We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE

[Zplintz]

You don't seem to be listening to my points. I am not concerned about myself, I love my Vulture, but for the fact I can't get my friend to play with me because he doesn't want to grind to get a ship that doesn't instantly die in PvP to any hardcore player with even a smidgen of skill.

That does not bode well for the future of elite, and it greatly reduces the playerbase. I want to still play this game in 10 years time

Again you have a specific instance where a friend of yours cannot even be bothered to do basic combat until he/she has enough (a relatively small amount) of credits to buy better than the the starter ship and so the balance of the ships should be changed.

The game will be fine without players who cannot be bothered to a small amount of effort in.

 

[hanks01]

Again you have a specific instance where a friend of yours cannot even be bothered to do basic combat until he/she has enough (a relatively small amount) of credits to buy better than the the starter ship and so the balance of the ships should be changed.

The game will be fine without players who cannot be bothered to a small amount of effort in.

Seconded. It doesn't take long to go from Eagle to Viper and it certainly isn't a grind. I wonder if some people expect this to be a standard multiplayer, pick your ships and wait in a lobby experience. It's not World of Tanks, it's an open world sandbox that doesn't have a linear narrative through line where so much of the joy is in discovery, working towards goals that you set etc...

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I love flying the Eagle, it's a lot of fun and I recently jumped into one after being just below the rebuy of my FDL to get some cash back. When I'm in my FDL I shouldn't start running from a tiny little ship with piddly lasers that I have no chance of getting into my sights. It's not a tank, it's highly maneouverable and can handle most combat situations. There's a reason for this, it's a combat focussed ship that has no reall potential to be multi-role in anything... and it's expensive.

If you're getting 1 shotted in a wing of 4 against rail guns from a distance then you might just be doing something wrong. Also, not every ship should be the best in something, after all, there are going to be 30 ships in total and there aren't 30 things you can do in the game the excel at. Otherwise what is the point of credits? Would you really fly a hauler when you have a Type 6 No, the Type 6 carries more so if you're trading that's the wise choice. Would you expect an Eagle to outperform an FDL in combat? No. The suggestion that it should is quite bizarre.

What I look for in a ship:

Pitch rate

Yaw Rate

Roll Rate

Vertical/lateral speed

Vertical lateral acceleration

Turn rate outside of blue zone

Number of hardpoints

Shield strength

Hull strength

Stealth

Power Distribution

Being small/hard to hit

Jump range

Cargo capacity

Ramming ability

Speed (boost)

Speed (straight line)

Hardpoint placement

Acceleration (straight line)

Fuel Efficiency

Subsystem health

Interdiction

Cargo Scooping

Cockpit visibility

Aesthetics

Hardpoint size

Shield recharge rate

Fuel tank size

Heat efficiency

Number of utility slots

Power plant capacity

That's more than 30 just off the top of my head. We haven't got anywhere near the maximum number of specialisations a ship could have. Hell, we haven't even got a decent stealth ship. There's no need to start abandoning perfectly good ships to the dustbin of unviability

 

[rmhepton]

The Eagle is fine and a huge amount of fun. It's great to muck about in without the worry of massive insurance payouts.

Watch the video below it's awesome..

https://youtu.be/FIm3dfDH7Bs

 

[FuzzySpider]

You don't seem to be listening to my points. I am not concerned about myself, I love my Vulture, but for the fact I can't get my friend to play with me because he doesn't want to grind to get a ship that doesn't instantly die in PvP to any hardcore player with even a smidgen of skill.

It is the nature of Elite, and always has been, that you can't just sign up, jump into your ship, and dominate the universe. You need patience, skill, and some degree of study and evaluation to work out what ship suits the kind of game you want to play and how it fits with your own skill set. That's how most people like it. There are myriad of quick and easy games where people can go PvP without any grind at all.

That does not bode well for the future of elite, and it greatly reduces the playerbase. I want to still play this game in 10 years time

I really wish people would stop using the passive-aggressive "If you don't make the game I want nobody else will play it" argument. It smacks of elite arrogance. Just because you'd rather see something different that really doesn't mean the rest of the world does too.

 

[Zplintz]

100's of posts predicting EDs imminent demise since the KS have proved to be completely unfounded so far.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

It is the nature of Elite, and always has been, that you can't just sign up, jump into your ship, and dominate the universe. You need patience, skill, and some degree of study and evaluation to work out what ship suits the kind of game you want to play and how it fits with your own skill set. That's how most people like it. There are myriad of quick and easy games where people can go PvP without any grind at all.



I really wish people would stop using the passive-aggressive "If you don't make the game I want nobody else will play it" argument. It smacks of elite arrogance. Just because you'd rather see something different that really doesn't mean the rest of the world does too.

You need patience, patience and yet more patience atm, don't pretend grinding is hard for any reason other than boredom. I have seen so many terrible pilots in FDLs and Condas it's unreal.

The proposed changes wouldn't make the Eagle a "good" combat ship by any account. Just lets it run away when it's losing. Why is it so vital to the future of elite that noobs are murdered rather than given a chance to flee?

I don't mean to be a doom mongerer and apologies if I'm melodramatic, but if the only players this game can attract are grinders addicted to their skinner box mechanics the playerbase will surely dwindle when they run out of things to spend money on

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

The Eagle is fine and a huge amount of fun. It's great to muck about in without the worry of massive insurance payouts.

Watch the video below it's awesome..

https://youtu.be/FIm3dfDH7Bs

This video is fun. But see how the author has to triple video speed during big turns (at 1:39) to make it look more dramatic. This means Eagle lacks in speed. Besides it has nothing to do with combat - it's just a race between eagles.

Eagle desperately needs more speed.

 

[hanks01]

What I look for in a ship:

That's more than 30 just off the top of my head. We haven't got anywhere near the maximum number of specialisations a ship could have. Hell, we haven't even got a decent stealth ship. There's no need to start abandoning perfectly good ships to the dustbin of unviability

But none of those listed on their own are a speciality. Having the biggest power plant isn't a speciality, it just changes what you can and can't do with a ship, or the sacrifices you may have to make in balancing it. Combat ability of a craft is a combination of several things that you listed. If we're talking about the Eagle it certainly wins in the hard to hit stakes, as well as how maneouverable it is.

If you're in an Eagle and you see an FDL, you don't try and attack it and get behind it, you run and hope that it doesn't come after you. A small speed buff wouldn't be the end of the world, but 415m/s would make it one of the fastest ships in the game which isn't necessary for a small ship that is either a good starter ship or a millionaires play thing.

Also flying a ship that owns everything in space does not directly equate to fun. The vulnerability of the Eagle is part of what makes it enjoyable, being the smallest fish in a combat zone can be a tense experience. Scoping data in Lugh was great fun in an Eagle, more enjoyable than it would've been in my FDL.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

But none of those listed on their own are a speciality. Having the biggest power plant isn't a speciality, it just changes what you can and can't do with a ship, or the sacrifices you may have to make in balancing it. Combat ability of a craft is a combination of several things that you listed. If we're talking about the Eagle it certainly wins in the hard to hit stakes, as well as how maneouverable it is.

If you're in an Eagle and you see an FDL, you don't try and attack it and get behind it, you run and hope that it doesn't come after you. A small speed buff wouldn't be the end of the world, but 415m/s would make it one of the fastest ships in the game which isn't necessary for a small ship that is either a good starter ship or a millionaires play thing.

Also flying a ship that owns everything in space does not directly equate to fun. The vulnerability of the Eagle is part of what makes it enjoyable, being the smallest fish in a combat zone can be a tense experience. Scoping data in Lugh was great fun in an Eagle, more enjoyable than it would've been in my FDL.

Surely the nature of combinations of stats means the possibilities for ships are virtually endless?

But I digress. I definitely agree with you, and I like the way the eagle is so vulnerable to direct fire. To reiterate, I feel the eagle should be cheap, light, fast harrassment that's big ships can't catch unless they attack it while distracted

 

[Poseidal]

Seconded. It doesn't take long to go from Eagle to Viper and it certainly isn't a grind. I wonder if some people expect this to be a standard multiplayer, pick your ships and wait in a lobby experience. It's not World of Tanks, it's an open world sandbox that doesn't have a linear narrative through line where so much of the joy is in discovery, working towards goals that you set etc...

I think it actually took me longer to go from Eagle -> Viper than any other ship. Maybe it was a mixture of just starting and learning the ropes, and it being gamma period where income was lower, but that's how I kind of remember it.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

Also flying a ship that owns everything in space does not directly equate to fun. The vulnerability of the Eagle is part of what makes it enjoyable

I'm taking this quote a tiny bit out of context, but how about you apply this statement to your big ship? Anything feels funny here?

 

[FuzzySpider]

You need patience, patience and yet more patience atm, don't pretend grinding is hard for any reason other than boredom. I have seen so many terrible pilots in FDLs and Condas it's unreal.

When you compare with other games you don't, you really don't. You can, from the first moment you hit launch, go exploring, do missions like carrying cargo or picking up contraband to smuggle in space, trade, or hit RESes to do a bit of bounty hunting. There are options to break any monotony to the grind from the get-go.

The proposed changes wouldn't make the Eagle a "good" combat ship by any account. Just lets it run away when it's losing. Why is it so vital to the future of elite that noobs are murdered rather than given a chance to flee?

It's already good for what it is; a cheap combat vessel. Acceptable in a fight (if it has a few numbers) but not much else. Given the price of it that's perfect. Buffing it would really require an increase in price to justify that, and then you'd be condemning new players to a longer period of grind in the sidewinder. That's the last thing you want as you seem to be asking for a vehicle which is combat effective against FDLs but can be purchased by someone who has only just installed the game. That really is something that would be ruinous to Elite.

I don't mean to be a doom mongerer and apologies if I'm melodramatic, but if the only players this game can attract are grinders addicted to their skinner box mechanics the playerbase will surely dwindle when they run out of things to spend money on

Most MMOs are grindfests. World of tanks has the same 20 odd maps going around and around and around. They've even started putting the same maps out only (gasp!) with different weather. You do the exact same thing in that game every time you play. Choose a tank > Click "battle" > look at the field > Work out where you are most useful > Try to beat the enemy > Die/win > Repeat. It's got far less depth to it than Elite already has and that isn't suffering at all for it.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

It's already good for what it is; a cheap combat vessel. Acceptable in a fight (if it has a few numbers) but not much else. Given the price of it that's perfect. Buffing it would really require an increase in price to justify that, and then you'd be condemning new players to a longer period of grind in the sidewinder. That's the last thing you want as you seem to be asking for a vehicle which is combat effective against FDLs but can be purchased by someone who has only just installed the game. That really is something that would be ruinous to Elite.

Why would a wing of 4 eagles ruin you game if they become a considerable danger to your FdL or Python? If a single Eagle is constantly shooting at you - it just means that you need to use shield banks 20% more often - nothing more
4 of them means you need to run. Would mean if their speed will be upped.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

That's the last thing you want as you seem to be asking for a vehicle which is combat effective against FDLs but can be purchased by someone who has only just installed the game. That really is something that would be ruinous to Elite.

Care to explain why? The FDL could just jump away anyway, but considering how many people get burnt out when they reach the expensive vessels, I think a bit of thrill, challenge and (dare I say it) danger would spice things up quite a bit for them.

It's irrelevant anyway, the speed boost would not let it kill FDLs

 

[hanks01]

I'm taking this quote a tiny bit out of context, but how about you apply this statement to your big ship? Anything feels funny here?

But I don't fly the FDL to feel constantly vulnerable. I like the Eagle for that, I also like the FDL because it's awesome for a different set of reaons. It also has the risk of a high rebuy so I need it to be safer than an Eagle and I expect at the cost of it (I'm hardly cash rich) that I wont ever have to run from an Eagle or two. I got taken out the other day by an FDL and two Vultures whilst I was chatting to a friend and didn't start running until it was too late so it's not invincible.

 

[Poseidal]

Why does it need an increase in price to justify it? Price shouldn't come into it, apart from the size of the ship and equipment.

Remember, in Elite, you're not paying for quality, you're just paying massive taxes - 300% minimum and likely far higher on top of luxury (and the ship is also your house).

The price should pay for some things, and even have an advantage. But there should be physical limitations for the ships, and advantages in a small frame.

Having a cheap 'disposable' ship also makes no sense, as wings are 4 players, not 4 points worth of ships. Maybe if a Wing could contain 5 Eagles per slot and something like a Fer de Lance would take two slots in your wings, it would matter.

Having linear upgrades like an RPG takes as much depth away than having it like some kind of arena too.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Why would a wing of 4 eagles ruin you game if they become a considerable danger to your FdL or Python? If a single Eagle is constantly shooting at you - it just means that you need to use shield banks 20% more often - nothing more
4 of them means you need to run. Would mean if their speed will be upped.

4 A-Spec eagles are a danger to FDL depending on how good the pilots are. But a decent FDL or python shouldn't feel the need to run at all, they should be able to have not only a chance but good chance. Without the array of ships, and having large and powerful vessels like this to go for, the game is just another spacey shoot em' up.

Care to explain why? The FDL could just jump away anyway, but considering how many people get burnt out when they reach the expensive vessels, I think a bit of thrill, challenge and (dare I say it) danger would spice things up quite a bit for them.

It's irrelevant anyway, the speed boost would not let it kill FDLs

Yes. The danger in this instance being the spectre of 10k vehicles throwing themselves at your 50m vehicle whenever they see you for "teh lulz" because they know they've got a fair chance with ultra low insurance costs. The spicing up of things would be the notion that grinding for a week to purchase a weapon for your FDL, which on its own costs as much as (and I'm not exaggerating) more than 1200 eagles, is a total waste of time because any one of those eagles has the ability to have a decent pop at you.

I know where you're coming from. I loved Colony Wars too. That game was great. The problem is this Elite, a very different game indeed. It seems you want to turn it into a more generic space shooter with spacecraft being little more than the avatar you're choosing to use to fight battles. An extreme distortion of your point of view, admittedly, but that is the direction you want to pull the game in.

 

[Kaeldian]

Eh, I always saw Eagles as something that flies in swarms as part of an escort for something larger. They aren't really solo fliers. My only complaint about them was all 3 guns are small hardpoints. I sometimes think it would benefit from having it's high hard point converted to a medium. That would still give the Viper the edge, but give the Eagle a bit of bite.

Erm, scratch that medium idea - just realized how silly that would look.

Thing just isn't a solo flier. I've learned not to ignore them too long, even in my vulture. 3 small thermal weapons can really add on on a shield if you ignore them.

 

[Krait_79]

If the main goal of a ship is to be a stepping stone - it's a bad design. Each ship should have a purpose - so you would want to use it despite your billion in bank account.
It should be like rock paper scissors - Eagle beats FdL, FdL beats Viper, Viper beats Eagle - but with more ships involved and some overlapping

I've seen too many videos on youtube of idiots in big ships acting as a huge turret killing small fry and getting exited about something. I want them to start moving around and maybe charging their friendship drives when they see my Eagle approaching.

The Eagle is a cheap ship it should suck in comparison to someone who has spent millions on their ship!