Your post above was quite snarky though.
Toxic regards,
Socially Awkward Gamer Bro with a Mom who didn't do her job
We Need to be Better as a Community
- Thread starter Gavin786
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Toxic regards,
Socially Awkward Gamer Bro with a Mom who didn't do her job
Deleted member 38366
D
Long Thread, but it got me thinking...
Petty Details aside, the OP is onto something. Fundamentally, because we're all humans. Simple as that.
Looking at myself, I certainly - like many others - have built personal preferences, have things that I like, things that I dislike - and openly argument and discuss along those likes/dislikes.
Along the way, I'm sure I got a little grumpy over the years, occasionally a tad sarcastic or maybe cynical. And I'm convinced naturally others will have liked or disliked that just as well, as that's not a 1-way road.
So after having followed this Thread a little and with 2020 arriving soon(tm), I thought : Well, how about some change? Maybe this works...
Thus, I made the decision to what I can only describe as pushing a "reset button".
Let's try this, it can't harm. If it turns out to be a mistake - I can reconsider anytime. At least I tried
I even emptied what I call the "Dust bin".
Maybe that's a helpful inspiration to others.
And just because it fits quite well :
Petty Details aside, the OP is onto something. Fundamentally, because we're all humans. Simple as that.
Looking at myself, I certainly - like many others - have built personal preferences, have things that I like, things that I dislike - and openly argument and discuss along those likes/dislikes.
Along the way, I'm sure I got a little grumpy over the years, occasionally a tad sarcastic or maybe cynical. And I'm convinced naturally others will have liked or disliked that just as well, as that's not a 1-way road.
So after having followed this Thread a little and with 2020 arriving soon(tm), I thought : Well, how about some change? Maybe this works...
Thus, I made the decision to what I can only describe as pushing a "reset button".
Let's try this, it can't harm. If it turns out to be a mistake - I can reconsider anytime. At least I tried
I even emptied what I call the "Dust bin".
Maybe that's a helpful inspiration to others.
And just because it fits quite well :
Or they come in with a bit of criticism and immediately get jumped on by you or Ezren or whoever with a snarky reply. I'm just saying, it really works both ways on this forum.
Also a funny observation: both sides of whatever the discussion is about, tend to call the other ones 'a vocal minority'.
Meh, I just don't like extreme points of view in general I guess.
I appreciate the intentions behind this post. I also like the concept of a victims dilemma in the face of one-sided or overzealous moderation. And your rules of thumb for reducing toxicity are good.
It would do the forums a world of good if we did not post anonymously either.
One small exception if I may - naming and shaming.
Sometimes the actions of individuals are egregious enough to be called out to the community. The direct and heated debates we had with griefers involved in seal clubbing had some impact on Frontier developing a better crime and punishement system in addition to a better starter experience for new players. This is not to say it is perfect. The naming of reddit forums where UA bombers planned the attack on Dove Enigma is another example. In both cases, calling these actors out (if only indirectly) had the impact of community involvement for the common good.
I'm not arguing your reasoning on this matter is ill advised. It is well taken to my mind. But these guidelines can't be rigid rules as there are circumstances which arguably necessitate breaking them.
Nonetheless, nicely done.
The thing that's consistently amazed me about gaming forums since the dawn of the internet is how many people take them seriously. I mean you can tell my actual 'please take this comment 100% seriously' posts on here pretty easily - they're the ones where someone asks something like 'hey, what's the biggest fuel scoop you can fit on an Anaconda?' and I reply 'class 7 mate'. As soon as we move into opinion rather than simple factual answers an element of hyperbole will creep into some responses, but that's just me. People often chuck out 'would you talk to people in real life like you do on the internet?' and in my case the answer is 'err yeah, I do. All the time actually.'
We're discussing a computer game here but some of the stuff I see on the forum is so overwrought that it's frankly impossible to take it seriously. I'm actually quite envious of people who can find the emotional energy needed to (for example) post for weeks about the colour of a button in the interface, or the supposed evils of a virtual currency, because on my own list of life concerns, these are things that would come in at about #127,568 on the list, right after 'are Wagon Wheels really smaller than they used to be or are my hands just bigger?'
Genuinely toxic behaviour is dealt with pretty well on here by the mods. I don't see much at all in the way of racism, sexism, religious intolerance etc and when it does appear, it's usually dealt with promptly. A bit of t1t-for-tat (God these wordfilters...) name calling is not 'toxic' behaviour, it's something that most reasonable adults should be able to deal with and if necessary, give a little back in kind. Frank exchanges of views are not something that I expect to be protected from as an adult.
I've never gone through life expecting that everybody is going to love me, like me, or care about what I have to say. Firstly it avoids disappointment and secondly, it means I don't have to hold others to unreasonable standards either.
We're discussing a computer game here but some of the stuff I see on the forum is so overwrought that it's frankly impossible to take it seriously. I'm actually quite envious of people who can find the emotional energy needed to (for example) post for weeks about the colour of a button in the interface, or the supposed evils of a virtual currency, because on my own list of life concerns, these are things that would come in at about #127,568 on the list, right after 'are Wagon Wheels really smaller than they used to be or are my hands just bigger?'
Genuinely toxic behaviour is dealt with pretty well on here by the mods. I don't see much at all in the way of racism, sexism, religious intolerance etc and when it does appear, it's usually dealt with promptly. A bit of t1t-for-tat (God these wordfilters...) name calling is not 'toxic' behaviour, it's something that most reasonable adults should be able to deal with and if necessary, give a little back in kind. Frank exchanges of views are not something that I expect to be protected from as an adult.
I've never gone through life expecting that everybody is going to love me, like me, or care about what I have to say. Firstly it avoids disappointment and secondly, it means I don't have to hold others to unreasonable standards either.
Certainly smaller.... They were still a real 'hand filler' when I was 18... the only growing I've done since then is around the waistline
Deleted member 110222
D
I take a snarky sarcastic approach because that is exactly what everyone else does.
Just people don't like it when I do so because I'm not following the desires of this game's "aristocracy".
Basically then my real life. Act the same, but get shouted at for not conforming.
inhales deeply
exhales with satisfaction
Wouldn't have it any other way.
winks
I agree with pretty much all of this. That is not a reason not to try to be polite or tolerant of different playstyles & approaches to the game.
That you are amazed that people talk seriously about relevant topics to a niche forum is the main point where my view differs from yours. The official forum of the game developer is exactly where I would expect that kind of conversation to be.
I'm willing to bet that you only disagree with the first sentence of his post.
Which I agree seems kind of disconnected from the rest of it, but we've all been there. I agree on agreeing with the rest of it though.
It's not the talking seriously I have a hard time with, it's the taking of oneself overly seriously. I can discuss games all day. I expressed that badly.
Yep. Important topics with critical debate that exist solely within the context of the game; which in its overall context is ranked below the Wagon Wheels concern in terms of actual personal investment required and umbrage both given and received.
Though now that the WW question has been answered, Pretend Spaceman Details can move up a rank in importance!
So often people start out by just stating an opinon, then lose themselves in trying to be right because ego.
I'm not inpervious to that by any means. But at the very least I try to be conscious of it.
Fair enough
It's difficult to understand more precisely what you have in mind without being specific, and that vicious circle of examples & counter-examples is probably best avoided considering the response the OP received to the example thread they referred to.My aim is almost always to find the common ground - I look for ways to accept other views rather than ways to disagree for the sake of it.
But I also generally only post when whatever view I have has not already been said. That inevitably means I more usually take the minority view when I participate in a thread. I think you probably do too.
Fair enough
Yes, I was deliberately not heading into that territory. It's not a good place to visit.
Or they come in with a bit of criticism and immediately get jumped on by you or Ezren or whoever with a snarky reply. I'm just saying, it really works both ways on this forum.
Also a funny observation: both sides of whatever the discussion is about, tend to call the other ones 'a vocal minority'.
Meh, I just don't like extreme points of view in general I guess.
Sir, this is the internet.
I think I'm reading a little bit of sarcasm here, which implies you should be able understand my sarcasm as well (and I suspect you did). Same applies to a lot of people reacting to my post. Is it just that sarcasm as a delivery method is OK only when you agree with the message?
But seriously, nasty/snarky as a default mode of communication in the gamer community is just sad. That sort of stuff works (in a humoristic sense) with your mates in real life, but definitely doesn't in a wider context, especially when limited to written communication (and involving people who aren't native English speakers, but even native speakers are very likely to misread the intended tone in written communication). People who insist on doing it anyway are either wilfully or out of ignorance making the community very exclusive. And as I said, judging from how a section of the gaming community reacts to all attempts at inclusiveness in the industry, these people are dead set on keeping it exclusive. This flies in the face of actual statistical facts and potentially hurts the games' bottom line. I seriously don't understand FDev's laizzes faire attitude to the community.
Holy hell this thread is still going.
Lesson 1: Just because people can say things, doesn't mean they should be listened to. Likewise, if you don't like what someone's saying, don't listen. Lord knows, too many people think others should be silenced because they can't follow this simple lesson.
Lesson 2: Those that declare others "toxic" are very often no only hypocrites, but instigators. "People shouldn't call each other 'names', those stupid 'names'. I can excuse myself for doing it because I'm on this high horse I climbed up on".
Lesson 3: It's your own problem if you read things wrong. A lot of people like to use the 'language barrier' excuse or speak on behalf of those with a language barrier. If you don't understand, you ask.
Lesson 4: Unwatch and ignore.
Lesson 1: Just because people can say things, doesn't mean they should be listened to. Likewise, if you don't like what someone's saying, don't listen. Lord knows, too many people think others should be silenced because they can't follow this simple lesson.
Lesson 2: Those that declare others "toxic" are very often no only hypocrites, but instigators. "People shouldn't call each other 'names', those stupid 'names'. I can excuse myself for doing it because I'm on this high horse I climbed up on".
Lesson 3: It's your own problem if you read things wrong. A lot of people like to use the 'language barrier' excuse or speak on behalf of those with a language barrier. If you don't understand, you ask.
Lesson 4: Unwatch and ignore.
No matter how I read this, it makes sense
Written English is easy to misinterpret (puts up hand) and read entirely 'wrong'... Whereas 'spoken' tonal inflection serves the purpose of delivering a message with a much reduced chance of errors.