Oh, brilliant idea. Make clan/outfit/guild (whatever the heck you want to call them) stations without the Black-Market to discourage bad behaviour. In fact, make the nearest Black-Market over 500ly away from their station. This way, it would force groups to do trade runs rather than pirating to build their bases up/upkeep.
We need the ability to form in-game clans
- Thread starter TRLOS
- Start date
Oh, brilliant idea. Make clan/outfit/guild (whatever the heck you want to call them) stations without the Black-Market to discourage bad behaviour. In fact, make the nearest Black-Market over 500ly away from their station. This way, it would force groups to do trade runs rather than pirating to build their bases up/upkeep.
I just have to respond to this. You have a game that involves PVP, you've already consented to PVP the moment you joined the open world. It's the same with any other game that has PVP in it. Taking this moral high ground is nice and all, but when I'm fighting over resources, I'm not going to ask for your permission, that's just the nature of the game. People take being killed in PVP way too seriously and over play being the victim way too much. That's why the devs created solo/private group play. And to that extent, it indirectly involves PVP. Want to do power play in a group? fine, but you are pvping against other groups by indirectly stopping them from achieving their goals. PVP is nothing more than a means to an end, to stop one player from achieving their goals, its a competition. Don't want to be apart of that, FD has created a little safety net just for those who don't.
TO be honest, PVP at this point is very shallow. The "killing for no rhyme or reason" is because PVP is really, really, shallow. Adding player bases and resources to fight over would actually provide meaning to this PVP. So here you have a game that has PVP, with no real reason to PVP, people complained that they get killed for no reason. I got news for ya, It's because there is no reason! It's whatever you imagine it to be, that's it. Adding actual game content to facilitate PVP would potentially help gravitate the pvpers to those corners, and you might find less people getting killed for "No reason" just sayin.
If the creator of this game "HATES" clans and such, as you say. Then don't make a game with multiplayer in it, don't add support for groups and wings and the like, because essentially groups ,and communities, and clans do get formed, in just about every game with multiplayer in it. Everyone is just focusing on the "bad" aspects of multiplayer, it's like very few people on this forum has ever even seen the good aspects of multiplayer.
PvP is supposed to be rare and meaningful, per FD themselves, not commonplace and without reason. It's allowed to happen, that's it, it's not rewarded unless your target has a bounty, otherwise it's actually punished BY having a bounty put on your head, even in PP. MOST people doing PP aren't working against anyone else, they are simply working to get the rewards and salary, that's it, PvP doesn't factor in at all in any way, they don't care about PP, they just want the goodies.
And yes, PvP in this game IS shallow, it's not designed for PvP, it punishes for it for pity's sake! And what does that have to do with anything? The gankers would be ganking no matter WHAT PvP offered, they get punished for it now and still do it.
David Braben is on record many times being against guilds, 2014 EGX presentation, flat out, 'will there be any guild support?' No, because he doesn't like guilds and all the things associated with them in MMOs, most of which are the extreme fringe cases, not the norm, but they DO exist so his point is valid for him, sucks but hey, it's HIS game after all, people keep forgetting that! I love his game, his vision for it, I would LIKE some other things with it, but hey, it's his game, he's never been coy about that fact, he's making his vision, not ours. Chris Roberts is the same way, and that's why I'm backing it as well, it's missing things I love in Elite but has things I want that Elite doesn't have, like all that guild support stuff. No exploration to speak of compared to Elite, but it's got guild stuff from the ground up. Chris likes guilds and teams, so he caters to them. David doesn't like them, he doesn't cater to them, he's rethinking that a bit thanks to the Fuel Rats, showing the other side of the guild equation, but he made no promises and gave no time lines, so it's still up in the air, IF we get something, per David, 'it won't be like any other game does'.
Please GOD keep that out of E: D. The Elite franchise is what it is, and what it has been...one pilot, alone, making his way in the universe. FD have already accommodated the idea that other humans exist in this universe, but to move away from the fundamentals of "its all on you" makes Elite some other franchise. Those interested in that should advocate for that franchise. That's not this franchise.
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Because most multiplayer is
for the average gamer; in fact, in most multiplayer environs that allow such foolishness, you almost MUST "clan up" in order to function in the environment, and those that seek to have an experince outside the rabid groups of players cannot. Interestingly, Elite IS that single-player experience, definitively. Always has been. Simple. Keep clanning out of Elite, please.I think to a point, we have similar views. More or less you are echoing what I just said in response to your previous post to a point. However, there will always be toxic pvpers in any game you play. I myself have backed both SC and Elite, so that being said. I used the word "Potentially" For a reason, because the people like myself, and other people who are like minded like me, would just go out of the bubble and do our thing. I can't guarantee for fact that all the nasty gankers will leave the area and stop harassing newbs, but a few might.
As for PP, yes it is indirect pvp, anything you do regardless of whether it is intentional against another player or not, you are indrectly pvping. For example, your goal is to supply x product to x system to reinforce it, the enemy wants to undermine or stop materials from being transported, You are still competing with another player, even if you don't see them. Then you have military strikes, well killing stuff for merits still helps the faction your fighting for which is in turn against other factions, that other players are in, the pvp is VERY indirect, but to a point you are always competing with another player, or group of players, that's what I'm getting at. Otherwise we'd have no ranking for our PP factions.
I also want to add that I like your view on the idea that player groups actually doing non-toxic things can show and encourage more support for a mostly non-toxic pvp environment.
No, I will not keep clanning it out of Elite, or any other game. sorry, but I will continue advocating for more social features and interaction. You obviously have not played many multiplayer games if you say "multiplayer is for the average gamer" That's highly ignorant. I could just be very well saying that your "Solo" play is for the average gamer. But I'm not that ignorant. You have no reason to advocate inhibiting a group of people wanting to work together, other than just deliberately attacking a player for the sake of them wanting to be in a group and do things that would involve player groups. Why? because it would remove your feigned god mode?
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Actually there is keybind to target a target's target. Use F1-F4 shortcut for wingman, press button, can target what they are targeting. As for wings, I do recall quite a lot of people wanted it, but as usual many more complained because reasons.
Sure we have done this before lol.
Big groups exist, many as minor factions now. The concept the group "influences" the minor faction in the game through the BGS, I quite like as it scales from small groups to large groups and is PvP agnostic - PvP just becomes a tool (and a rubbish one at that). Battles are through the BGS. we had an attempt to remove the Code from its starting system, maybe ongoing for all I know. As a shady criminal group, not sure they are too fussed about influence level, but other groups will be.
The challenge is how far do you go with control of the minor faction handed over to the player group? Some want control/ownership of the system/space/stations, but how do you implement this for players in solo and private? Exercising control would need to work across the 3 modes. How do you stop your enemy using your station, taking missions from the other minor factions in the station when they are in solo and destabilising your control?
Gating of membership is the other question. If/When we can tag our support of a minor faction, who controls whether a player can tag for a minor faction or not? Powerplay does not allow the player group to gate membership - and has problems with 5th columnists and players signed up for the benefit not contributing to the greater good of the power. Without ceding validation to the player group the same problems would exist with minor faction player groups.
I do think when/if you can sign up to a minor faction, you should get a searchable comms tab of all others signed up in the comms panel, parallel to and of the friends tab. I am not sure there is much FD can do about the 8 channel voice limit they have already said their are technical barriers, but text channels - something between local and direct to a friend could help.
Just my thoughts, mostly the same as last time. Personally I am opposed to guild ownership if resources, other than that I think large player groups such as the Fuel Rats have added to ED.
Simon
Big groups exist, many as minor factions now. The concept the group "influences" the minor faction in the game through the BGS, I quite like as it scales from small groups to large groups and is PvP agnostic - PvP just becomes a tool (and a rubbish one at that). Battles are through the BGS. we had an attempt to remove the Code from its starting system, maybe ongoing for all I know. As a shady criminal group, not sure they are too fussed about influence level, but other groups will be.
The challenge is how far do you go with control of the minor faction handed over to the player group? Some want control/ownership of the system/space/stations, but how do you implement this for players in solo and private? Exercising control would need to work across the 3 modes. How do you stop your enemy using your station, taking missions from the other minor factions in the station when they are in solo and destabilising your control?
Gating of membership is the other question. If/When we can tag our support of a minor faction, who controls whether a player can tag for a minor faction or not? Powerplay does not allow the player group to gate membership - and has problems with 5th columnists and players signed up for the benefit not contributing to the greater good of the power. Without ceding validation to the player group the same problems would exist with minor faction player groups.
I do think when/if you can sign up to a minor faction, you should get a searchable comms tab of all others signed up in the comms panel, parallel to and of the friends tab. I am not sure there is much FD can do about the 8 channel voice limit they have already said their are technical barriers, but text channels - something between local and direct to a friend could help.
Just my thoughts, mostly the same as last time. Personally I am opposed to guild ownership if resources, other than that I think large player groups such as the Fuel Rats have added to ED.
Simon
I belong to a group that is represented as a minor faction first in one coriolis station and is expanding to another. We used the background simulator to increase the influence of that faction by doing missions for it and fighting in conflict zones until it was the controlling faction. It then expanded and appeared in another nearby platform where we are also working.
Nearby is another player group doing the same thing and we keep eyeing one another suspiciously.
This is not Powerplay, it's the BGS: background simulator.
Some of the group members are very active, others less so. It's all fine.
What the OP is asking for seems to be already in the game, just maybe most folk don't know about it?
Just go to the groups forum.
Nearby is another player group doing the same thing and we keep eyeing one another suspiciously.
This is not Powerplay, it's the BGS: background simulator.
Some of the group members are very active, others less so. It's all fine.
What the OP is asking for seems to be already in the game, just maybe most folk don't know about it?
Just go to the groups forum.
OP, please just pick a game offering clans and you will be fine.
Hearsay is NOT a fact.
I agree. Although I don't think it's a given that there has to be any guild/clan system implemented at all, beyond what is already being explored via minor player factions that might eventually become powers (ie not player-led powers though). And a player group can't actually even blockade an area in open even now, not effectively at any rate - nothwithstanding the option to change modes, the P2P instancing and matchmaking, and player numbers limit per instance, means it is impossible to effectively blockade even in open. Even though some still don't get it and continue to try to blockade anyway....
Yes, it involves PvP, but it is not PvP centric or focused (despite the insistence of some). Elite: Dangerous is a PvE game environment in which PvP is permitted. Those areas in which PvP is regularly engaged is still a very tiny number of systems compared to the total number even within the inhabited zone, let alone the galaxy as a whole. So 99.99999 (recurring) % of the total game area (I would argue) has no regular PvP in it at all, indeed probably no PvP at all at any given time. And yet some continue to claim/insist this is a PvP game. In fact, even in open it will always be a primarily PvE game simply because the game area is so large that by far the majority of time one doesn't even see other players unless deliberately entering those systems that serve to concentrate some players (eg starter systems, CGs). Even Powerplay is primarily a PvE construct within which PvP can be used to contribute. Based on that, no, when I join open I am not consenting to PvP - in fact what I'm consenting to, and accepting, is the possibility, within my PvE game experience, that I'll potentially encounter another player at some point that wants to PvP and who might try to impose that on me whether I want it or not. That's not exactly the same as me actually wanting to participate in that PvP, so I might choose to run or high wake out. At least that's how I approach it.
Unfortunately the MP engine does mean you can't blockade but there's always a chance you will be. The issue is further compounded bu the awful instancing mechanic as even with only 2 ships in the system they may never see each other.
I think that's where the BGS and mission system can be used to good affect going forward. You could expand the BGS to incorporate "states of relations" between minor and major factions (not necessarily all in the same system), sliding from allied status to open warfare. That, in turn, opens up specific missions on both sides where the factions are the principle antagonists and the players (and NPCs) the protagonists...
At the moment, taking a mission introduces a potential factor that you may be interdicted by an NPC who is attempting to prevent the mission completion. Open that mechanism up to the multiplayer domain and you start getting meaningful wing formation (for those players supporting each other) or PVP (obviously, the opposite) which isn't just about the lolz. I.e. Meaningful player interaction.
No one consents to being killed by another player, let me rephrase, you've agreed that you will possibly encounter a PVP scenario upon joining open play. I'm not saying that everyone who joins open play is joining PVP, my apologies for that misunderstanding.
Moving on, I think your statement about PVP happening in such a small tiny fraction/corner of the universe is the problem with pvp in general, or lack there of. As I said in my previous post having more content to facilitate the possibility of PVP would be quite fun, I'm not suggesting players should own entire systems, but small outposts and the like, fighting over control of rare resources found on planets. Or hell forget pvp entirely, allow player groups to work together by living out on the frontier, gather exploration data, building small outposts somewhere else in the universe and having a life there etc. in a very base form to a point the game is moving toward that direction, look at the nebulae station for instance. I would just like to see players be given the oppertunity to expand on the depth of the multiplayer aspect of this game, you know for those who want to multiplayer. =x.
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Given that there's 400 billion stars, the number of systems without PvE combat or trading, is around 99.999999 (recurring)%. So by that rationale, the game doesn't exist... Just a galaxy to look at.
The game could easily accommodate hubs of activity that could attract PvP. Central trading hubs and the like.
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At the moment these are created by CGs.
And joining into the rationale, it's a non combat game first, a PvE game second and a PvP game last.
Are there CGs that give PvP a point, beyond just a gentleman's agreement to duke it out?
Not exactly, the game in the area of space you talk about is exploration (but, yes, a galaxy to look at if that's all exploration is). So taking that argument even further, that amplifies the game is not PvP-centric as it's predominantly a PvE exploration-based environment then.
Already does, through CGs in particular, and in part through Powerplay. And there's the finite number of starter systems for those who think PvP = ganking noobs. Even if another 20 permanent hubs specifically targetted at attracting PvP were added, as it were, it would still be a tiny proportion of the game environment and the game would STILL be primarily a PvE environment.
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No thank you. I hope this never happens. I've seen the ugly that comes from this. I like elite the way it is.