Weapons in foot combat are a joke

[Morbad]

I bet the devs decided to use Star Wars as the base for weapon accuracy...lol

A lot of tactical shooters, aside the more simulationist kinds, make weapons artificially inaccurate, especially when moving. By and large, at the ranges most combat takes place in, any firearm would be accurate enough that accuracy would be irrelevant...which is apparently bad for gameplay when the gameplay neglects most other engagement ranges.

In CQB scenarios all these increased blooms for movement, or aim-down-sights benefits, are very artificial gameplay contrivances. Anyone can quickly learn point shooting, or firing from the hip, to reliably hit a person at these ranges. In the real-world I wouldn't even need to take my sidearm out of my coat pocket to put half the magazine into someone's chest, at ten paces, while hopping on one leg, and I am not a good shot. Likewise, even an unchoked shotgun doesn't spread 00-shot more than a handspan or so at 10m. Most tactical shooters seem to want me to ADS outside of melee range and have cones of fire that would make a flame thrower look like a precision instrument.

Only thing more annoying in modern tactical shooters are all these supposedly professional soldier types with half my years and ten times my conditioning that get winded after a 50 yard jog. If I recently woke up from a five year coma, or just got back from a year in microgravity, I'd be out-sprinting my Battlefield or Elite Dangerous character.

 

[Rhaazerus Orzhov]

This is one of my main disappointments with Odyssey.
I have literal pages of gripes and critique of Odyssey's first-person gunplay and movement, but I'll spare the wall of text.

There are a plethora of good FPS games out there that FDev could have drawn from;
Tarkov has excellent gunplay and sound.
Battlefield games have smooth player movement, vaulting, and weapon customization.
Metro Exodus is a fantastic example of immersive and non-intrusive HUD elements.
Mirror's Edge & M.E. Catalyst are among the best parkour/ player movement games and have enjoyable first person hand-to-hand combat.
Games like Arma 3, Star Citizen, and Red Dead Redemption 2 have a POV that is actually within the character's eye-level.
(as opposed to Odyssey's first-person POV which is akin to a go-pro attached to your character's neck.)

Again, I could write a thesis out of all my Odyssey critiques,
but I just don't understand why FDev didn't draw from the many games already out there and say "that's a cool thing, let's do that."
FDev has no other FPS games under their belt besides Limnal Gate from a different developer studio, and sometimes seeing Odyssey makes me wonder if maybe there's an experience limitation there.
(I obviously don't mean any offense, I'm no game dev myself so anything they produce would be leagues better than what I could do. Just a critique from a gamer's viewpoint.)

 

[Ryox]

I just don't understand why FDev didn't draw from the many games already out there

It's because they did, but it's you who tunnel-vision on the type of games that you like.
OD took inspiration from the best arcade shooters, like Quake, Halo, Overwatch, Apex Legends and Fortnite.
Like it or not, those games are 10x more popular and played on the pro-scene than the ones you mentioned (and imho, in those, only Tarkov and Arma are competitive, the others are casual).

Edit: And I know I'll make people laugh by writing Fortnite here, but I had to mention the game that is actually the most played on earth.

 

[The Own of Noon]

I think the on foot, srv, and spaceship modes all strike a good balance between game and simulation

I haven't been able to On-Foot combat for a while due to RSI but when I did...

View attachment 336666

High CZs are fun and winnable, though I do lose on occasion, which keeps it exciting...

I did most of my slaying in the storebought G3 duds almost just like this. It'll do. I feel just slightly twinked out now that I upgraded most my stuff to grade 4. I use the executioner and launcher, but the burst laser pistol (Zenith)

But P-15 are particularly satisfying way to shoot unshielded folks though. Hands down. I mean, stick em up!! "Ahhh they got me".

 

[Northpin]

But P-15 are particularly satisfying way to shoot unshielded folks though.

Having headshot on it makes it quite spectacular, but even without it it's really fine

 

[Ryox]

Having headshot on it makes it quite spectacular, but even without it it's really fine

I was very surprised the first time, but actually P-15 often dominates the shotgun in close-quarter fights

 

[Age of Exile]

@Ryox. I downloaded the guides you posted on page 2 of this topic. How exactly do I find "ground CZ" missions? Sorry, all this is new to me and sounds interesting to do. Have not played in over a year. What type of mission tier would you recommend at first? Are the tiers predefined based on limited rep? I see you can make a build, is this based on CR and reputation earned?

 

[Ryox]

@Ryox. I downloaded the guides you posted on page 2 of this topic. How exactly do I find "ground CZ" missions? Sorry, all this is new to me and sounds interesting to do. Have not played in over a year. What type of mission tier would you recommend at first? Are the tiers predefined based on limited rep? I see you can make a build, is this based on CR and reputation earned?

Awesome, thx for getting the guides! And if you want to learn more about on-foot, welcome to visit our discord. People can help you with everything over there, including Toqueville!

---
About ground Conflict Zones, they are not actual "missions" (missions are specific tasks that you get from a Terminal). CZ can be found in Systems that are at War (BGS state) with the involved Factions owning OD Settlements. Inara has a tool to find such Systems: https://inara.cz/elite/nearest-misc/ .

When you're in one of those Systems, you'll have 2 ways to join a ground CZ:

1) Find a Station (the "large" ones only, like Coriolis) or Planetary Port that has a counter for "Frontline Solutions". Here they'll show you a detailed map of the System with all the current CZs and their level of difficulty (Low/Med/High Intensity). From there you can select one and embark in an automated dropship that will bring you there (and back when you finish).

or

2) If you already know where CZs are located, you can fly and land there with your own ship, pledge for a side and join the fight. The System Map shows you all CZ locations (since U14), but not their Intensity Level. To know the latter you'll have to visit Frontline Solutions at first or just try your luck.

---
You should choose CZ's Intensity Level according to your Suit and Weapons "Grades":
Grade 1: Low Intensity / Grade 3: Medium Intensity / Grade 5: High Intensity.

---
You can buy gears in any Stations at "Pioneer Supplies" for some CR.

About upgrading and adding "Modifications" on your gears, it works similar to ships. There are Engineers and "crafting recipes" for each ones. They all require to collect on-foot "Materials" (Assets, Goods and Data). You can get Materials from Missions Rewards, looting straight from OD's Settlements, exchanging with a Bartender or trade them directly between Cmdrs.

Blueprints and upgrades | Elite:Dangerous | INARA

The companion site for Elite:Dangerous with the game database, market data, trade routes, outfitting, engineers, blueprints, crafting, Thargoid war, squadrons, logbooks, galleries, galaxy information and much more...

inara.cz

Good luck and o7!

 

[zimms]

It's because they did, but it's you who tunnel-vision on the type of games that you like.
OD took inspiration from the best arcade shooters, like Quake, Halo, Overwatch, Apex Legends and Fortnite.
Like it or not, those games are 10x more popular and played on the pro-scene than the ones you mentioned (and imho, in those, only Tarkov and Arma are competitive, the others are casual).

Edit: And I know I'll make people laugh by writing Fortnite here, but I had to mention the game that is actually the most played on earth.

I completely agree.

I'm just a bit disappointed because many years ago, it seemed to me Frontier was trying to make Elite feel at least "authentic" if not "realistic". But it's been moving away from Star Trek towards Star Wars more and more over the years. Away from Science Fiction to Space Fantasy.

I thought Elite players tended to fall in the former category, but maybe I was wrong or the player base changed as well over the years.

TLDR:
2014: No artificial gravity
2021: Magnetic trash

 

[Ryox]

Frontier was trying to make Elite feel at least "authentic" if not "realistic".

I'm a late-comer, started to play in 2019 with Horizons, but imho, ship combat in Elite is pretty arcade and similar to the on-foot spirit. It plays more like X-Wing than DCS.

 

[zimms]

I'm a late-comer, started to play in 2019 with Horizons, but imho, ship combat in Elite is pretty arcade and similar to the on-foot spirit. It plays more like X-Wing than DCS.

My inner grumpy old man compels me to reply with "I liked ship combat more before Engineering!!!".

 

[Ryox]

My inner grumpy old man compels me to reply with "I liked ship combat more before Engineering!!!".

What? You don't like invincible shields and jousting for 20min???
Edit: Until one of the 2 pilots get bored and high wake, haha.

 

[Ryox]

Let's be honest, on-foot combat is much better balanced than ship combat in this game.

 

[The Atlas]

there's no need to bother with other weapons when the plasma pistol and the plasma shotgun(executor?) can do the job twice as quick
2 exec shots on the chest and the shield and life is gone, alternatively you could spend 30 seconds depleting shields and shifting to other weapons, you do you, but doesn't sound balanced at all.

Yes its their game and their design, but if nobody voices their insatisfactions, they will either think noone cares=not worth fixing, or in case its too broken(in-game data), nerf to oblivion to not hurt the gameplay loop. Voicing the complaints, providing feedback(assuming they will even listen) is good to balance the horrible gameplay the guns have as of now, around 19 months later.

Yes the on foot combat is lackluster and yes the design on weapons is a joke, specially the long range rifle, which the projectile takes as much time to travel as would my nana running a triathlon.
There's no point on using other weapons since, as i said, the 2 plasma weapons even at no engineering/low engineering is more than enough to blast the weak AI away. And that was noted by some(or a) creators back in the alpha/release.

 

[Ryox]

plasma pistol and the plasma shotgun(executor?) can do the job twice as quick
2 exec shots on the chest and the shield and life is gone

Again, this is because you play PvE only, in PvP you'll probably struggle to do that (did you try?).

alternatively you could spend 30 seconds depleting shields and shifting to other weapons

That's just totally wrong. It's most probably you who are not managing your weapons switching correctly. Laser + kinetics TTK is very close to plasma.

 

[Northpin]

there's no need to bother with other weapons when the plasma pistol and the plasma shotgun(executor?) can do the job twice as quick

the plasma is very strong, but against static targets, else there is a chance you will miss alot

With good practice and binds that allow you to swap between weapons, laser/kinetic combo can be almost as fast as plasma and definitely has higher to-hit chances especially against moving targets (lasers is hitscan, kinetics - they have faster projectile speeds than plasma)


This

Again, this is because you play PvE only, in PvP you'll probably struggle to do that (did you try?).


That's just totally wrong. It's most probably you who are not managing your weapons switching correctly. Laser + kinetics TTK is very close to plasma.

 

[The Atlas]

Again, this is because you play PvE only, in PvP you'll probably struggle to do that (did you try?).


That's just totally wrong. It's most probably you who are not managing your weapons switching correctly. Laser + kinetics TTK is very close to plasma.

so 2 weapons are closer to one, and that's balanced? noted. and of course it's user error, how could i forget? not like the bullet sponginess is a game's issue, totally my mistake

and yes i play pve(you know, 96% of the content of the game), when i find another commander on another settlement on another planet in one of the billions out there, i'll try pvp out

 

[avow555]

Can't really fathom out how a company can make a 1:1 Scale galaxy then put some utterly useless things in it, ground combat weapons being one thing on a very long list...

 

[Northpin]

Can't really fathom out how a company can make a 1:1 Scale galaxy then put some utterly useless things in it, ground combat weapons being one thing on a very long list...

it's only a matter of perspective
i really enjoy the on-foot combat and the weapons (while i didnt play the recent fps games on the market, i extensively played the old school - Quake (but not so much), Unreal, Unreal Tournament (a ton, even participated and won local competitions), CounterStrike (a-ton).

and i've seen reports from players that were not in fps games enjoying the fps part in Elite.



What is obvious is they cannot please everyone
What is also interesting is the on-foot gameplay is not mandatory, it's a gameplay extension that you may or may not involve in it

 

[Ryox]

so 2 weapons are closer to one, and that's balanced? noted. and of course it's user error, how could i forget? not like the bullet sponginess is a game's issue, totally my mistake

Again, it works exactly liker ship combat (shields/hull, laser + kinetics or plasma). And really, shields (and even healers) have been a staple of FPS gaming since the 90's. It's just you who is too much into MilSim (more recent kind of games btw).

when i find another commander on another settlement on another planet in one of the billions out there, i'll try pvp out

But about this, I couldn't agree more with you. It's the real tragedy of OD, the current design makes it almost impossible to find PvP.
So if you want to try it you better join our discord (in my sig). o7

Edit: Actual On-Foot PvP
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/weapons-in-foot-combat-are-a-joke.611643/post-10023867