 3 beam and 1x class 3 cannon.

Trust me, beam melts shields, cannon vs powerplant on anything bigger than a cobra. you wreck conflict zones never mind easier prey in nav and res.

Also having an a5 shield with 2x boosters is amazing as you just dont lose shields. Run if you do but i think you'll find you can happily face tank an anaconda with it.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If you read my 2nd post, you'll see I walked back my reservations about the Asp. The engine still sounds weak and gassy, but I guess I can live with that until the Diamondback comes out (which I hope is the successor to the general purpose Asp).

Concerning the "weak power plant", in turns out that the vulture also has a surprisingly squishy power plant. It just hides it behind stronger shields. Pro Tip: the Class B items have much greater mass and can take much more damage when targeted. The class B power plant would still allow for a decent combat load out on an Asp...

When I was fighting in Lugh CZ's even with a B rated pp it was still twenty shots from death. The Asp is a strange one, although it is a huge ship I think most of it is engine as even in full retreat my pp module was still getting a beating. With a B powerplant I had twin D beams (with everything else A spec) and with shields up it was a great fighter though.

 

[puca]

If you read my 2nd post, you'll see I walked back my reservations about the Asp. The engine still sounds weak and gassy, but I guess I can live with that until the Diamondback comes out (which I hope is the successor to the general purpose Asp).

Oh man, I want the diamondback to be an asp-like ship in the python/fdl price range SO MUCH. It would be an upgrade for us explorers that doesn't turn like a barge!

Asp engines sound like bomber plane engines, they have one of the more pronounced sounds. Anaconda has fairly weak sounding engines, actually, by comparison.

 

[Nerdicus]

I've found that while I do like the multi-role capabilities of the Asp (solid miner as well), it just cost too darn much to effectively arm for even moderate PVE once you've got everyone upset at you. You can plunk $7 million into a Vulture (including the cost of the ship), and pretty much go toe to toe with anything they throw at you.

 

[Ziljan]

...even with a B rated pp [the Asp] was still twenty shots from death. The Asp is a strange one, although it is a huge ship I think most of it is engine as even in full retreat my pp module was still getting a beating.[/QUOTE

20 direct shots is quite a bit! The issue isn't that it weaker. It's simply that the Asp power plant is the size of a barn door. And is hard not to hit, regardless of the attack angle. Hitting the pp of a smaller nimbler ship is a bit more of challenge and rolling or showing your engines will stop or at least slow pp damage. Jousting seems like it might be a good option the Asp since hitting from the front seems to obscure pp targeting a bit better.

Oh man, I want the diamondback to be an asp-like ship in the python/fdl price range SO MUCH. It would be an upgrade for us explorers that doesn't turn like a barge!

Yes yes yes! Although if we go by plating, the Diamondback looks more like a heavy bomber. It has hull plating that is reminiscent of the Vulture, but with a body style closer to an Asp. A "combat explorer" ship perhaps? It would certainly be an interesting niche, especially with a Thargoid presence looming. If we go simply by the naming scheme, the avian names seem to be dedicated fighters, and the reptilian names tend to be All-Purpose, with the one exception being the Viper. So that is a good sign I suppose.

 

[Morbad]

The Vulture's power distributor might go to class A5, but that isn't enough to support two full beams efficiently.

Trigger discipline goes a long way with this.

I've fought with dual fixed beams, and the second beam was excellent for times when large amounts of shield damage was needed for brief periods of time, such as when powering through an SCB use. With each weapon on a different trigger I would typically alternate them in most other situations, firing whichever was most likely to hit at the time.

Also, it's wise to not fully deplete WEP and fire in few second bursts.

In real world play the asp can dictate the terms due to it's increased jump range and jump to another system without masslock and the vulture won't be able to follow.

Realistically, no one can follow, and jump range doesn't matter much.

Wake scanners are dead weight and cycling through systems to find destination manually takes time. By the time you know where they went, any prudent CMDR would already have dropped to normal space and made a second jump, meaning there wouldn't be a low energy wake in their destination to drop into, and thus no high energy wake in that now non-existent instance.

My main reason for moving away from an Asp to a Python was the Asps vulnerable powerplant- does the Vulture have any really weak subsystem placement?

Both the PP and thrusters are easy to hit on the Vulture. Not quite as easy as the Asp's PP, but not much harder.

That said, you have no excuse when you lose your shields in the Vulture. It just should not happen if you know what you are doing.

 

[Rubbernuke]

This does highlight my only bugbear of ED in that shields are vital, and hull armour not so much. Once the shield is gone, you have to withdraw in both these ships quickly.

But all this talk of Asps is making me feel guilty for selling mine. In the last days of the Lugh conflict, I lost my Asp shield while being chased by a Vulture and a Dropship. I was glad the Asp has a higher normal speed than the Vulture as my thrusters and PP were taking a great deal of damage. I jumped out with about 30% health with each...

I might even try out a Vulture- all this debate goes to show what a great job FD have done with the ships.