We blaze our own trail

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Sole Hunter said:
I'll use the word we if I want. We as in those who do PVP and do not endorse combat logging in any shape of form and whether or not it's endorsed and approved by frontier. I'll report anyone who combat log on me, done via menus or not I don't care. Combat logging is cheating, period.
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Menu logging isn't an exploit. Not even in PvP. If RL calls(this usually happens at least once, every time I play) I will menu log, in any situation. The game is simply not important enough to have a different approach if another commander is around.

On the other hand, menu logging can easily be used as an exploit.
If I sitt 6km outside a station in a ship with lots of long range rails and shoot people, and then menu log if someone comes after me, I am exploiting.
If I interdict you and then menu log, when I realize I'm losing, I'm exploiting.

It all depends on the situation.
 

Sole Hunter

Banned
S
Han_Zen said:
Menu logging isn't an exploit. Not even in PvP. If RL calls(this usually happens at least once, every time I play) I will menu log, in any situation. The game is simply not important enough to have a different approach if another commander is around.

On the other hand, menu logging can easily be used as an exploit.
If I sitt 6km outside a station in a ship with lots of long range rails and shoot people, and then menu log if someone comes after me, I am exploiting.
If I interdict you and then menu log, when I realize I'm losing, I'm exploiting.

It all depends on the situation.
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Yes, I agree that menu logging can be abused to combat log on someone which is why many PVP players do not agree with frontier stance on the matter.
If you log out during PVP, you are cheater in my book, period. That's my opinion and it's never going to change. I don't care if you disagree with it.
 
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Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Sole Hunter said:
Yes, I agree that menu logging can be abused to combat log on someone which is why many PVP players do not agree with frontier stance on the matter.
If you log out during PVP, you are cheater in my book, period. That's my opinion and it's never going to change. I don't care if you disagree with it.
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It's all about communication, when you play in a way that isn't regulated by the game mechanics.

If we were in an even 1vs1(not that this would happen, as I'm a mediocre combat pilot) and I messaged you: ' Kid's vomiting in bed, gota go. By'. And then menu logged, You would not think of it as cheating.

If on the other hand, I messaged: 'U ZUXXOR, I WINZ' and then logged, you would feel cheated.

Some may feel that talking politely to a PvP opponent breaks their RP, but if you are leaving the game, you might as well call off the RP.
 

Valorin

Valorin
It's ridiculous how seriously games are taken nowadays...

to contribute to the discussion: in a game the rules are made by the ones who created it. Which would be Frontier Developments. They very clearly defined the rules: pull the plug and you're cheating, log out from the menus and you're fine. It's really utterly unimportant what anybody thinks about that because these are the rules!

What kind of house rules you make up within a player group is another thing, but people have to _agree_ on these house rules. Other than that it's default rules. Default rules are defined by the creators of the game... And back to the start of this post.

How can this simple fact be so hard to get and in any way be a topic to be discussed? You can have your opinion, but rules are rules and if you play the game you signed those rules. Period.
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
I'm of the opinion that taking commodities away from engineering game design caused a problem .. because it meant a rapid proliferation of the mods. If a larger percentage of the people you meet have upgrades, you need them too. If it had been left as it was, engineering would have stayed relatively niche.

It's a thorny one obviously and OK fair enough, commodities were removed so people could use the feature and ED is developing a range of features - but I'm a bit worried that rumours of engineering being made even easier after 2.4 will mean yet more proliferation and that soon, having engineer mods will be a 100% necessity no matter what role you play in the game .. which is not so much blazing your own trail I think.
 

Sole Hunter

Banned
S
Han_Zen said:
It's all about communication, when you play in a way that isn't regulated by the game mechanics.

If we were in an even 1vs1(not that this would happen, as I'm a mediocre combat pilot) and I messaged you: ' Kid's vomiting in bed, gota go. By'. And then menu logged, You would not think of it as cheating.

If on the other hand, I messaged: 'U ZUXXOR, I WINZ' and then logged, you would feel cheated.

Some may feel that talking politely to a PvP opponent breaks their RP, but if you are leaving the game, you might as well call off the RP.
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Yes, context is important and I can understand if you are a friendly player but using it as an excuse to combat log every so often while we are fighting is too much of a coincidence. Also, many PVP players do not take any chance anymore. Personally If I don't know you and you combat log on me even if your reason may sound legitimate I will report you.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Yeah, I remember Frontier telling us about those nice PvP groups who reported the engineer cheat the moment they found it. They told each other: look guys, this is clearly cheating. Don't use that cheat or you'll be kicked out of our group. We have got standards you know. It would be hypocritical of us to report combat loggers while turning a blind eye to our own cheating.
 

Ryan Murdoc

Ryan Murdoc
Valorin said:
It's ridiculous how seriously games are taken nowadays...

to contribute to the discussion: in a game the rules are made by the ones who created it. Which would be Frontier Developments. They very clearly defined the rules: pull the plug and you're cheating, log out from the menus and you're fine. It's really utterly unimportant what anybody thinks about that because these are the rules!

What kind of house rules you make up within a player group is another thing, but people have to _agree_ on these house rules. Other than that it's default rules. Default rules are defined by the creators of the game... And back to the start of this post.

How can this simple fact be so hard to get and in any way be a topic to be discussed? You can have your opinion, but rules are rules and if you play the game you signed those rules. Period.
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Perfectly said. Now the only thing that is needed are to supply hammers and nails so people can attach it to the planks they're wearing sideways across their face for permanent reminding.

Edit:

Though this applies to the PvP section in this game. PvP holds no candle to Powerplay or even BGS in means of difficulty.
 
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Ozram

Ozram
Winterwalker said:
I'm of the opinion that taking commodities away from engineering game design caused a problem .. because it meant a rapid proliferation of the mods. If a larger percentage of the people you meet have upgrades, you need them too. If it had been left as it was, engineering would have stayed relatively niche.

It's a thorny one obviously and OK fair enough, commodities were removed so people could use the feature and ED is developing a range of features - but I'm a bit worried that rumours of engineering being made even easier after 2.4 will mean yet more proliferation and that soon, having engineer mods will be a 100% necessity no matter what role you play in the game .. which is not so much blazing your own trail I think.
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Says the guy who thinks he can take on an engineered pvp ship with an unengineered iEagle.
 

Martian Successor

Martian Successor
sovapid said:
This was a quote from when it was originally posted:

"We will define broken mechanics or the so-called meta, and how to handle it, on our own. Bugs are inevitable in evolving software, if something is exploited then grow up and stop crying."

That reads to me "we are gonna exploit and don't cry about if we do".
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That's why it was amended. The original statement wasn't clear and was too confrontational. It now clearly reflects the simple desire to be treated as equals when sitting at the 'PvP round table'.
 
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