We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

We need to increase speed and acceleration for eagle.

I think it needs to be able to stay on 6 of every other ship in PVP (save for Viper and Cobra), right now the best tactics for big guys against it is to just boost, turn around and 1-hit you to death with anything they have.

It's all because of it's slow max speed and acceleration (it should gain speed normally faster than Anaconda gains it using boost).

I have the skill - it's just the flawed ship design that let's FdL's and Clippers fly away from me.

Imagine a situation: you're in your tanked FdL just finished another small hauler. Everything is good. Now you see a wing of 4 eagles coming your way from 5km away. You turn you face toward them, and start accelerating backwards until they are gaining on you very slowly. Now at about 2.6km you one-shot one of them with simultaneous fire of 4 railguns, they boost towards you - you manage to down another one to 1% hull, but 2 others are stuck to your 6 and they are slowly eating at your shields no matter how much you boost and turn. But you know you have a lot of shield banks and can go to sc any time you want. While you try to evade, another pair of eagles jumping in - you didn't notice them until they are too close. Now you're in real trouble as presence 4 eagles mass lock FdL and their fire is dropping your shields a lot faster. You have to do your best not to die while slowly chrging your friendship drive. But then you friend in anaconda appears. He instantly kills one of the eagles and others quickly boost away from your deadly pair if big ships.

This is a good fight that could happen if eagle would have more speed and more acceleration than it have now.

But what we have now is an FdL killing all 6 eagles without doing any piloting, just flying backwards and one-shotting very slowly approaching targets

 

[Jorlin]

We need to increase speed and acceleration for eagle.

I don't need to....

 

[Darth Ender]

the eagle is fine as-is. If you're hitting above your belt in one then stick with a wing, otherwise it's perfectly capable at fulfilling it's role as intended.

 

[Jorlin]

and another thing i don't need to is voting in public polls

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Communist systems probably need it, but strong capitalist factions can beat any communist's upgraded Eagle with their regular Eagle!

Also, the Eagle has maneuverability, whilst the Viper has speed. The Eagle, in a dogfight, can destroy any Viper, but if the Viper pilot knows how to effectively use his vessel, the Eagle pilot will die. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

I think it needs to be able to stay on 6 of every other ship in PVP (save for Viper and Cobra), right now the best tactics for big guys against it is to just boost, turn around and 1-hit you to death with anything they have. It's all because of it's slow max speed an acceleration (it should gain speed normally faster than Anaconda gains it using boost).
I have the skill - it's just the flawed ship design that let's FdL's and Clippers fly away from me.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

Communist systems probably need it, but strong capitalist factions can beat any communist's upgraded Eagle with their regular Eagle!

Also, the Eagle has maneuverability, whilst the Viper has speed. The Eagle, in a dogfight, can destroy any Viper, but if the Viper pilot knows how to effectively use his vessel, the Eagle pilot will die. Makes perfect sense to me.

Let's duel on Eagles sometime? I'll teach you a lesson or two about advantages of communism. Unless you live over the pond - then we will have to fight with your awful ping instead.

 

[GoblinOneEye]

The Eagle is very good for the price point it hits. It does an excellent job teaching combat focused pilots and acts as a forgiving stepping stone towards the Viper.

 

[Defacto]

The Eagle is very good for the price point it hits. It does an excellent job teaching combat focused pilots and acts as a forgiving stepping stone towards the Viper.

This is the problem. It's a stepping stone, nothing more. It pretty much has nothing on the Viper, except for some manueverability.
And cost? Irrelevant. Especially since the Viper also is really cheap.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

The Eagle is very good for the price point it hits. It does an excellent job teaching combat focused pilots and acts as a forgiving stepping stone towards the Viper.

If the main goal of a ship is to be a stepping stone - it's a bad design. Each ship should have a purpose - so you would want to use it despite your billion in bank account.
It should be like rock paper scissors - Eagle beats FdL, FdL beats Viper, Viper beats Eagle - but with more ships involved and some overlapping

I've seen too many videos on youtube of idiots in big ships acting as a huge turret killing small fry and getting exited about something. I want them to start moving around and maybe charging their friendship drives when they see my Eagle approaching.

 

[GoblinOneEye]

The sidewinder and hauler occupy similar seats in the multirole and trade professions, both serve as a step to something better. The Eagle doesn't need to be better for the same reason the hauler doesn't need more cargo space. The ships don't exist as lateral decisions.

 

[obliterator]

If the main goal of a ship is to be a stepping stone - it's a bad design. Each ship should have a purpose - so you would want to use it despite your billion in bank account.

I agree. Right now most of the ships are just stepping stones to the FDL, Python, Anaconda and Type-9. Variety is pointless if it's to end up with 4 different ships.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

The sidewinder and hauler occupy similar seats in the multirole and trade professions, both serve as a step to something better. The Eagle doesn't need to be better for the same reason the hauler doesn't need more cargo space. The ships don't exist as lateral decisions.

I disagree. Sidewinder is the best ship for smuggling right now. Least suspicious. At least that is what Frontier wants it to become. And they definitely want to make all ships useful.
There shouldn't be a direct progression that buying bigger ship makes you better at everything. Bigger ships should have trouble fighting small interceptors - right now it's just a simple boost or two, turn around and fire a couple of times - that's it.

 

[Mephane]

The funny thing is, if the Eagle had always been that fast, none of the people here arguing it were fine the way it is, would complain "nerf the Eagle, it does not deserve to be fast".

 

[Jorlin]

The funny thing is, if the Eagle had always been that fast, none of the people here arguing it were fine the way it is, would complain "nerf the Eagle, it does not deserve to be fast".

wasn't this what happened to the viper in beta?

 

[GoblinOneEye]

wasn't this what happened to the viper in beta?

You're not wrong.

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I disagree. Sidewinder is the best ship for smuggling right now. Least suspicious. At least that is what Frontier wants it to become. And they definitely want to make all ships useful.
There shouldn't be a direct progression that buying bigger ship makes you better at everything. Bigger ships should have trouble fighting small interceptors - right now it's just a simple boost or two, turn around and fire a couple of times - that's it.

I agree with you to a point. A more expensive ship should, and does, outshine a less expensive ship filling the same role. The eagle is still quite good, but trying to fight ships outside of it's weight class should be a dangerous prospect. As it stands going one on one with a larger ship is definitely dangerous. Wings do a lot to balance this out however, as working in a group of eagles is actually extremely effective. Even NPC eagles working in a group are able to knock out shields pretty quickly.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

I agree with you to a point. A more expensive ship should, and does, outshine a less expensive ship filling the same role. The eagle is still quite good, but trying to fight ships outside of it's weight class should be a dangerous prospect. As it stands going one on one with a larger ship is definitely dangerous. Wings do a lot to balance this out however, as working in a group of eagles is actually extremely effective. Even NPC eagles working in a group are able to knock out shields pretty quickly.

I don't see it. Take FdL again - be it 1 eagle or 4 or 8 of them - you just quickly boost out of their range, turn around and then 1 hit them with pulse lasers. Repeat until finished. +jump away any time you feel like it. There is no skill involved in this fight, no danger - just old stupid "i'm a big turret with impenetrable shield" tactics. Adding speed and acceleration to eagle will solve this.
And I'm talking about PVP here - who cares about stupid AI, which will always be nerfed enough to submit to any commanders skill level

 

[GoblinOneEye]

I don't see it. Take FdL again - be it 1 eagle or 4 or 8 of them - you just quickly boost out of their range, turn around and then 1 hit them with pulse lasers. Repeat until finished. +jump away any time you feel like it. There is no skill involved in this fight, no danger - just old stupid "i'm a big turret with impenetrable shield" tactics. Adding speed and acceleration to eagle will solve this.

You're right, and where I differ is I don't think a 50 million credit combat-ship should be vulnerable to a 40,000 credit ship. A pilot needs to pick their fights, or choose a more capable craft. The Viper fills the role you're alluding to quite capably. If every space craft was more or less equal there'd be no point in cost progression. If, for example, all the ships cost roughly the same, I'd 100% be right here with you. But they don't. So I really think it's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. Hunting a FDL with an eagle is just unrealistic, though there are many fights where the eagle is still very capable.

You mentioned that cost of the eagle vs. the viper is insignificant, but I would argue to a new player starting out their first million is much more significant than someone's 50th or 100th million.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

You're right, and where I differ is I don't think a 50 million credit combat-ship should be vulnerable to a 40,000 credit ship. A pilot needs to pick their fights, or choose a more capable craft. The Viper fills the role you're alluding to quite capably. If every space craft was more or less equal there'd be no point in cost progression. If, for example, all the ships cost roughly the same, I'd 100% be right here with you. But they don't. So I really think it's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. Hunting a FDL with an eagle is just unrealistic, though there are many fights where the eagle is still very capable.

Maybe we just need situations where eagles will have advantage - some closed space areas - inside a hollow asteroid or inside abandoned Coriolis station. Maybe I'll be satisfied when fights in planets atmosphere become available. Maybe those new space-ship cemeteries would completely hide small ships from the radar, but the bigger you are the easier it is to target you.

I would be alright with some space-craft the size of an Eagle costing 50 million and being better than Eagle in everything. But when the size of a ship goes up -it must sacrifice maneuverability and speed for it - you pay for huge shields and cargo space and canons that can rip through other big ships fast and convenient, but you shouldn't be able to touch small interceptor - that's not your big ship's area.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

You mentioned that cost of the eagle vs. the viper is insignificant, but I would argue to a new player starting out their first million is much more significant than someone's 50th or 100th million.

I don't think I compared prices for eagle and viper somewhere before. If we are going to discuss stuff let's keep our records straight at least.