This thread would be the 'deal with it' part. What a toxic post Sleutelbos, much disappoint.
What Are Your Anti-Griefing Ideas?
- Thread starter Alien
- Start date
This thread would be the 'deal with it' part. What a toxic post Sleutelbos, much disappoint.
Increase ship rebuy without bounds the more commanders you kill and decay ship rebuy slowly over time.
It's pretty easy to judge in plenty of cases, too. There are a number of blatant, prolific griefers in the game.
If a user submits video of someone suicide-flying into them in a 1% hull Eagle inside a station, that's good enough for me.
Case closed: Shadow-ban. Someone is caught cheating with video evidence: Outright ban. Likewise, FD have the capability to examine logs in reply to complaint. A big ban hammer works well.
Social exclusion works *excellently* in practice. If I don't want to be hassled by a jerk, I don't socialise with them. I tell them to go away and I do not allow them in my home. Problem solved. I frankly don't care if being told to go away doesn't redeem them; they aren't in my way any more, so the solution has worked. If someone is consistently a jerk they are marginalised, and that does not sit well with us: We know that if we want to have a social life, we need to act in the manner that does not repel other human beings.
Why do you think these people stream their griefing? It's because it provides a level of social acceptance. So long as people are tuning in and watching them, it is social validation; they feel that as long as other people approve and watch then it legitimises their behaviour. They form a micro-society because they are human beings and require a level of approval and social inclusion.
This I agree with. Take responsibility for your actions, try not to spoil the game for others (which does NOT mean not chasing or killing them). Be their content, use others as your content, make friends.
Not playing in open has had a 100% success rate for me when it comes to not being griefed.
That's not a solution for players who wish to participate in the storyline events, nor for FD, given that the purpose of a CG is supposed to be to get the community together in a positive manner.
When a bunch of people come into your local pub, being objectionable, the solution is for the landlord to throw them out, not for the reasonable people to find another venue.
I expect that most of you who are saying "go into solo / private group" know perfectly well that a) these modes were not designed so that open could be left entirely to people with PvP combat builds and griefers and b) that it's not a great gameplay experience for an unknowing newbie to be (potentially repeatedly) blown to smithereens without warning just for being in "the wrong place" (where "the wrong place" is defined as "where most other people are likely to be) and that c) these sort of threads will carry on going so long as the extent of some people's replies basically amounts to "deal with it" because that sort of reply doesn't really help.
Just shouting out "go to Möbius" is the basic equivalent of saying that the expressed problem doesn't apply to you so you don't care. If that's the case, you may as well not bother taking part in the crime/punishment/griefers threads that come up. It's likely that anyone making a thread like this knows that the game modes exist and that they aren't a solution.
As an aside, the fact that Möbius itself is not without a history of griefers shows that, even as a really basic, incomplete, response to the issue, "use a private group" is broken.
Based on the live streams, I understand that these issues are things that FD is aware of and debates internally at length, but, equally, apart from some recent buffs to system security we haven't seen much come out of such debates as a concrete response. I've seen countless proposals from the user base, at varying different levels and attacking various different sides of the perceived issues and, to my knowledge, none has been officially recognised. Whether that means anything other than that a fuller response currently remains on the "too hard" pile, I can't say.
Either way, I guess we'll continue with threads like this for a while yet.
Just shouting out "go to Möbius" is the basic equivalent of saying that the expressed problem doesn't apply to you so you don't care. If that's the case, you may as well not bother taking part in the crime/punishment/griefers threads that come up. It's likely that anyone making a thread like this knows that the game modes exist and that they aren't a solution.
As an aside, the fact that Möbius itself is not without a history of griefers shows that, even as a really basic, incomplete, response to the issue, "use a private group" is broken.
Based on the live streams, I understand that these issues are things that FD is aware of and debates internally at length, but, equally, apart from some recent buffs to system security we haven't seen much come out of such debates as a concrete response. I've seen countless proposals from the user base, at varying different levels and attacking various different sides of the perceived issues and, to my knowledge, none has been officially recognised. Whether that means anything other than that a fuller response currently remains on the "too hard" pile, I can't say.
Either way, I guess we'll continue with threads like this for a while yet.
Ha, true. But there are different ways of dealing with it. Discussing tips&tricks is great. Telling people that it actually is okay to play Möbius/solo, and that that doesn't make you less of a Real Man as some claim, is also fine. Suggesting we essentially remove Open by neutering it with all kinds of 'safe mode' 'invisible flag' whatever is not. At the end of the day, there will always be griefers, no matter the ingame punishment. Why? Because they care less about their own progress than others do about theirs. So if we are to keep Open, well, Open we have to just 'deal with it's at some lvl. And I don't mean that in a macho sense, but in the 'learn the following things that increase your odds of survival'.
And with you-know-what coming this winter, that may not be a luxury anyway.
I believe this game has a mode for this already, two if you have friends.. or join mobius
The problem with that argument, even though it's a perfectly valid and practical one, is that it's not what the Modes system was supposed to be for. The Modes system was designed to control who you shared the game space with. The background simulation, in-game C&P rules and out-of-game sanctions for antisocial behaviour were supposed to influence the type of interactions that were commonplace between players.
Without the latter mechanics being in place, or at least not working to the extent outlined in the DDA, the modes system has become the only way to deal with those behaviours that rightfully should be discouraged or even prevented by other means.
Which is a shame, because the stuff in the DDA, while hugely ambitious, had every chance of working quite well had it been implemented. Sure, it would have had holes and exploits and would have required much in the way of tweaks and adjustments as the game matured, but it was a strong theoretical foundation. What we got instead was a complete free-for-all in Open Play, which quickly established ED as a sort of Day-Z-in-space, and now FD have a massive uphill battle to claw back any semblance of control without peeing off a bunch of players who love Day-Z-in-space and who are some of the game's biggest, or at least most vocal, advocates.
That's why a whole bunch of us will continue to campaign for FD to introduce the "proper" system for behaviour and sanctions as outlined in the DDA. Not because selecting a mode other than Open isn't an answer, but because it's a poor answer that does the whole game a disservice.
That will never, ever happen. Crime&punishment will deter pirates, role-players and so forth. It wont deter actual griefers, because they dont care about their ship as much as you care about yours. The only way for FD to deal with real griefers is to limit the interaction possible between users, which totally defeats the point of Open. You cant discuss this topic without seperating 'evil players' from 'griefers', and acknowledging these two groups respond very different to different gameplay mechanics...
Panticus
Banned
Looks like more intelligent members of the forum are participating here, no one yet said "it says Dangerous in the title"
Yes, but I think the ASA might be interested in this as misleading advertising. It should really be Elite:Tedious
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Ha, true. But there are different ways of dealing with it. Discussing tips&tricks is great. Telling people that it actually is okay to play Möbius/solo, and that that doesn't make you less of a Real Man as some claim, is also fine. Suggesting we essentially remove Open by neutering it with all kinds of 'safe mode' 'invisible flag' whatever is not. At the end of the day, there will always be griefers, no matter the ingame punishment. Why? Because they care less about their own progress than others do about theirs. So if we are to keep Open, well, Open we have to just 'deal with it's at some lvl. And I don't mean that in a macho sense, but in the 'learn the following things that increase your odds of survival'.
And with you-know-what coming this winter, that may not be a luxury anyway.
I suspect we are aligned on this topic. Yes of course there will always be Griefers, and a need for the players to be able to counter such action, while remaining in Open (if they choose to and feel they are up to the challenge).
The 'Winter is coming' example is separate from this, and has more in common with tailored psycho NPC interdictions, a topic I'm sure you are aware I have very firm opinions on & would be OT for this thread. I can avoid undesired player interaction (while remaining in open) with strategy, I would expect to be able to avoid 'winter' (if I chose to) by not carrying certain goods, or not visiting certain areas or regions. Clearly I won't be able to talk my way out of a 'winter' fight, as I potentially could with a player.
Yes every game I've played , its the Pvpers who are looked after first.. Exportation been a point , let alone the very poor miner or the T-9 trader ( are there any in OPEN )
Given 15k Plus in Mobius , I don't know if they can , so many threads with so many good suggestion , and still nothing ever done.
Looks like more intelligent members of the forum are participating here, no one yet said "it says Dangerous in the title"
Yes so true "Dangerous in the title" expect the Universe , nothing dangerous there ( maybe a neutron star now and then) just the myopic sycophantic fascination with danger when applied to blowing up the innocent in that it was, dangerous for them 30 sec ago , not the players who just murdered them.
...................
The Griefers / Murderers have broken Open , and until there are real everlasting consequences , they'll never stop , it's as Ive said it's the Killer Clown mentality , they don't want to play , they want to destroy your play, and will argue forever about their rights to murder you, without any consequence to them.
Consequences Commutations Commerce the bane of ED
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I disagree, for reasons I've outlined in many other threads but won't elaborate too much here for fear of derailing this one. Suffice to say:
- Limiting the types of interaction available should be part of the game, depending on where the limiting takes place. Don't conflate "Open" with "the whole galaxy". One is a null filter, the other is a massive series of locations.
- "Evil players" will understand this and move their evildoing to contextually appropriate locations.
- "Griefers" may choose to do the same, but the efficacy of their playstyle would suffer more because location is vital to the art.
- Everyone would care about their ships if they lost access to them for a while.
Do FD have the stones to take this control to its ultimate conclusion? Only they know. They talked the talk during the DDF, but have taken no more than a few tentative steps on the walk so far.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jack Schitt again."
Your crime & punishment suggestions are well thought out & balanced. The onus is not only on the Devs though, players can help themselves to a large extent by not presenting such an easy target.
Call me crazy, but I go to hang out in player hotspots such as CG's & engineer bases in the HOPES of seeing griefers (partly, anyhow; making a shot of cash is nice, too). The fact that there are sharks swimming in the same pool is intoxicating to me. I'm all for the discussion of enhanced C&P mechanics, but please, never consider neutering Open.
My advice is: if you can't handle the thought of someone dropping the hammer on you, don't play at the CG's/bases etc in Open--just do yourself a favor and go in PG or Solo. If you want to play in Open, especially in areas that draw crowds...gird yourself for battle at all times and mount your head on a swivel.
My advice is: if you can't handle the thought of someone dropping the hammer on you, don't play at the CG's/bases etc in Open--just do yourself a favor and go in PG or Solo. If you want to play in Open, especially in areas that draw crowds...gird yourself for battle at all times and mount your head on a swivel.