Wear & Tear logic

[jadefriendly]

the big honk

THE BIG HONK

i like that.

i think you can be lucky / unlucky with exploration. if you fail to find gas giants with life / earth like planets / terrarofming candidates, you can easily scan loads of systems for pennies. likewise, you can make a killing, 100k a system, if you stumble on a few good ones.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.

Please make it a reality

In an indirect way this would inject a kind of 2nd-hand ship market into the game. Which makes sense as surely such things would still exist in the future? If only for role-play reasons I think it would be a good idea.

 

[Mike Evans]

Please make it a reality

In an indirect way this would inject a kind of 2nd-hand ship market into the game. Which makes sense as surely such things would still exist in the future? If only for role-play reasons I think it would be a good idea.

No promises but that is what I want to have happen but design isn't a democracy

 

[TheNameIsJambo]

My Asp had 99% wear and tear and the repairs were expensive.. But I couldn't repair. Perhaps it wasn't a whole 1%.. But I was astounded at the repair price.

When I get interdicted, I usually just slow down. I have an FSI.. But I'm thinking of selling it, because it's far too expensive to use when compared to the returns. Most bounties out there are 2,000Cr. With the occasional 20-30K bounty appearing every now and again.

 

[Shaamaan]

IF it's really cheaper to self destruct than pay for repairs, then something is most definitely ...

 

[McDosy]

It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.

That would work. In real world terms, you're basically just saying the insurance is like-for-like instead of new-for-old, which is how car insurance is anyway. Give them a replacement ship with +/- 5% integrity if you want to be more realistic than your insurers finding one exactly the same.

It would be very nice to incorporate into the ship market too though, so I can't afford a brand new hauler, but maybe I can buy a bit of a junker and work to repair it.

 

[Darkfyre99]

IF it's really cheaper to self destruct than pay for repairs, then something is most definitely ...

It's the insurance discount Alpha and Beta testers got from Frontier Developments. Repair costs are scaled based on the undiscounted insurance deductible you pay, which means if you get a discount, massive repair bills will be less than your deductible.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

IF it's really cheaper to self destruct than pay for repairs, then something is most definitely ...

I sometimes think the same about my Lada. I think however given time, it will self-destruct by itself.

 

[Sparkie]

Surely this is just like RL ?
Wear and tear on a Ford Fiesta will cost nowhere near the same as a Range Rover or Porsche.
It goes back to the same argument each time, don't fly what you can't afford.

I don't think it does because the analogy doesn't work. Even if my car cost more to repair than the cost of a replacement after insurance, I would not get the insurance if I 'self-destructed' my car.

The point is not that we should avoid paying for repairs on expensive ships, it is that there is no point making the repairs cost more than insurance from undocking and self-destructing.

 

[Red Cypher]

I neglected it on purpose, wanted to see how high the repair cost goes. But after a day of interdictions I was very surprised to see that it is cheaper to destroy the ship compared to repairing it. I feel like I am forced to do trading to run anything bigger then Cobra. The numbers need to be looked at as the implementation right is feels just wrong.

To answer your question if wear and tear accelerates the process I think it does, it can be felt after interdictions mostly where hull takes up to 5% damage per drop.

You should just self destruct then, and buy a new ship. When you do, take a look at the repair cost for the new one.

The idea is, you're supposed to take care of your ship as you go, and the less you take care of it, the more expensive wear and tear costs get. Additionally, if you're ship is destroyed, the replacement you are offered is not a brand new ship, but it will be identical to the one you just lost in every way, including the wear and tear. Sorry, but they've already covered that little exploit. GG.

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It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.

Hmm... I thought you guys were already doing it this way. You really should.

 

[Bear]

Instead of making a claim on your insurance to get a second hand ship - could you just sell it and buy a new one - yes you suffer a 10% hit but that must be less than the cost of wear & tear surely?

 

[Sparkie]

It's the insurance discount Alpha and Beta testers got from Frontier Developments. Repair costs are scaled based on the undiscounted insurance deductible you pay, which means if you get a discount, massive repair bills will be less than your deductible.

If that's the reason, perhaps making repair costs be X% cheap (alpha-comparable) would be a simpler fix for FD in the shorter term than to rework the mechanic into a different system.

 

[Jigsaw]

It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.

Well, one solution would be to not build the ships out of tin foil. The rate of degradation is simply ridiculous.

 

[ciger]

Instead of making a claim on your insurance to get a second hand ship - could you just sell it and buy a new one - yes you suffer a 10% hit but that must be less than the cost of wear & tear surely?

Not with the more expensive ships. I am somewhere around 20M worth so the 10% would be a bit more. Maybe if I sold all the modules, weapons and stuff it could work as you propose.

 

[excalibus]

That would work. In real world terms, you're basically just saying the insurance is like-for-like instead of new-for-old, which is how car insurance is anyway. Give them a replacement ship with +/- 5% integrity if you want to be more realistic than your insurers finding one exactly the same.

It would be very nice to incorporate into the ship market too though, so I can't afford a brand new hauler, but maybe I can buy a bit of a junker and work to repair it.

now this idea has some merit to it be able to buy a second hand only been driven to Lave on sundays by a little old lady taking her kittens to market... Don't mind the scorch marks on the hull, that laser carbon will wash right off...

And look it only has 98,396 Lightyears on the clock... You will need to service it but if you buy it today we will inlude a free set of pulse lasers just for you


whattayasay? We got a deal?

 

[New Duke]

Wear & Tear worries me for long distance exploration...

SC seems to do a lot more damage that jumping. One SC trip to Hutton Orbital (takes about 80 mins in system) knocked about 40% off my Viper's hull integrity. Beware of long stints in SC.

 

[DocStone]

Wear & tear shouldn't be linear in charge rates either. Repairing 1% wear & tear 70 times should cost way less than repairing 70% wear & tear just the once. It should be cheaper to maintain if you regularly repair your ship, than if you leave it to fall apart, just like it does with a car

 

[Quineloe]

It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.

Why is wear and tear not part of repair all? Especially since the damage seems to be progressing, some players will be in for a nasty surprise when they find out about this. I was in an Asp when I learned of this.

 

[TheNameIsJambo]

My car has 31,000 miles on it, a 2009 plate [Oct' 09]. It's only needed new brakes, new bushes, new front tyres. It's just had its' MOT and it needed a new bulb... As far as I can tell, its' hull integrity is still 100%!

Having millions-to-pay for repair bills in a few hours of game time is pretty mental, but understandable, to reduce your earnings. Still, it makes the ships feel like they're built for short-term use. Having a second-hand ship market would be a good idea though. Shady used vessel merchants in Anarchy space you say?

EDIT:
^^ The repairs are too expensive to lump in with the general 'Repair All' repair bill, but a lot of people out there still won't know that this type of repair exists. They'll never check the Repair menu, when there's a Repair All button.

 

[pargyrak]

My car has 31,000 miles on it, a 2009 plate [Oct' 09]. It's only needed new brakes, new bushes, new front tyres. It's just had its' MOT and it needed a new bulb... As far as I can tell, its' hull integrity is still 100%!

Having millions-to-pay for repair bills in a few hours of game time is pretty mental, but understandable, to reduce your earnings. Still, it makes the ships feel like they're built for short-term use. Having a second-hand ship market would be a good idea though. Shady used vessel merchants in Anarchy space you say?

Take your car and go into a hail storm and accelerate. I had a windshield broken on my '06 Leon at 80Km/h while trying to get to safety (under a bridge). Roof, bonnet everything damaged.
Imagine hitting a hail size rock in space doing 300c..... It would rip everything apart in actual space