We need the ability to form in-game clans

[hunvagy]

Im sure this topic has come up before, but I'm throwing my 2 cents in here. Hoping enough people will agree to this to change the Dev's minds and actually get this thing happening.

The Backstory :
I know quite a few people who have bought Elite Dangerous, played it for a week or 2, and never played it again. The reason ? It's simple. While the game has the ability to form 'wings', it is still pretty much a solo playing game. The only teamwork involved is to fly together and shoot other ships.
I am part of an online gaming community and in 1 of our catch-ups, the topic of ED came up and many people said they stopped playing for this reason.
Some great ideas came up during the discussion though and thought I would share them and hoping generate enough interest in the idea.

Ideas :
With the introduction of Horizons, make it possible to form clans/groups/guilds/gangs/outfits where we are given a small outpost base on some random planet. Then allow these groups to collect resources, research base defense weapons and ultimately build their base into something more powerful. Allow modules (eg, extra landing pads), to be researched (via the collection of certain commodities) and built.
Put an upkeep on these bases as well (eg, consumes x amount of food every few days).

This will attract more players to the game, and make it a lot more involved. It will give groups the sense of accomplishment and a goal towards something bigger than themselves.

What do you guys think ?

Sure, if you don't mind that your base persists into Solo and Private Group, and players there can level and destroy it without you having any input on this, save for npc ships/skimmers representing you. Or did you imagine that your base only exists and hides in open, away from the good people of the other modes? And of course the same should go for taking your researched equipment too.


EDIT: To clarify, base attacks are a real thing, mentioned in more then one On the Horizons stream. And if player owned planetside structures would ever become a thing, I would think it only fair for them to use the same ruleset as NPC structures. And if somebody comes across a "clan" base in solo, it would behave just like an npc base and changing anything in it would have interesting results. Unless of course it's no synched, in which case what's the point of a player owned structure, if it just is another npc building and the changes, whether positive or negative never reflect on it.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
dotn worry you dont see clans/corps in your solo or group mode!

That's a good example why clans/guilds are problematic in games. They often result in "play in a clan/guild" or stop playing OUR game mentality.

Next:
- players being forced into clans/guilds because if they don't have a clan tag they are the preferred prey as they don't have the protection of a clan
- clan/guilds constantly demanding the game to be designed only around their needs/wants

The only advantage is that others can enjoy watching clans implode form internal struggle. Always fun.

 

[Jamesey1981]

Lame is subjective. Lets have a look at real ridiculous gang names that will "remind" you that you're in the real world.

Burger Team ( California ) Headed by a West Coast kingpin known as Peter Pepper.
Crazy ass white boy.
Los pollos hermanos.
Folks ( Kansas )
Frenchman money boys ( Louisiana )
*Pluck* being broke ( Georgia )
Give no *Plucks* ( Alabama )
Goonies for life ( Alaska )

Careful now, they may start breaking our real life immersion!

Had fun doing a little google search for that.

What about commander names? àààóó was one I saw last. Careful now, don't want to break your immersion sir because you do not approve of this name. We should definitely void any commander names and be listed as Cmdr John.
If you don't want to be faced with REAL player names ( in other languages that you might not estime worthy of a name ) play SOLO!

This is ridiculous.

Not getting involved in the thread discussion,
Do need to point out though that at least one of the gangs you have mentioned is fictional.
Los Pollos Hermanos is from Breaking Bad, and if you google it, the first link you get is a picture of Gustavo Fring, with fictional character next to it in brackets, not commenting on the others, as I don't know either way, but I would advise you check and edit as it makes your whole post look a little suspect and takes away from the point you're trying to make.

EDIT: Now corrected.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Burger Team (arguably the stupidest name there) are, or at least were real!

 

[Veyder]

As others have stated previously, Clans/Groups already exist. So people not wanting them is pointless even though there isn't a real robust mechanic for them in-game yet. These groups are managed by Leaders via privately owned websites like Inara.cz and utilize software like TeamSpeak, Skype or Discord to communicate. I am not against in-game groups, but I also recognize that there are sites and 3rd party tools that perform way better than anything in-game would.



I do believe that Player Minor Factions should have the option to create Stations, Outposts and Bases as it is now via CG. Players should also be able to have tags for their group/minor faction, power or Major Power. Mechanics for raids, group missions, etc. I don't think this is needed. I also think that players who do not want to participate should be able to switch off tag/labels etc.



Naming your ships should also be a thing in my opinion.



I am happy either way, currently we have a good system running and I do not see Frontier beating the level of performance given by the third party tools.



Frontier should do something about the friends list management though, it is horrendous (List constantly shifting as people come on and offline.)

 

[Sir.Tj]

I can see this thread is going places.. I'm getting out now..

Eject eject eject!

Exactly.

Lets keep the personal comment out of the forum please.

 

[SirGirard]

No, nobody's ever mentioned it. :S

I am sure they have mentioned it under the subject heading "Multiplayer". IMHO this is where the game needs a lot more to improve it. Having played Eve Online for several years, I am not certainly not advocating that approach....however some aspects of multiplayer as part of Groups and Open would add to the play depth immeasurably. After all ED always was and is a "Space Trading Game", but the trading model is so narrow and one dimensional!

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

This is what I read: "I disagree because [generalization] [assign general subjective trait] [adjective negativity]"
If we could remain in the realm of sound argumentation that'd be great. The above are traits of self-entitlement, of poor reasoning and limited intellect.

Forging an opinion is fine. Supporting it with* fallacious arguments is beyond ridiculous and of no value to the development of ideas.

Maybe I am just unfortunate but my experience of clans and general playing MP games with people I do not know has been.

1) joined a group in counter strike, got told to "do as I am told or GTHO noob"
2) tried DOTA2..... got shouted at for being a feeder and to GTHO and get some skillz
3) EVE I didnt join a guild and got pounded
4) people playing music really loudly down the mic, or swearing and racial hate (COD and Gears of War)

so to be honest I cant say I am a fan of MP with randoms in general, and I believe adding too much support for guilds will lead to guild targetted content and the end of the road for the lone wolf... .Something I believe must not happen in ED.

funnily enough the best MP experiences I have had with randomes in online games has been in............. ED.... a game which some say is a rubbish MP game. go figure
I also had some great times in Battlefield badcompany 2but this was not in a guild as such, just a few people joining up together as a rag tag group

 

[TRLOS]

Maybe I am just unfortunate but my experience of clans and general playing MP games with people I do not know has been.

1) joined a group in counter strike, got told to "do as I am told or GTHO noob"
2) tried DOTA2..... got shouted at for being a feeder and to GTHO and get some skillz
3) EVE I didnt join a guild and got pounded
4) people playing music really loudly down the mic, or swearing and racial hate (COD and Gears of War)

so to be honest I cant say I am a fan of MP with randoms in general, and I believe adding too much support for guilds will lead to guild targetted content and the end of the road for the lone wolf... .Something I believe must not happen in ED.

funnily enough the best MP experiences I have had with randomes in online games has been in............. ED.... a game which some say is a rubbish MP game. go figure
I also had some great times in Battlefield badcompany 2but this was not in a guild as such, just a few people joining up together as a rag tag group

Maybe you should try out different guilds/outfits. I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with them.
Honestly, back in the battlefield 3 days, I also joined an outfit that was similar to your experience "do as your told". I quickly left that group and joined up with another one and I am happy to say, these guys are awesome. Sure, had some teething issues at the beginning, but what group of people don't have the occasional tiff ?
Not all groups are the same. If you're interested in an awesome group of people who are laid back and just want to play online games together, I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who would happily take you on board.
If you're in Australia and looking for a decent outfit, message me and i'll give you our Teamspeak details.

We shouldn't automatically dismiss the idea of clans/guilds in the game just because you've had a a few bad experiences. Not every group is the same.

 

[hunvagy]

Maybe you should try out different guilds/outfits. I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with them.
Honestly, back in the battlefield 3 days, I also joined an outfit that was similar to your experience "do as your told". I quickly left that group and joined up with another one and I am happy to say, these guys are awesome. Sure, had some teething issues at the beginning, but what group of people don't have the occasional tiff ?
Not all groups are the same. If you're interested in an awesome group of people who are laid back and just want to play online games together, I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who would happily take you on board.
If you're in Australia and looking for a decent outfit, message me and i'll give you our Teamspeak details.

We shouldn't automatically dismiss the idea of clans/guilds in the game just because you've had a a few bad experiences. Not every group is the same.

And the same way you shouldn't dismiss the comments from people who are against the very idea of visible clans/guilds. I'm not saying your idea is bad, but can you assure that once you're given an inch, other groups won't start the usual caterwauling that they need more? I have to say the same for this idea as for the global comms. Yes, in theory it sounds nice, but give a little, and people will smell blood in the water.

And honestly, this game really isn't for the usual group content that a lot of people with the guild mindset want. I for one sure as hell don't want to see the Farraguts and the Majestic turned into raid content so people can say "I haz ships that need a group of 4/8/whatever to defeat, and it drops the awesomesauce railgun of purpleness"

If FD manages to keep the usual MMO trappings that are tired and old out of the game, then yeah, have your clan tag. Sadly I don't have enough trust in online player bases that they will leave it at that.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I can think of little that I would like less than the introduction of clans to Elite.

Player groups are already viable and supported; you can even gain status as a minor faction. The spirit of the game resides in the individual 'blazing their own trail'. Forgive me, but you seem to want a different experience. Maybe it's worth trying a different game?

What utter nonsense. So blazing your own trail is fine as you're doing it your way, is it? Don't you have any friends? Maybe you would like to play with them and fly around the galaxy together. Wouldn't it be nice if you could name your little group something? You can do that anyway already by setting up a website "outside" of the game but really, we want things to be inside the game because we like "immersion" and since it makes no difference to anyone else, I don't see what the issue is.

Do you think by keeping "clans" out of Elite that somehow stops people playing together?

 

[Asp Explorer]

The introduction of "clan tags" or other similar nonsense will simply make the game of "logoff and lulzban" so much easier for those who want to play it.

 

[TRLOS]

And the same way you shouldn't dismiss the comments from people who are against the very idea of visible clans/guilds. I'm not saying your idea is bad, but can you assure that once you're given an inch, other groups won't start the usual caterwauling that they need more? I have to say the same for this idea as for the global comms. Yes, in theory it sounds nice, but give a little, and people will smell blood in the water.

And honestly, this game really isn't for the usual group content that a lot of people with the guild mindset want. I for one sure as hell don't want to see the Farraguts and the Majestic turned into raid content so people can say "I haz ships that need a group of 4/8/whatever to defeat, and it drops the awesomesauce railgun of purpleness"

If FD manages to keep the usual MMO trappings that are tired and old out of the game, then yeah, have your clan tag. Sadly I don't have enough trust in online player bases that they will leave it at that.

Oh, absolutely agree with you.
Some of people's concerns on this thread are valid (most are ludicrous nonsense from people who don't read the entire thread and just make up stories in their minds). I also agree that if you give an inch, people will want to claim the entire damn continent.
If you read back on the suggestion (which I tried to clear up and simplify on Page 5 of this thread), and only limit the clan mechanic accordingly, then it shouldn't give anyone any unfair advantages or break the game in any particular way.
I would really love for people to actually read the thread before making up crap stories in their minds and posting irrelevant opinions.

Just because we give someone an inch, doesn't mean we need to give them the whole mile just because they ask for it.

Let's try and keep the concerns and ideas based on what was proposed.
There was no mention of taxes, or restricting access, or making bases destructible, or any of those other invalid concerns.... so I have no idea where these people got their idea's from.
I merely presented an idea, a suggestion. Like Braben has mentioned, clan based gameplay is coming. It's unavoidable. So lets provide some useful thoughts on how it can be created and implemented without it breaking the game for anyone.

 

[Wescott]

Im sure this topic has come up before, but I'm throwing my 2 cents in here. Hoping enough people will agree to this to change the Dev's minds and actually get this thing happening.

The Backstory :
I know quite a few people who have bought Elite Dangerous, played it for a week or 2, and never played it again. The reason ? It's simple. While the game has the ability to form 'wings', it is still pretty much a solo playing game. The only teamwork involved is to fly together and shoot other ships.
I am part of an online gaming community and in 1 of our catch-ups, the topic of ED came up and many people said they stopped playing for this reason.
Some great ideas came up during the discussion though and thought I would share them and hoping generate enough interest in the idea.

Ideas :
With the introduction of Horizons, make it possible to form clans/groups/guilds/gangs/outfits where we are given a small outpost base on some random planet. Then allow these groups to collect resources, research base defense weapons and ultimately build their base into something more powerful. Allow modules (eg, extra landing pads), to be researched (via the collection of certain commodities) and built.
Put an upkeep on these bases as well (eg, consumes x amount of food every few days).

This will attract more players to the game, and make it a lot more involved. It will give groups the sense of accomplishment and a goal towards something bigger than themselves.

What do you guys think ?

Has it not simply occurred to you that this is not designed with you or your play style in mind, if so why should it change just for your benefit. Try Eve online there sure are plenty of ready gankers to trash you as soon as you undock;] in there to satisfy your interests.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I get what you are saying. I do see people's points of view, but lets look at this from the flip side.
Lets just assume a clan is a bunch of trolls, looking to cause grief and misery in the game.
How would giving them a land base with their name on it, and a clan tag make it any different to current gameplay ? If anything, it would pull them all into 1 smaller circle of systems and would leave the rest of the universe untouched. If they decide to abandon their base and go wandering as a group from system to system, then this whole 'clan' idea makes absolutely no difference to what is actually happening already.

This offers absolutely no additional benefits to anyone from the current game play. It only adds another aspect to it.

You're also forgetting that months ago, DB said that if players were being idiots, he could put them all in their own instance and what better way of collecting idiots than to let them form their own clan. FD can the target the clan and separate them from the game which is MUCH better for the community as a whole.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You're also forgetting that months ago, DB said that if players were being idiots, he could put them all in their own instance and what better way of collecting idiots than to let them form their own clan. FD can the target the clan and separate them from the game which is MUCH better for the community as a whole.

nice idea.... but as much as I love ED and have a whole class 6 cargo hold full of respect for FD..... much of what FD, and especially DB has SAID about how they would handle MP and the consequences of player (in game) violence against other players has not been reflected in their actions.

So at this point I am afraid I do not have much faith left in that part of ED...... and indeed if it was not for private groups in the game (thank god I am not a console ED pilot) I would have been forced into solo for the most part long ago.

 

[kilvenny]

Clans are already here, since groups can become minor factions. I think this will grow because inter faction warfare between player factions makes absolute sense.

Skill trees and researching for more complex stuff - no chance. It goes against everything we have seen so far.

I believe we may well see group/player owned bases at some point, but it will be built on a credits rather than a research methodology. Again this makes sense as a focus point for groups of people.

 

[TRLOS]

You're also forgetting that months ago, DB said that if players were being idiots, he could put them all in their own instance and what better way of collecting idiots than to let them form their own clan. FD can the target the clan and separate them from the game which is MUCH better for the community as a whole.

That is actually quite brilliant. If FD have the ability to do this, then lets get this implemented right away. Im sure FD would have ways of monitoring player/clan activities. Pick the clan that is ruining the game for everyone else (which you could monitor through players reporting clans) and put that clan in its own instance.

I am of the philosophy that "a person is smart, but people are stupid".
I'd like to think that troll clans are the way they are because no-one in that group has the courage to say "Hey guys, this is wrong and we need to be better".
If you remove these clans from open play and put them into private instances then individual players will eventually remove themselves from these clans and join more reputable ones with an actual leadership and a code of conduct, or they won't be allowed to play with everyone else.
No-one is saying that you are forced to join a clan...... but if you do join, make sure it is a decent one. Even start a FD controlled page with a list of clans that have been moved into private instances.

 

[hunvagy]

Oh, absolutely agree with you.
Some of people's concerns on this thread are valid (most are ludicrous nonsense from people who don't read the entire thread and just make up stories in their minds). I also agree that if you give an inch, people will want to claim the entire damn continent.
If you read back on the suggestion (which I tried to clear up and simplify on Page 5 of this thread), and only limit the clan mechanic accordingly, then it shouldn't give anyone any unfair advantages or break the game in any particular way.
I would really love for people to actually read the thread before making up crap stories in their minds and posting irrelevant opinions.

Just because we give someone an inch, doesn't mean we need to give them the whole mile just because they ask for it.

Let's try and keep the concerns and ideas based on what was proposed.
There was no mention of taxes, or restricting access, or making bases destructible, or any of those other invalid concerns.... so I have no idea where these people got their idea's from.
I merely presented an idea, a suggestion. Like Braben has mentioned, clan based gameplay is coming. It's unavoidable. So lets provide some useful thoughts on how it can be created and implemented without it breaking the game for anyone.

Hehe, yeah, my first reaction was kneejerk with the base destruction, but I did got back and added an edit. Since the bases itself are attackable (the NPC ones), the player one should be too. But I agree, let's drop that until it's an actual game.

 

[Jex =TE=]

"Go away this is my area of space"."pay me 100 tax" Little Hitlers trying to run the game. All that palaver was in eve O been there played that. Its nice to have ED different than the mainstream formula.

What is the issue that you and many others seem to have? With 400,000,000,000 star systems how many planets do you think that might hold. Let's say on average each system has 3 planets which means there's 1200,000,000,000 instances of "my little space" and there's not even 1,000,000 playing the game.

 

[EValve]

so to be honest I cant say I am a fan of MP with randoms in general, and I believe adding too much support for guilds will lead to guild targetted content and the end of the road for the lone wolf... .Something I believe must not happen in ED.

assure that once you're given an inch, other groups won't start the usual caterwauling that they need more?

Slippery slope fallacy.

I hold this community at higher estime than CoD's talking about who's mother and what not.

Maybe they will cater for more, maybe they won't. And if they do, whatever ideas and suggestions they will cater will require independent discussion and analysis.

As far as this one is concerned, please indulge me if you disagree, it does not marginalize lone wolf gameplay. There's nothing to keep these features from being accessible in solo play. There's nothing from these features that I can deduct would degrade solo play that isn't already coming. ( should you consider pirate outposts available to be raided degrading. )

The creation of the "inflatable base" will be accessible in all modes. The clan tag will deduct nothing from solo play. There's no targeted content to be spoken of as of yet except a miserable already under the hood name-tag.

We can not, can not, dismiss ideas based on preconceptions and past experiences. It is prejudice that leads nowhere.