Throwaway stuff is great when you can do something with it, before the actual throwing away thing. Current Eagle is only good for going directly into trash - bad choice. With more speed it would become a great throwaway asset.
We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE
- Thread starter BEKTOP 3APEMOB
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Firstly, money, I couldn't afford the rebuy on my FDL so a Vulture was out of the question. Secondly the Vulture is a bigger target. Thirdly, fun.
The rebuy argument is obvious if you don't have the money for multiple rebuys. Also the FDL mass locked my FDL.
Power creep has already entered. Too late! What we're looking at now is ways to make the old ships useful again.
Once again, no one is suggesting to increase the performance of the Eagle ''to the point where it could take on a FDL or vulture with a view to destroying them''. This is a speed increase, that fits the Eagle's role as a relatively light fighter and courier (technically it's a Heavy Fighter).
With ''comparable'', I mean that there should be situations where the Eagle is a ship that would be more suitable than one of the heavier more expensive ships. Being cheap is not that. Being cheap is not a ''niche'' or a ''suitable role''.
As already established, it is possible to balance the ships so that the larger expensive ships remain attractive, while there still are proper reasons to fly the smaller cheaper ones. This has been done in some other cases already, will be done in other, and should be done with the Eagle!
Then you should sell of some of your ship components. You're still better off than if you were using an Eagle.
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Terrible idea for a quick bit of cargo scooping fun. Not going to sell off components for a Vulture when I can have a perfectly decent Eagle to have fun with..... or is it a problem that I like the Eagle without the speed boost?
Counter-question: wouldn't you like it more with a speed buff?
Well, it's terribly inoptimal. Buy a Cobra then. Faster, more survivable. A bit more expensive in rebuy, but as long as it isn't A-fitted it is pretty irrelevant.
If you just choose an Eagle because it is fun to fly, then that's great, but a ship shouldn't be underpowered because it is fun to fly, so I do not think the pure fun factor matters in this discussion.
Yes, and even more with 50 huge hardpoints and 1 million SCBs.
"Well, it's terribly inoptimal. Buy a Cobra then. Faster, more survivable. A bit more expensive in rebuy, but as long as it isn't A-fitted it is pretty irrelevant.
If you just choose an Eagle because it is fun to fly, then that's great, but a ship shouldn't be underpowered because it is fun to fly, so I do not think the pure fun factor matters in this discussion."
I wanted some quick bank in a small ship without traipsing across the galaxy to pick up my Cobra... also, I wouldn't get money rebuys out of the Cobra in that area. But to be honest, optimal didn't really come in to it. For me the Eagle was fine for what I wanted to do, which was scoop a few bits of data (each one worth more than the rebuy of the Eagle) with minimal financial risk.
There was also a nice little bonus to it as well, which was people assuming I was new and inexperienced. The one time a Vulture did jump me (I was busy scooping) and blew me up, I then got into the FDL (flying without insurance, I know) and jumped him when he came out of the station. Got him down to 80% hull before he jumped which was rather satisfying. Got back in the Eagle and carried on, made quite a large amount of money compared to the value of the ship.
If you had a good time in your Eagle, that's great.
You have to admit though, at this point, you're not really arguing against what was proposed in the OP, you're just trying to change our rather bleak outlook on the Eagle, which I guess is commendable, but I just think you are wrong, and no anecdotes of yours are going to change that.
I guess it does have its uses, in certain financial situations, and I'm sure the ship has many fans, but this still doesn't mean that it is in a bad position that needs to change.
There's potential, potential for a fast stealthy courier/fighter, a niche that isn't occupied by a ship. This ship should occupy that niche.
True, my intention of promoting the Eagle as is does intend to counter the OPs position that the Eagle needs a change. Whilst dumbfire missiles have been nerfed since launch I also have strong memories of the Siege of Lave and how a 415m/s Eagle, or wing of them, would have made things much much worse for the traders who tried to run and the bounty hunters who tried to stop them (it was a great time had by all... well, except some traders...)
Sorry, but no, I can't see that at all. No traders except those flying haulers would get FSD slowdown from Eagles, and the traders are still slower than the Eagles right now.
Instead, imagine if those pirates would fly ferdelances with 400 m/s boost speed, or Vultures that, while slow, actually have serious firepower. Also, ferdelances might actually have a chance at running from bounty hunters.
Dumbfires were crazy, but dumbfires aren't crazy any more.
The only thing I might argue for is a higher top speed but not more acceleration. The biggest drawback I found flying an eagle was that there were ships I couldn't beat and couldn't flee from. Once you get into a viper that is basically no longer true. (Tho I haven't tried to outrun a fdl in one I confess)
So the role of the Eagle is to be a combat ship for newbies, to be discarded after 2 days again? Is that it?
Well, that's true if the trader submits to an interdiction, granted they usually do. However that puts them in no different a situation than a Cobra or other pirate equipped vessel that goes after something it can't masslock.
I'm sure some people would pirate in FDLs but the substantially higher cost, versus minimal cargo capacity to make decent profit from a mark kind of negates both the Vulture and FDL as valid piracy choices. Whilst I wouldn't recommend an Eagle for piracy, the fact that 6 tons of gold could well cover its rebuy is a pretty big thing.
It's one of the perks of the FDL that it can run. To build a good one requires fair capital investment (assuming it's not solely for the trade grinders who haven't really done any combat but feel they need the big shiny) and it's not something you can just throwaway for a lot of players considering its rebuy.
On a completely unrelated note, I've just lost my second FDL after reversing full speed into an asteroid. The irony that I was trying to take out an Eagle is not lost on me.
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
There are players defeating AI Elite Anacondas in Eagles. What more are you asking for? It already IS an excellent fighter in the hands of a capable pilot - which goes for any outdated modern fighter craft still in use by some airforces.
Don't forget fun, you definitely forgot fun. Considering it's stats it's only beaten in all quarters by the Vulture. If someone can get one of those within 2 days they either have Od'd on Red Bull or someone has dropped them some Palladium.
Ferdelances have vastly superior cargo carrying capability to an Eagle, so I don't see what your point there is. Cobras have vastly superior firepower to an Eagle, and Cobras can also masslock Type 6 freighters (I think?).
I've flown a Cobra for about 3 months now. I've been fired upon by capital ship main batteries, station security guns, and 8 players at once. I've not lost my ship a single time. In Lugh I fought in a wing with an Eagle pilot (couldn't afford a ship that wasn't just a stepping stone ''noobie ship''), and any time enemy players attacked, they always went for him and immediatly obliterated the poor Eagle. He lost a lot of credits and only managed to get a few shared bonds (which he lost because he didn't manage to cash them in). When we had to retreat, he would also always get left behind and destroyed, because he was the slowest ship in the wing.
Irrelevant! There are players defeating AI Elite Anacondas in Sidewinders! No, just because someone has defeated an Anaconda with an Eagle does not make it an excellent fighter.
I am yet to see a player defeating an elite Anaconda in a ZP Hauler though. That would be hilarious.
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Would you get less fun from the game with slightly faster Eagle? Why are you fighting the idea? I really can't get you.
I think it's the people who are used to level-based games like WoW who are against it. They think the Eagle is small and cheap, so it has to suck, and be an NPC rat ship they can easily farm. It's the only way I can make sense of the opposition.
The Eagle is a fine and atmospheric ship. It's fun to fly, has a good sound-scape and it's very fragility makes it interesting in combat.... except it's been made so slow it can't use that agility and is a victim for every ship from the Viper up. *sigh*
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Again, I think it can only be a preference for easy-mode ratting. For that there need to be useless victim ships. Like the shieldless lunatics that have been added to the game for some reason.
I would love to see a Venn diagram showing the set of people against a faster Eagle, and the set of people against free switching between Open and Solo...
I suggest you to be a bit careful where you take the discussion. If you go in that direction, it's easy to start attacking people instead of their arguments. I think this topic is pretty important, so I strongly advise you to watch your words... I've seen good and important discussions get ruined by this kind of thing before. Not that I think you intend to insult, but you know... internet discussions. It's easy to misunderstand intentions and meanings. Make sure you discuss the discussion and not the people doing the discussion.
I fear that this is a kind of thinking that goes far beyond WoW. Really, I think pretty much every MMO made the last 10 years in some way follow this formula.
ED needs to not follow this formula. It doesn't really. Not in the majority of cases, at least. That is also why I think this suggestion has a good chance of being heard by FD.