What do we learn from Lugh?

[Ian Skippy]

Speaking as the person who started the Lugh thread and writer of our storyline I say let the chips fall where they may. I want to win but that does not mean that I have the right to win. Lugh has taken on the Federation or should I more accurately say the Federation has taken on Lugh! The fact is it was never going to be a fair fight.

The most eye opening truth I have noticed about all of this are the number of players that instead of fighting on the side of 'players' and what players can actually achieve in this game they seem to prefer to stamp on our sand castle. To working your fingers to the bone on something get rewarded by players seeking a cheap thrill to dismantle it. They are freely within their right to do so but it has thought me a lesson about the nature of human beings as a whole. What is actually more interesting are the statistics that go with that. Very interesting indeed.

It is illogical to me that players offered a chance to make a real mark on the game, a real difference, something players have craved since Gamma would prefer to see to it that we fail. I personally see no reward in that but it is only my opinion.

The community will get what the community wants.

I have to say this gets me very conflicted. When I started ED I planned to join the Alliance, as the back story of both the Empire and the Federation doesnt appeal to me too much. But alas, the Alliance exists in name only. Purely by accident I ended up as allies to the feds while remaining neutral to alliance/empire. After some thought I gained some ranks in the Federation as a 'lesser of two evils'. Before all of this, I would have fought for Lugh. But I am now roleplaying a pilot in the federation navy. It is not an easy choice for me, but the Lugh storyline does not justify treason. Yet. Nevertheless, you are right in a way. I remember some time there was this for/against slavery pro/againts empire war. The vast majority of people chose for slavery/empire. I've learned that when given the choice most people would work with, or at least tacitly condone, the Empire in Star Wars. While I knew this to be true in real life (look at the collaborator/resistence ratio in world war 2) I never assumed this to hold in 'consequence-free' games.

Anyway, as a federation navy pilot I hope we get the order to retreat soon. But until then I have to fight you, unfortunately.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Who is talking about piracy? I mean mass shield boosters pythons, fdls combat logging in combat zones...

I can honestly say that no-one has logged on me in hundreds of engagements at Lugh

Everyone does a runner if it goes south but they have all stayed to the bitter end if they get mass locked and cant get out.

Guess ive been lucky.

 

[Bangfish]

I can honestly say that no-one has logged on me in hundreds of engagements at Lugh

Everyone does a runner if it goes south but they have all stayed to the bitter end if they get mass locked and cant get out.

Guess ive been lucky.

Yeah I guess so, because I have like 10 videos on my hdd full of combat loggers. I am uploading them to youtube because that's the only thing I can do for this broken game...

 

[Vasious]

The whole might of the Roman Empire came to a grinding halt when they got to what is now Scotland. They had to build and man two coast-to-coast walls in a vain attempt to keep us from selling them whisky and troubling their livestock

Its because you had nothing worth taking for the time and effort.

 

[smsKONG]

I don't know why people still think you lose rep for fighting in combat zones. Spend an hour in one and it's really obvious that you don't.

No you don't - you should but you don't...

I've killed about 590 federation ships so far and yet they're still friendly to me when I jump back into SC.

 

[This Forum Sucks]

With "people of your kind" I meant those insta-gratification-kids (yeah I said kids. I'm 58, am I so wrong?). But maybe you're right and it wouldn't actually kill the game but for sure it will kill E|D's reputation of a challenging game - if that's not already too late by now. With "people like you I meant all those youngsters who fall over any new hyped game like a swarm of locusts, sucking it out in no time and then move along to the next hype.

I'm so glad they announced console versions, it's the closest thing we'll get to dev confirmation that the game isn't intended to be a tedious slog just to please dullards like you. It's genuinely sad to see that you've reached the age you have without outgrowing your hateful "us vs them" superiority complex - it's a sobering warning for all of us young locusts, that's for sure.

 

[Zeeman]

True victory agaisnt major power are very rare in History, only times in small nation can generally beat a major power, is when they've had the backing of another major power.

Finland comes to mind. The Crimson state needs a couple of Simo Hayha's.

Indeed - so, the war is running as one would actually expect it to run. I'm quite invested in fighting for Lugh, even though I know I'll make nowhere near the cash, and no hope of winning (at this stage, anyway), but it's about the cause, and I have done bits and pieces for Lugh before, to the point of being Allied, so I feel I am obliged to help!

Well; just maybe FD/DB don't want players taking over systems. DB did say he doesn't want player created Empires...

I'm not altogether sure that he means what some may think he does.

A Lugh takeover is not really a player created Empire - it's still controlled by the background sim, it's take over of the system was merely helped and supported by CMDR's.

If he did mean that he did not want players influencing systems, and shaping the galaxy.. Well, I think we have some serious problems on our hands in terms of what this game is actually about.

Z...

 

[Zeeman]

I've learned that there is not enough risk in these scenarios.

Each station and outpost needs a heavy military presence around it for whichever side owns it. When you choose a side you should take an immediate rep hit for the side you didn't choose, and incrementally more as you kill their ships. You should go hostile with whichever side you aren't on very quickly, and it should stop you from being able to go anywhere near anything they control.

There are lots of great suggestions for changing mechanics in this thread, but the items here could be implemented relatively easily and would make the path you choose meaningful. I think that this would add a lot more weight to the game.

I agree with you - though, at the same time, I think this should only last the length of the war. at which point, if you are ont he losing side, you get popped into "unfriendly".

Generally speaking, a soldier for one side won't be shot on site after the war is over should they go to the country they were fighting against. They will be distrusted, yes, and have to earn their place, but they wouldn't be treated as outright hostile.

During the war, however... Once you pick a side, that should be it - you stay on that side for the whole period of the conflict. Like insurance, boosting into station walls, and other such mistakes, everyone will learn to make the right choice for them the first time very quickly.

I took a little detour to try my luck at Lugh. What I learned the hard way is that friendly fire is really hard (for me, that is) to avoid when there's one massive wall of a ship and added to that crazy npc:s flying inbetween me and the target (even tough it's just couple of 100 meters gap). Maybe friendly fire should be less punishable during large combat events? Or, maybe, my skills are pretty flawed as I managed to be killed that way 3 times. Otherwise, I had lots of fun, until I had to call it for today due to my economical losses.

I learned the value of fixed weapons in conflict zones. No stray fire from beams waving around in the wind...
Z...

 

[HeavyGroovez]

During the war, however... Once you pick a side, that should be it - you stay on that side for the whole period of the conflict. Like insurance, boosting into station walls, and other such mistakes, everyone will learn to make the right choice for them the first time very quickly.

Z...

Thats actually an interesting dynamic. At least then we wouldnt have to sent THE MEMO to every damn yellow rectangle in the combat zone.

 

[Rall]

That surprises me. Ive lost count of my commander kills and not a single person has logged on me since the conflict started.


The Lugh conflict + Wings is the best thing to happen in Elite, long may it continue in all its glory !!!!

Me neither, I've seen plenty people disengage from combat (Run), but no actual loggers. And I’ve been blown to bits a few times doing the same. If there are combat loggers, they’re rare like Unicorns.

 

[Shock]

The most eye opening truth I have noticed about all of this are the number of players that instead of fighting on the side of 'players' and what players can actually achieve in this game they seem to prefer to stamp on our sand castle. To working your fingers to the bone on something get rewarded by players seeking a cheap thrill to dismantle it. .

Not all players that are against you are doing it to stamp on "your" sand castle. I've actually been fighting against you (for the Feds) in Lugh a couple of weeks before the war started (a few of you guys noticed the % going down for Crimson and up for the Feds and were perplexed as to why). The reason I came to Lugh to help the Feds in the first place was I saw some news on Galnet that troubled me, we (the Feds) were going to lose Lugh (I don't want to see the Feds lose any systems), so I raced over here to grind Fed missions.

 

[obliterator]

Except for the obvious fact that other CMDRs are the greatest threat possible and should be driven off or destroyed posthaste, less they do the same to you while you are otherwise occupied.

I think he meant that there is no incentives for people to play in open if they want to make profits. Open is more fun, but you wont make any money by fighting commanders because they either jump out and take 10 times longer to kill than npcs. Less credits and added risk = less participation from the players.

During the war, however... Once you pick a side, that should be it - you stay on that side for the whole period of the conflict.

I completely agree. Part of the problem for pvp (beside the fact that killing players are absolutely not worth it credit wise) is that some players tend to choose the side that has the most players in it everytime they get into an instance. This then creates a slippery slope where the fight is more an more one-sided, until it's completely impossible to see a single commander from the opposite faction.

 

[Bangfish]

I completely agree. Part of the problem for pvp (beside the fact that killing players are absolutely not worth it credit wise) is that some players tend to choose the side that has the most players in it everytime they get into an instance. This then creates a slippery slope where the fight is more an more one-sided, until it's completely impossible to see a single commander from the opposite faction.

Sure man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KVkSkYxC2U

 

[obliterator]

Sure man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KVkSkYxC2U

I'm not sure if you get what the term "slippery slope" means.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

Speaking as the person who started the Lugh thread and writer of our storyline I say let the chips fall where they may. I want to win but that does not mean that I have the right to win. Lugh has taken on the Federation or should I more accurately say the Federation has taken on Lugh! The fact is it was never going to be a fair fight.

The most eye opening truth I have noticed about all of this are the number of players that instead of fighting on the side of 'players' and what players can actually achieve in this game they seem to prefer to stamp on our sand castle. To working your fingers to the bone on something get rewarded by players seeking a cheap thrill to dismantle it. They are freely within their right to do so but it has thought me a lesson about the nature of human beings as a whole. What is actually more interesting are the statistics that go with that. Very interesting indeed.

It is illogical to me that players offered a chance to make a real mark on the game, a real difference, something players have craved since Gamma would prefer to see to it that we fail. I personally see no reward in that but it is only my opinion.

The community will get what the community wants.

From what I've seen most people just see the sites as another farming zone, they have PvE fits with gimballed weapons and all choose the same side purely because it's easier to farm that way. There is zero incentive to select CSG for the majority of players, especially if they're unaware of (or don't care about) the actual storyline impact.

I still like the idea of giving the enemy insurance payout amounts as combat bonds in conflict zones, so at least you make more money picking the side that isn't currently dominating the field. Well, as long as you don't get blown up.

I can honestly say that no-one has logged on me in hundreds of engagements at Lugh

Everyone does a runner if it goes south but they have all stayed to the bitter end if they get mass locked and cant get out.

Guess ive been lucky.

I've seen two do it, but that's out of a fair few. In my experience though quite a few people run, even when they have an enormous advantage.

Me and a friend jumped into a high intensity zone earlier and went red, half the enemy started bugging out immediately and ironically the only ships with the balls to fight were the ones that couldn't (e.g. cobras/vipers). There must have been 6+ of them and we were on our own, if they'd all turned on us they'd have wiped us out with minimal losses ><

 

[Rall]

I've seen two do it, but that's out of a fair few. In my experience though quite a few people run, even when they have an enormous advantage.

Me and a friend jumped into a high intensity zone earlier and went red, half the enemy started bugging out immediately and ironically the only ships with the balls to fight were the ones that couldn't (e.g. cobras/vipers). There must have been 6+ of them and we were on our own, if they'd all turned on us they'd have wiped us out with minimal losses ><

I've seen the exact same thing, I've only had Eagles have stay to fight me in my FDL. Vultures and other FDL just withdraw or leave all together, unless I'm massivly out numbered then they desend in bloodlust. Which does indeed imply the majority of Fed players are just there to farm NPCs.

On the Crimison state side, I've seen the exact opposite. People are putting big expensive ships in the line of fire, even Anaconda are wading into the fray. Those are big rebuys being put on the line, it goes to show that having cause is a really good incentive to get involved.

Elite Dangerous needs more causes to champion.

 

[Crash1099]

It is not fun when you are ganged by two commanders and no one to help you. Glad i am far away from the busy systems. Found a nice Federation system i can call home.

 

[Shock]

It is not fun when you are ganged by two commanders and no one to help you. Glad i am far away from the busy systems. Found a nice Federation system i can call home.

Two on one.... I wish..... Every time I see 4 or more on one. Last night I was ganged up on by 8 on one (and the only time someone has managed to blow me up in this war). Typical gang mentality, too weak for a one on one

 

[Greyhead]

I traveled all the way from HE BO to Lugh for the war (in my viper, had to self destruct once because I forgot to equip a fuel scoop). Yesterday I lost my ship (viper) 5 times before I decided to upgrade to vulture. Formed wings, had fun. The battle was in general amazing although I think it tests the limits of my PC and network connection (I see commanders jumping back and forth all over the place).

Just one thing though, I would suggest choosing the side before warping in. I see lots of commanders waiting with no allegiance for a long time before choosing sides and this leads to the situations mentioned before, where everyone is Federal Neat or Crimson Scum and are running like flies to the first enemy unit that will appear. You don't really go to the war field and choose sides afterwards, do you? I think this way commanders would be able to join the war if they really believed in the righteous freedom of the Federation.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

I traveled all the way from HE BO to Lugh for the war (in my viper, had to self destruct once because I forgot to equip a fuel scoop). Yesterday I lost my ship (viper) 5 times before I decided to upgrade to vulture. Formed wings, had fun. The battle was in general amazing although I think it tests the limits of my PC and network connection (I see commanders jumping back and forth all over the place).

Just one thing though, I would suggest choosing the side before warping in. I see lots of commanders waiting with no allegiance for a long time before choosing sides and this leads to the situations mentioned before, where everyone is Federal Neat or Crimson Scum and are running like flies to the first enemy unit that will appear. You don't really go to the war field and choose sides afterwards, do you? I think this way commanders would be able to join the war if they really believed in the righteous freedom of the Federation.

The problem with that is that 90% of the time the sites are filled with feds farming. It would make it impossible to go to conflict zones solo as CSG without running the risk of landing in the middle of 6-8 enemy players.

Don't get me wrong, I'll happily engage 6-8 players, but not until I'm in a good position and have had a chance to find my bearings and see what's on the field.

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I've seen the exact same thing, I've only had Eagles have stay to fight me in my FDL. Vultures and other FDL just withdraw or leave all together, unless I'm massivly out numbered then they desend in bloodlust. Which does indeed imply the majority of Fed players are just there to farm NPCs.

On the Crimison state side, I've seen the exact opposite. People are putting big expensive ships in the line of fire, even Anaconda are wading into the fray. Those are big rebuys being put on the line, it goes to show that having cause is a really good incentive to get involved.

Elite Dangerous needs more causes to champion.

Yeah, in my experience feds are there to farm. CSG players are generally looking for fights, personally I tend to clear a site of other players and then farm.

The bit that annoys me though is that despite CSG undoubtedly having killed far more fed CMDRs, feds will win on community goals as they're the side people pick for their PvE grinding and when I kill a fed I'm awarded no more for that than if I had killed some pesky little NPC.