What even is "Grinding".

[Stealthie]

I'll admit I didn't watch the whole video, is that someone sitting outside a station scanning wakes? There is another option, like playing the game as a bounty hunter, trader, courier etc, just scanning wakes as you go along. As I previously said, what is the rush, and obsession with finding the most boring way to do something, then sitting there for ages repeating it?

The rush is often that you can't even fly a ship until you've applied various heat/power saving mod's.
In that case, it's likely people are going to adopt the most efficient way to obtain the stuff they need even if it's boring.

 

[Morbad]

No. What is ridiculous that you are actually publicly complaining about needing to make two jumps to trade some materials around.

You seem to be hung up on the degree of inconvenience, which is entirely beside the point.

It's a journey that shouldn't need to be made at all. I should just be able to toss excess materials.

Sure, two jumps isn't hard. My CMDR jumps hundreds of times a day and I've had him go on a ~5600 jump voyage to Sag A* and back in my combat FDL--before Engineering, boosts, or synthesis--without complaints about how long it took or how much jumping needed to be done. However, travel is intrinsic to going places...it should not be intrinsic to discarding materials. He can discard or jettison cargo. He used to be able to discard materials. What sense is there is this now being impossible?

So no, I'm not 'complaining about needing to make two jumps to trade some materials around', never was.

I'm complaining about being unable to get rid of materials without visiting a material trader, or using them for Engineering or synthesis.

 

[NeilF]

I'll admit I didn't watch the whole video, is that someone sitting outside a station scanning wakes? There is another option, like playing the game as a bounty hunter, trader, courier etc, just scanning wakes as you go along. As I previously said, what is the rush, and obsession with finding the most boring way to do something, then sitting there for ages repeating it?

Yes, it was me doing it when Engineers was first released, after a particular material for a particular upgrade.

It's obviously a daft example, but does highlight aspects of the game. ie: Undoubtably with Engineering, if you need a particular material for an upgrade, you might well be forced to "grind" a mechanics until the dice give you what you're after.

And if you then say "Material Traders," I'll then ask, why are these needlessly tucked away just to make you do extra flights? For what purpose or goal or challenge?

Engineering is a tour de force of shallow grindy shallow busy work gameplay design IMHO, even with Engineers 2.0 trying to round off some of the grindy edges.

 

[Brrokk]

None of that stuff, which I suspect everybody is already aware of, addresses Raw mat's.

The only way to get them is to farm planet surfaces... which is a repetitive and unchallenging activity required in order to be successful at something - ergo, grind.

Yes it did:
Drop in on biological or geological surface sites and collect phloem or crystal clusters, which always yield the planet's grade 5 materials.

 

[Morbad]

There is another option, like playing the game as a bounty hunter, trader, courier etc, just scanning wakes as you go along.

Well, this option both takes longer to get the data you'd be scanning wakes for, and mandates one carry around a nearly useless tool in one of their precious utility slots.

It's not a particularly good system, even if one can avoid making it tedious (I just use data traders or get data from surface scans in the course of missions).

Yes it did:
Drop in on biological or geological surface sites and collect phloem or crystal clusters, which always yield the planet's grade 5 materials.

Usually takes longer than just driving around using the wave scanner, especially if one isn't inclined to re-instance habitually.

 

[Brrokk]

...
Usually takes longer than just driving around using the wave scanner, especially if one isn't inclined to re-instance habitually.

How??? I'm not that quick with a wave scanner. I can visit a geo or bio site and find 4 to 6 crystal clusters or phloems in a few minutes, (so 12 to 18 G5 mats). Then there are probably a dozen more sites on the same planet. G3 and G4 mats are also there if you want them.

And if you'd tried this you'd know that re-instancing has no effect: they take a few days to respawn. So the thing to do is have some favourite planets off the beaten path to harvest now and then.

 

[777Driver]

Well, this option both takes longer to get the data you'd be scanning wakes for, and mandates one carry around a nearly useless tool in one of their precious utility slots.

Yes it does take longer, as I keep saying, what is the rush? My cargo ships carry wake scanners, no big deal, I am in and out of stations all the time. My bounty hunting and assassination ships carry wake scanners. Absolutely no need for me to sit outside a station scanning wakes all day.. The majority of professions involve visiting stations.

Sitting scanning wakes is definitely part of my definition of grinding for something that is not essential. Just play the game, unless you must have everything now.

 

[Stealthie]

Yes it did:
Drop in on biological or geological surface sites and collect phloem or crystal clusters, which always yield the planet's grade 5 materials.

You read the 2nd sentence I wrote, right?

 

[GonzTheMalificent]

I'm totally immersed in ED when I play (Hail the Emperor!) but if something starts to bore me I go do something else, in-game or even IRL - its a game, meant to be fun!!

 

[Morbad]

How??? I'm not that quick with a wake scanner. I can visit a geo or bio site and find 4 to 6 crystal clusters or phloems in a few minutes, (so 12 to 18 G5 mats). Then there are probably a dozen more sites on the same planet. G3 and G4 mats are also there if you want them.

And if you'd tried this you'd know that re-instancing has no effect: they take a few days to respawn. So the thing to do is have some favourite planets off the beaten path to harvest now and then.

I can get upwards of sixty G5 materials an hour with an SRV a wake scanner and any suitable planet (right type, materials, and good reserves), without having to stray too far from the beaten path. No need to surface scan them or take off repeatedly to find another geo/biosite either.

Yes it does take longer, as I keep saying, what is the rush? My cargo ships carry wake scanners, no big deal, I am in and out of stations all the time. My bounty hunting and assassination ships carry wake scanners. Absolutely no need for me to sit outside a station scanning wakes all day.. The majority of professions involve visiting stations.

Sitting scanning wakes is definitely part of my definition of grinding for something that is not essential. Just play the game, unless you must have everything now.

None of my CMDRs ships carry wake scanners because they are useless dead weight and waste of a utility slot. Indeed, the few times I've used them felt highly out of character.

 

[Stealthie]

I'm totally immersed in ED when I play (Hail the Emperor!) but if something starts to bore me I go do something else, in-game or even IRL - its a game, meant to be fun!!

It must be nice to be able to do that.

Much like real-life, where if I've got to fill in a tax return, write a boring document or paint my windows, going to do something else doesn't get the job done, in ED if you're trying to accomplish something then going to do something else might relieve the tedium but it doesn't allow you to accomplish your goals.

 

[Brrokk]

I can get upwards of sixty G5 materials an hour with an SRV a wake scanner and any suitable planet (right type, materials, and good reserves), without having to stray too far from the beaten path. No need to surface scan them or take off repeatedly to find another geo/biosite either.



None of my CMDRs ships carry wake scanners because they are useless dead weight and waste of a utility slot. Indeed, the few times I've used them felt highly out of character.

OK, I meant wave scanner - edited my post.

But your collection of G5 materials sounds quite efficient; not too much of a "grind".

 

[Morbad]

But your collection of G5 materials sounds quite efficient; not too much of a "grind".

Including betas I've got almost thrity thousand km on the SRV...I'd be driving it anyway.

 

[777Driver]

None of my CMDRs ships carry wake scanners because they are useless dead weight and waste of a utility slot. Indeed, the few times I've used them felt highly out of character.

1.3 tonnes, single utility.. Yeah, I think my freighters and bounty hunter ships can manage that. Anyway, my point is if you are a cmdr that feels they have to sit outside a station scanning wakes whilst being bored to death... There are other options, like playing the game.

 

[Morbad]

1.3 tonnes, single utility.. Yeah, I think my freighters and bounty hunter ships can manage that.

There are three PDTs, two ECMs, two heatsinks, and a chaff launcher on my freighter, all of which I regularly use. Not inclined to replace any of those with a wake scanner.

Likewise, since there aren't any NPCs that will survive long enough to high wake, even from that freighter...the wake scanner seems pretty redundant while bounty hunting.

There are other options, like playing the game.

Indeed. Anything you can get from a wake scan you can get from a surface base/POI, encoded emission, or data trader.

That doesn't make the wake scanning mechanism any good, or the wake scanner worth it's weight in biowaste.

 

[777Driver]

There are three PDTs, two ECMs, two heatsinks, and a chaff launcher on my freighter, all of which I regularly use. Not inclined to replace any of those with a wake scanner.

Likewise, since there aren't any NPCs that will survive long enough to high wake, even from that freighter...the wake scanner seems pretty redundant while bounty hunting.

Indeed. Anything you can get from a wake scan you can get from a surface base/POI, encoded emission, or data trader.

That doesn't make the wake scanning mechanism any good, or the wake scanner worth it's weight in biowaste.

Thats a lot of stuff on your freighter, PvE cargo hauling must be tough in your galaxy ;-) I just stick a few heatsinks on, breaks any target lock and you are on your way again.

I use the wake scanner to track Cmdrs, not NPC's, although I used to follow NPC's to Anarchy space using a wake scanner, interdict them without the cops showing up.

Personally, I find wake scanning to be very good, not sure while you would disagree? The primary purpose is to 'cough*' scan wakes and track a targets jump destination. The bonus is obtaining data.

 

[Old Duck]

Hey, somebody give me the system that has the crashed ship that gives free G4 raw mats, please

 

[Stealthie]

Hey, somebody give me the system that has the crashed ship that gives free G4 raw mats, please

HIP 16613

 

[Morbad]

Thats a lot of stuff on your freighter, PvE cargo hauling must be tough in your galaxy ;-)

The PvP hauling can be even tougher.

Personally, I find wake scanning to be very good, not sure while you would disagree?

Because it's not needed for NPCs (they lose drives or explode before they get away) and doesn't work against CMDRs that know what they are doing. Oh I'm sure the occasional lazy, reckless, or incompetent CMDR fails to drop out of SC or make that second jump soon enough, but most of the one's I'd be inclined to chase wouldn't.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

....

Sure there are the occasional tedious bullet sponge NPCs, but the end result isn't much different from past incarnations of the game where there were occasionally tedious NPC wings of arbitrarily large sizes, or things like that.

Hahaha. "Occasionally". Every single time I hopped into some signal wossname it was Anaconda spam. With escorts. At a point I stopped going there - there was no point.