Ships What is the difference between thermal load and distributor draw?

So where does it get the power to recharge from? A 7A G5 charge enhanced PD with super conduits has 55.6MW Wep capacity with a 9.2MW recharge rate yet draws only 0.89MW of power for all 3 capacitors.

Not quite.
That distro has a weapons capacity of 55.6 MJ (not MW - you need to get your units right, or you'll never undertand it).
This capacitor can be recharged with (ok, here I am fuzzy - I got no idea how pips and power plant change this) with up to(? see to the left) 9.2 MW.
The distributor itself draws 0.89 MW from the power plant for its own operation, that is on top of (and independent on) all that recharge power for Sys. Eng and Wep capacitors.

That overcharged oversized 4A beam laser on the H mount draws 11.1 MW from the Wep capacitor while firing and requires 2.74 MW standby power (directly from the power plant) while deployed. Let me just assume (I hope someone who knows better will correct me there) that the 9.2 MW recharge are the top rate with 4 pips to Wep.
Then, with 0 pips to Wep and a fully charged capacitor, you can fire your beam for 55.6 MJ/11.1 MW = 5.009 seconds before the capacitor is empty.
With 4 pips to Wep (i.e. 9.2 MW charge rate), you'll get 55.6 MJ/(11.1 - 9.2)MW = 29.26 seconds of beam power before the cap is drained.
Switch that beam to efficient/thermal vent (4.5 MW), and you can shoot two of them forever with what the distro will deliver without making a dent into the capacitor.
 
By the way .
4 pieces in the SYS not only charge faster, but also add resistance.
4 pieces in ENG not only charge faster but also add maneuverability.
 
Not quite.
That distro has a weapons capacity of 55.6 MJ (not MW - you need to get your units right, or you'll never undertand it).
This capacitor can be recharged with (ok, here I am fuzzy - I got no idea how pips and power plant change this) with up to(? see to the left) 9.2 MW.
The distributor itself draws 0.89 MW from the power plant for its own operation, that is on top of (and independent on) all that recharge power for Sys. Eng and Wep capacitors.

That overcharged oversized 4A beam laser on the H mount draws 11.1 MW from the Wep capacitor while firing and requires 2.74 MW standby power (directly from the power plant) while deployed. Let me just assume (I hope someone who knows better will correct me there) that the 9.2 MW recharge are the top rate with 4 pips to Wep.
Then, with 0 pips to Wep and a fully charged capacitor, you can fire your beam for 55.6 MJ/11.1 MW = 5.009 seconds before the capacitor is empty.
With 4 pips to Wep (i.e. 9.2 MW charge rate), you'll get 55.6 MJ/(11.1 - 9.2)MW = 29.26 seconds of beam power before the cap is drained.
Switch that beam to efficient/thermal vent (4.5 MW), and you can shoot two of them forever with what the distro will deliver without making a dent into the capacitor.
So where does it get the power to recharge from? A 7A G5 charge enhanced PD with super conduits has 55.6MW Wep capacity with a 9.2MW recharge rate yet draws only 0.89MW of power for all 3 capacitors. Logically there should be a base recharge rate according to the spare power capacity available from the PP modified by where you put your pips, but the way it is implemented in ED your ability to recharge is independent of power plant output. You could have barely enough power for everything or several MW spare output and it makes no difference. Also logically it would make more sense to store the energy locally so each weapon, the thrusters, shield etc have a capacitor built in which is recharged when not drawing full power. A central energy bank, which to follow your logic is what the PD is would be vulnerable, a single hit wipes out all your energy storage capacity for everything.

Ashnak has the jist of it...

The PD uses a different units. MJ is energy, MW is work (iirc 1 W is 1J of work done for 1 sec). There is a while other level of calculations if you want to work out the difference between the recharge rates in MJ/s and the Power output of the PP in MW/s.

Ultimately you are probably over thinking it. The numbers may be slightly out if you want to actually do the math but TBH it's probably not worth the effort.

Simply suffice to say the PD is a series of capacitors that recharge based on how much priority to set to them via pip management.
 
Not quite.
That distro has a weapons capacity of 55.6 MJ (not MW - you need to get your units right, or you'll never undertand it).
This capacitor can be recharged with (ok, here I am fuzzy - I got no idea how pips and power plant change this) with up to(? see to the left) 9.2 MW.
The distributor itself draws 0.89 MW from the power plant for its own operation, that is on top of (and independent on) all that recharge power for Sys. Eng and Wep capacitors.

That overcharged oversized 4A beam laser on the H mount draws 11.1 MW from the Wep capacitor while firing and requires 2.74 MW standby power (directly from the power plant) while deployed. Let me just assume (I hope someone who knows better will correct me there) that the 9.2 MW recharge are the top rate with 4 pips to Wep.
Then, with 0 pips to Wep and a fully charged capacitor, you can fire your beam for 55.6 MJ/11.1 MW = 5.009 seconds before the capacitor is empty.
With 4 pips to Wep (i.e. 9.2 MW charge rate), you'll get 55.6 MJ/(11.1 - 9.2)MW = 29.26 seconds of beam power before the cap is drained.
Switch that beam to efficient/thermal vent (4.5 MW), and you can shoot two of them forever with what the distro will deliver without making a dent into the capacitor.
You still haven’t explained where the power comes from to recharge the PD capacitors. You are assuming the base power requirement of the laser, thrusters etc is the draw from the PP when not firing, boosting etc. Perfectly reasonable assumption as deploying weapons without a PP that generates enough power gives you an immediate “Power plant capacity exceeded” message and things shut down.
 
Ashnak has the jist of it...

The PD uses a different units. MJ is energy, MW is work (iirc 1 W is 1J of work done for 1 sec). There is a while other level of calculations if you want to work out the difference between the recharge rates in MJ/s and the Power output of the PP in MW/s.

Ultimately you are probably over thinking it. The numbers may be slightly out if you want to actually do the math but TBH it's probably not worth the effort.

Simply suffice to say the PD is a series of capacitors that recharge based on how much priority to set to them via pip management.
No you have it wrong, the recharge rate is in MW, not MJ. On my SRB rail FDL I have exactly 0.22MW of spare power with weapons deployed, yet putting 4 pips to Wep can recharge the capacitor at 7.8MW.
 
You still haven’t explained where the power comes from to recharge the PD capacitors. You are assuming the base power requirement of the laser, thrusters etc is the draw from the PP when not firing, boosting etc. Perfectly reasonable assumption as deploying weapons without a PP that generates enough power gives you an immediate “Power plant capacity exceeded” message and things shut down.

The power comes from the Power plant like everything else...

The power usage increases when weps get deployed as you are powering them up for use.

The Capacitor in the distro is a 'burst' charge allowing for firing etc of the weapons themselves. The power usages if the simple act of powering them up for deployment, linking to targets systems and whatnot.
 
No you have it wrong, the recharge rate is in MW, not MJ. On my SRB rail FDL I have exactly 0.22MW of spare power with weapons deployed, yet putting 4 pips to Wep can recharge the capacitor at 7.8MW.

Yup recharge in MW but capacity is in MJ. and does not translate to a direct number cross there is a transitional calculation.
 
Yup recharge in MW but capacity is in MJ. and does not translate to a direct number cross there is a transitional calculation.
Well a Watt is 1 Joule per second, so a Megawatt is presumably 1 Megajoule per second. So 1MW should be able to recharge something at 1MJ per second.
 
I don't want to cause any confusion but it has not been mentioned so far. Pips to WEP means power to the cooling system of the weapons, the other two are power to the equipment but this WEP pips meaning power to cool the weapons is why you get the thermal overload condition message when the pips run out. (Hence more pips to WEP allows for more cooling of them and so more time firing.) It is confusing because that distributor drain is totally different from the thermal load which, as has been stated, is the effect on your ship's temperature from using the weapon.

BTW - In case it is not clear - your weapons actual power is supplied direct so energy for lasers or firing a kinetic weapon is independent of the PD, all that is required is that they be powered in the modules priority page, they will fire in that case as long as they are not in thermal overload.

tl/dr: PD's pips to WEP just cools the weapon.
Thanks. I was sure I hadn’t dreamed a cooling effect. So in practical terms a weapon mod like short range which increases thermal load, but not distributor draw, what happens when you fire it? I assume the ship heats up, but the distributor runs down at the same rate as an unengineered weapon. So if I can keep the ship cool with thermal vent, heat sinks or thermal efficient build it will still fire as long as the Wep distributor has some charge?
 
Thanks. I was sure I hadn’t dreamed a cooling effect. So in practical terms a weapon mod like short range which increases thermal load, but not distributor draw, what happens when you fire it? I assume the ship heats up, but the distributor runs down at the same rate as an unengineered weapon. So if I can keep the ship cool with thermal vent, heat sinks or thermal efficient build it will still fire as long as the Wep distributor has some charge?
A number of years ago fdev did a revamp of heat mechanics. I won't go into what it used to be but part of the change made it so heat from weapon discharge (thermal load) increases dramatically if wep is empty. Otherwise, the "thermal load" is a fixed value applied to your ship every time it is used (or per second for beams I suppose).

The wep pool (capacity) of the pd is depleted with each shot that consumes energy (energy weapons draw from the distributor but kinetics consume ammo - though I think kinetics do draw a much reduced value but not certain about this without checking) and has a recharge rate that is reduced if you divert pips elsewhere (so fewer than 4 to wep). The capacity is initially set by the size and quality of the pd (then changed by engineering). There's zero relation between the size or quality of the power plant and the values of power used/imparted by the pd (and the pp only controls two functions, limiting the total capacity for value of power from fitted/deployed modules and the heat efficiency of your ship). There's no logical process that literally "takes" power from the power plant into the pd to both charge capacity and equally generate a realistic and proportionate value of heat when that power is used.

All active modules add heat in idle. Some add more when in use (ie charging fsd, thrusters when boosting Scbs when fired. Weapons add more when fired). I'm not actually certain if there's a visible stat that tells us idle and "actioned" thermal load. Someone might be able to confirm this for me.

External heat sources simply add to your ships base heat (fuel scooping, thermal shock). Your pp efficiency reduces the impact of base heat (idle) and I'm guessing higher efficiency will reduce heat faster back to idle state but that's just a guess.

So, firing a weapon will take power from the current wep capacity. It's a fixed value. It'll add a certain value of heat to your ship, again fixed value. Only when your wep cap is empty does your weapon generate additional heat.

There is no particular real science behind this. The wep capacitor isn't "cooling weapon systems" and pips have no direct impact over heat - although the handwavium could be that it requires some wep power capacity to keep the basic cooling running. Either way, it's purely a game play mechanic designed to balance weapons and give you an interesting strategic choice in combat (a skill based function) with a consequence to allow the player to "overburn" at the expense of massive heat. It literally holds power for your weapons to use up and the rate it refills its capacity is dependent on the size, quality, engineering and pips applied. It isn't dependent on some cleverly calculated, real world physics that conduits actual power from your power plant and imparts it as power consumed and equal parts heat generated.

Systems pips can't work the same way because shields just don't work that way (we don't "fire" shields). It's just a pool of power that's depleted when shields recharge. As mentioned above, it has an additional benefit of adding hard coded resistance to damage ("power to shields"). It also has, I believe, a bonus to sensor strength (longer range sensors at 4 pips). There's a bit of strategy here when building a ship; if your sys cap total is too low, having fast charge bi weaves might recharge slower... Because this process eats up your sys capacity faster than it recharges even with 4 pips. In this case, low draw shields are better. Again, this just goes to demonstrate how the relationship isn't necessarily a lesson in the physics of electronics... It's just stats management.

Eng is pretty obvious, as outlined above. Purely a game play pool that draws power when boosting, otherwise has a hard coded multiplier to thruster power.

These "additional effects" (enhanced engine and shield performance because you use more pips or the penalty for exhausting wep capacity) really don't relate to anything. There's no answer to "where is the power from"? There's no relation between the PD, the power plant and the performance of your modules. It's all just pip management bonuses, pure and simple, and used to give reasons for us to adjust strategy mid fight.

When building a ship (and then engineering the PD), it's just a way to give the player more strategy choices. Balancing the capacity for shield regeneration (sys), speed (Eng) and how long you can consecutively maintain maximum dps output before needing to rest or risk heat damage (wep).

The pips just add a real time (skill based) element to that function with a couple bonuses to give us reasons for choosing something other than 4 pips to weapons.
 
Last edited:
......
The wep pool (capacity) of the pd is depleted with each shot that consumes energy (energy weapons draw from the distributor .............

I should point out again that the power supplied by the PD to the weapons is for cooling, not for energising weapons.

This has been known for many years, see:


.. plus it is pointed out (in lousy English) on page 64 of the manual:

PD manual.jpg

... clearer language in the original "Quick Start Guide"

PD manual old.jpg
 
Last edited:
I should point out again that the power supplied by the PD to the weapons is for cooling, not for energising weapons.

Still, efficient beams with thermalvent - no heat to your ship even with capacitor drained - but they will still not fire...
They should be firing at full power given the fact that my ship is all frozen and at 0% heat
 
Still, efficient beams with thermalvent - no heat to your ship even with capacitor drained - but they will still not fire...
They should be firing at full power given the fact that my ship is all frozen and at 0% heat

...they will not fire if they are in thermal overload.

I could not begin to estimate how many times I have gone laser mining, blasted off the two 2D lasers only for them to suddenly stop because I had not put pips to WEP so they went to thermal overload and had no pips giving power to their cooling equipment. - Same thing - nowt to do with how chilly my ship might be, they just have no cooling applied to them so went into thermal overload.
 
they will not fire if they are in thermal overload.

Which means their thermals are not related to ship thermals or at least it's related one-way

I mean, if they get hot (dry capacitor) the ship gets hot, right?
But if thermal vent keeps my ship dead cold (0% heat, frozen canopy) - the weapons are still in thermal overload because of dry capacitor... well, it does not add up

Edit: that's what thermal vent is supposed to do - increase heat dissipation. But weirdly enough it increases only ship dissipation.
Lasers get hot (dry cap) but their heat does not radiate in the ship, and my dead cold ship is not able to cool the lasers - so they dont fire... weird..
that's why i'm saying things do not add up when thermal vent is factored in.
 
Last edited:
Which means their thermals are not related to ship thermals or at least it's related one-way

I mean, if they get hot (dry capacitor) the ship gets hot, right?
But if thermal vent keeps my ship dead cold (0% heat, frozen canopy) - the weapons are still in thermal overload because of dry capacitor... well, it does not add up

I am of the opinion that they just cobbled together "effects" and did not tie them in to the actual mechanics. In fact the people that came up with the "Harry Potter spells" for the effects probably have no idea what the mechanics were supposed to be. ;)

How do you explain the magic shield healing etc? Don't look for sense in the nonsense these guys dream up. (I have always wondered how my multicannon shells can tell if someone is a friend and just how does a lump of metal with high kinetic energy suddenly evaporate? - Complete drivel.)
 
Last edited:
I should point out again that the power supplied by the PD to the weapons is for cooling, not for energising weapons.

This has been known for many years, see:


.. plus it is explicitly pointed out on page 64 of the manual:

View attachment 188854
I know but practically speaking it has no impact on heat except when the capacity is fully depleted and, practically speaking, distributor draw reduces capacity by a fixed value and thermal load increases ship heat by a fixed value on use.

The idea it's a way of cooling the weapons is handwavium used to explain the purely game play functions of the PD, not an explanation of the difference between thermal load or distributor draw.

If we just said "it cools weapons" then what is being drawn from the distributor and why isn't an increased thermal load correlated with an increased distributor draw? Equally, why isn't our cooling enhanced with 4 pips?

Firing a weapon depletes a stat and increases heat. If that stat is zero then the heat is increased by a multiplied value. In some cases, weapons stop firing. By all means, we can pretend that this is some metered weapons cooling system and that's what it's explained as but that has equally no correlation to reality, the power plant, the amount of power used, thermal load or anything else.

I don't think anything you said before was wrong. I agree with it but it's really easy to see how F4fred is confused when the handwavium is used to explain something like thermal load and distro draw in real, game play terms.

Fdev made big changes to the heat mechanic and along with that they applied this existing model to how heat, weapons, the PD and pips correlate. The simplest way to explain the new way was how it's shown now in the manual. But, ultimately, every shot saps a value and adds heat, where both of those values are changeable without being tied to any other mechanic of "cooling".

So, you're right. Just, I'm trying to explain it practically, rather than by lore.
 
Rereading my post, I realise it sounded a little disparaging. That wasn't my intention. But I stand by what I wrote - the PD only exists for Video Game reasons. Pip management is a skill that any pilot serious about combat must master. And that's perfectly fine.

All the in-universe lore stuff is fun to discuss too. Like why pips exist at all. There's no reason I can think of that all capacitors couldn't be running the equivalent of four pips at all times. Especially considering that multi-crew actually adds pips (Video Game, again).
 
Well a Watt is 1 Joule per second, so a Megawatt is presumably 1 Megajoule per second. So 1MW should be able to recharge something at 1MJ per second.

1 joule of energy of WORK. It's the act of using the energy to DO something...

But in the context of this game you are way over thinking this and just getting yourself confused.

The numbers could be chickens and harleys for all it matters, the mechanics of the game engine are well understood and are not a direct representation of real world mechanics/electrics etc but more a plausible adaptation. Just chill.
 
Back
Top Bottom