Wear & Tear logic

Pete

Pete
ciger said:
Maybe if I sold all the modules, weapons and stuff it could work as you propose.
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I had a big W&T bill after coming home from exploration in an Asp, and I wasn't ready to pay it at that time...I decided to do some trading first, so I unequipped my expensive auto-repair modules and my expensive fuel-scoop and bought cargo space. When I looked back at the W&T screen, the cost was massively decreased. So it seems that the W&T bill is related to the overall value of the ship, not just the hull.

Downgrade/remove/replace your modules, and you'll see the W&T drop to "reasonable" levels.

-- Pete.
 

TheNameIsJambo

T
Pete said:
I had a big W&T bill after coming home from exploration in an Asp, and I wasn't ready to pay it at that time...I decided to do some trading first, so I unequipped my expensive auto-repair modules and my expensive fuel-scoop and bought cargo space. When I looked back at the W&T screen, the cost was massively decreased. So it seems that the W&T bill is related to the overall value of the ship, not just the hull.

Downgrade/remove/replace your modules, and you'll see the W&T drop to "reasonable" levels.

-- Pete.
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So, just sell everything equipped on your ship, to bring the hull mass down, pay the W&T repair bill and then use the buy back feature?

Great way to get around it.
 

RealFury

R
Hmm, i don't usually do a lot of exploring / supercruising so i have not seen large wear and tear repair cost, but if i was flying an ASP with a 1.4 million credit wear and tear cost you know what i would do..... I would just sell all the modules at cost, then sell the ship for a 10% loss (~660k) and then buy it all right back again... i wouldn't even need to file an insurance claim and i could walk away with a nice shiny new ship... whoever developed this wear and tear money sink didn't really have their thinking cap on at the time to be honest. Unless the wear and tear comes in at under 10% of the basic hull cost then there is Zero reason to pay it, just sell everything then buy it back again all new and shiny.

I think a much better solution that has already been mentioned would be for wear and tear to actually effect the state of the modules you have fitted, so as you fly about your modules take little bits of damage over time and when they start getting too low you start getting those temporary malfunctions that happen when you get damaged, then you have 2 choices... you either give up a slot for an auto repairer that takes ammo or you have to do to pay repairs.. obviously an auto repairer would be the way you would have to go if you were exploring, so making ammo cost correlate to damage repaired would be one way to do it, would require some price tweaking but all in all i think its a much better way of doing it than having a totally unlinked wear and tear stat that only has an effect of reducing your resistance multiplier on your hull... letting your vessel get into a state of disrepair should have real consequences and you should run the risk of a full breakdown if you ignore the repeated signs of it.
 

Toscaner

T
what bothers me most since when wear and tear was changed to ship integrity, the paintjob was moved to module repairs

and as module repair is bugged and doesn't work at all, you always have to repair the whole ship including the paintjob

so it's impossible to actually see the wear and tear on the paintjob, and it seems quite some dev-effort went into this feature that is just wasted now.. so sad :(
 

buellpilot

buellpilot
beelbeebub said:
I think the OPs point was that the repair cost of the ship was 1.4m whilst the insurance excess was only 900k i.e. why repair when you could do an insurance job and torch your ship!
.

It's a good point.
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Because....

This is my Cobra.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My Cobra is my best friend.
It is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.
My Cobra, without me, is useless.
Without my Cobra, I am useless.

Don't invest yourself in the money that is only a game mechanic... Invest yourself in your ship.
People moan about content for the game, but they never want to give anything of themselves and have no loyalty to what they are 'supposed' to be in the game.
That ship that got you back to a starport with a blown canopy on more than one occasion... you are really just going to torch it in an insurance scam... shame on you.
 
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Jigsaw

Jigsaw
pargyrak said:
Take your car and go into a hail storm and accelerate. I had a windshield broken on my '06 Leon at 80Km/h while trying to get to safety (under a bridge). Roof, bonnet everything damaged.
Imagine hitting a hail size rock in space doing 300c..... It would rip everything apart in actual space
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You car doesn't have shields that are capable of protecting it from projectile weapons and it doesn't use a frame shift drive that actually warps space around you instead of having you actually drive through space. There shouldn't be any rocks hitting the ship at all at faster than light speed.
 

Cosmos

C
Mike Evans said:
It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.
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I was wondering about this myself. I also noticed that the ship paintwork no longer deteriorates.. I kinda like the battled look. ;)
 

pargyrak

pargyrak
Jigsaw said:
You car doesn't have shields that are capable of protecting it from projectile weapons and it doesn't use a frame shift drive that actually warps space around you instead of having you actually drive through space. There shouldn't be any rocks hitting the ship at all at faster than light speed.
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Then why the wear and tear From The time you exit SC till the starport?
 

Sunjunkiesi

S
It is a very RL mechanic that I, personally, approve of. If you neglect your car/house/bike/whatever maintenance for long enough, the cost to repair it will far exceed the cost of replacement. I'm sure we all know of someone that never put oil in their car, and had to get the engine rebuilt at a cost of far higher than what the car was actually worth. Not just the 5% excess, the TOTAL worth. If it's cheaper to self destruct and get a new ship, that's only a reflection of the dilemma many people face when their cars break down - whether through neglect or an accident.
 

Helfar

Helfar
Explored 4 systems, got 5.2K 2.8K 12.5K and 5.5K for them all. It took over an hour as 2 of the systems had suns 400,000 LS from each other. I then got charged 30K for repairs... ack :)
 

Zieman

Zieman
Sunjunkiesi said:
It is a very RL mechanic that I, personally, approve of. If you neglect your car/house/bike/whatever maintenance for long enough, the cost to repair it will far exceed the cost of replacement. I'm sure we all know of someone that never put oil in their car, and had to get the engine rebuilt at a cost of far higher than what the car was actually worth. Not just the 5% excess, the TOTAL worth. If it's cheaper to self destruct and get a new ship, that's only a reflection of the dilemma many people face when their cars break down - whether through neglect or an accident.
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No argument with this.

My only gripe with E: D w&t mechanic is the crazy fast accumulation of w&t. Using car analogy, you'd have to re-paint the car, buy new brakes, suspension & tyres every time you change oil, maybe new seats & windows too.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
Mike Evans said:
It's a good point that I was sure would crop up eventually. We will look into this but one of the original solutions we did think about before it was too late to add was to not get a fresh ship back from insurance. So your ship would come with wear and tear, possibly the same wear and tear as you left it. Thus at some point you need to maintain your ship or suffer the consequences of lower hull strength and what not. This however is just an idea. It might be a while before this gets the attention it needs and I don't know what the solution might become.
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Erimus said:
Please make it a reality :)

In an indirect way this would inject a kind of 2nd-hand ship market into the game. Which makes sense as surely such things would still exist in the future? If only for role-play reasons I think it would be a good idea.
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Mike Evans said:
No promises but that is what I want to have happen but design isn't a democracy :p
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But how is that possible? "Realistically" (as it's an SF game set in 3300s) looking - your ship is destroyed. Luckily you have an insurance for it. The insurance company gives you another ship and... what? Fly it around until it wears and tears to the level of your old ship W&T and THEN give it to you? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Unless I'm not getting it right - in which case, could someone with more brains explain it to me please? :)
 

zdaar

Z
rootsrat said:
But how is that possible? "Realistically" (as it's an SF game set in 3300s) looking - your ship is destroyed. Luckily you have an insurance for it. The insurance company gives you another ship and... what? Fly it around until it wears and tears to the level of your old ship W&T and THEN give it to you? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Unless I'm not getting it right - in which case, could someone with more brains explain it to me please? :)
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Those are big companies with access to shipyards (obviously) and it would just so happen that in one of those there would be a second hand ship already a bit worn and that's the one they would give you. Had your ship been in pristine condition you would have gotten a blinking new fresh one. Now of course you have to use your imagination for a bit because it really is a big coincidence that the used ship happens to have the exact % of W&T your old ship had but that's fine for me, I could deal with it !
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
zdaar said:
Those are big companies with access to shipyards (obviously) and it would just so happen that in one of those there would be a second hand ship already a bit worn and that's the one they would give you. Had your ship been in pristine condition you would have gotten a blinking new fresh one. Now of course you have to use your imagination for a bit because it really is a big coincidence that the used ship happens to have the exact % of W&T your old ship had but that's fine for me, I could deal with it !
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Hmmm, OK, let's say this sounds plausible. I can live with that :)
 

NeilF

NeilF
ciger said:
Did any of the developers actually give at least some thought to how wear and tear works? Flying an Asp I just checked my ship integrity which is @ 25% with repair cost of 1.4M cr. My insurance cost is about 900k cr. Why would I not just self destruct and would want to pay the 1.4M is beyond my comprehension.
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Sorry! Noob question. Where do you even see wear and tear? I keep hearing about it, but never seem to encounter it?
 

CMDR M Kozak

C
beelbeebub said:
I think the OPs point was that the repair cost of the ship was 1.4m whilst the insurance excess was only 900k i.e. why repair when you could do an insurance job and torch your ship!
.

It's a good point.
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Indeed!

Death is without any real consequense in ED at the moment. At times it can be beneficial even.
 
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