Discussion What is the most efficient way to crowdsource the 3D system coordinates

RedWizzard · Nov 1, 2014

I have just committed an update to systems.json. I've added all the Beta 3 reference stars and updated/removed incorrect Beta 2 reference stars. Stars we crowd-sourced in Beta 2 are still in the file but marked as unverified (except for a few I've verified myself). The system from Michael's Beta 3 list that has the coordinates of the old Chara is called Chara in this file. The system called Chara in Michael's list and the other unnamed system are both well outside the Beta 3 region so I've excluded them. Beta 2 reference stars that are not on the Beta 3 list from Michael have been checked by comparing calculated distances to in-game distances from two different systems. This is not 100% confirmation, but it's 99%+ and I bet there are no cases where are star has moved but I've called it verified (the new position would have to lie on the circle defined by the two stars I measured from and also align to the 1/32 Ly grid to cause a "false verification").

The region property indicates the status of the star. It is generally the development phase that the star was introduced with, so stars from beta 2 that are also in beta 3 continue to show "Beta2". Stars that were in Beta 2 and are in the same position in Beta 3 but are unreachable have "Beta2 (outside Beta3)". Stars with calculated locations that have not been verified in beta 3 have "(unverified)" appended to their region.

Counts:
Total stars: 1076
Total verified stars: 819

Reference stars in beta 3 sausage: 804
Reference stars outside beta 3 sausage: 9 (including Sol)
Verified stars with calculated position: 6 (including one outside the sausage)
Unverified stars with calculated position: 257 (including 11 outside the sausage)

Pre-beta 3 reference stars that are no longer valid: 49 (see list in spoiler)

"Andjeri",
"Apishim",
"Arabha",
"Ba Bhumiang Ku",
"Bangati",
"Boro Kacharis",
"Chemetitana",
"Chirichianco",
"Clotti",
"Coquenchis",
"Dharai",
"Er Lo Wu Di",
"Haras",
"Harpulo",
"Hsini",
"Jaoismonjin",
"Jieguaje",
"Jurua",
"Kambalua",
"Killke",
"Kulkanabossongma",
"Kuunggati",
"Kwaraseti",
"Lugiu Bezelana",
"Maidubii",
"Manamaya",
"Men Samit",
"Mistae",
"Mistana",
"Nguruai Trimpaso",
"Nimba",
"Njirika",
"Nyon T'ao Wujin",
"Pareco",
"Pata Thewi",
"Poqomathi",
"Reiene Maorai",
"San Guaralaru",
"Sumi",
"Tai Qing",
"Tapari",
"Tapipinouphinien",
"Taurawa",
"Titicate",
"Toyota",
"Tring",
"Vaccimici",
"Zhu Rong",
"Zosia"

Observations:
There are a few Beta 2 reference stars that are in the same position but now unreachable. This means that the Beta 3 sausage does not entirely contain the Beta 2 pill (so obviously has a different major axis).

There were about 100 Beta 2 reference stars that are not on Michael's Beta 3 list. These fall into 3 groups:
1. About 50% are in the same position so must have been excluded from Michael's list because they have lost their economies. These are probably mostly stars that have been identified and positioned based on real world data but have procedurally generated system contents.
2. About 25% are gone entirely. These must have been entirely procedurally generated, including the names.
3. About 25% have moved. This is too many for them to be random names that are being reused. Most of these systems must be procedurally generated systems that were then named from a predetermined list (backer supplied names perhaps).

What is notable about the stars in the first group above is that the vast majority of those names are obviously catalog names (HIP*, LHS*, etc) or names from constellations (* Draconis, Eta Cephei, etc). So FD have not modified their Real Life derived stars positions for Beta 3 and I think they are extremely unlikely to do so for Gamma. I think it would be quite safe for us to crowd-source the locations of all Beta 3 stars of this type (which are easy to identify). These will be the ones I will focus on verifying first of the systems we have unverified positions for.

maddavo · Nov 1, 2014

Great work - THANK you @RedWizzard.

There are three sets of systems with duplicate coordinates:

Code:

'LP 27-9'	-70.40625	25.4375	-32.40625	Beta2	2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z
'LP 41909'	-70.40625	25.4375	-32.40625	Beta3	2014-11-01T06:36:37.633Z

'LP 1-52'	-49.9375	28.8125	-33.28125	Beta2	2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z
'LP 18994'	-49.9375	28.8125	-33.28125	Beta3	2014-11-01T06:36:37.633Z

'LP 5-88'	-27.28125	19.59375	-23.03125	Beta2	2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z
'LP 32264'	-27.28125	19.59375	-23.03125	Beta3	2014-11-01T06:36:37.633Z

I'm going to use the Beta 2 names - the Beta 3 names don't seem to be in the GM.

Biteketkergetek · Nov 1, 2014

I don't see the LP ##### names without dashes in the original list. Perhaps something went wrong with the update? Nice work anyway!

I just finished my update tool, I dropped all beta 2 systems, but taken the station lists from there into the corresponding ones in beta 3. My results are here.

maddavo · Nov 1, 2014

@RedWizzard

I found that G 14-6 is missing from the json

Code:

'G 14-6'	13.5	30.375	9.0625	'Beta3'

Biteketkergetek · Nov 1, 2014

@RedWizzard: does this mean that the systems marked with "region": "Beta2" are verified by your 99+% method, and "Beta2 (unverified)" are possibly incorrect from the Beta 2 pill?

I would like to know this because I would then add them to my map.

Harbinger · Nov 1, 2014

Biteketkergetek said:
@RedWizzard: does this mean that the systems marked with "region": "Beta2" are verified by your 99+% method, and "Beta2 (unverified)" are possibly incorrect from the Beta 2 pill?

I would like to know this because I would then add them to my map.

They seem to be marked as "Beta2 (unverified)" because there are insufficient distance measurements to reliably calculate their coordinates to 1 specific point (some of the reverse distance checks from a recalculation of the coordinates fail). This is likely because some of the reference stars used no longer exist in Beta 3. Essentially they need more distance measurements to be sure that they're still at the same coordinates as previously.

I have some updates, some of which are confirmations of "Beta2 (unverified)" plus 4 new systems:

Code:

[
    {
        "name": "Veren's Stop",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "anon via Codec, RedWizzard, Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T15:42:55.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "41 Gamma Serpentis",
                "distance": "4.867"
            },
            {
                "system": "LHS 411",
                "distance": "2.326"
            },
            {
                "system": "SDSS J1416+1348",
                "distance": "15.695"
            },
            {
                "system": "Keries",
                "distance": "11.041"
            },
            {
                "system": "Eranin",
                "distance": "27.758"
            },
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 61.417
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 125.73
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 134.19
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 117.89
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 134.18
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 115.55
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 93.6
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 37.17
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 54.74
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 80.72
            }
        ],
        "x": -12.96875,
        "y": 21.96875,
        "z": 20.28125,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "LHS 396",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "RedWizzard, Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T16:31:08.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "41 Gamma Serpentis",
                "distance": "5.858"
            },
            {
                "system": "SDSS J1416+1348",
                "distance": "13.028"
            },
            {
                "system": "Keries",
                "distance": "12.519"
            },
            {
                "system": "Eranin",
                "distance": "25.875"
            },
            {
                "system": "Basium",
                "distance": "81.843"
            },
            {
                "system": "35 Draconis",
                "distance": "92.116"
            },
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 64.54
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 126.14
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 136.74
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 119.91
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 135.9
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 119.35
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 97.57
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 41.42
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 55.93
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 77.73
            }
        ],
        "x": -9.875,
        "y": 30.84375,
        "z": 20.46875,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "DE Bootis",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "JesusFreke, RedWizzard, Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T16:53:08.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 63.65
            },
            {
                "system": "35 Draconis",
                "distance": 91.978
            },
            {
                "system": "Keries",
                "distance": 13.423
            },
            {
                "system": "Wyrd",
                "distance": 21.38
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 126.13
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 137.48
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 121.19
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 137.28
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 119.56
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 98.08
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 39.68
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 52.71
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 73.68
            },
            {
                "system": "Eranin",
                "distance": 24.15
            },
            {
                "system": "Chini",
                "distance": 78.06
            }
        ],
        "x": -7.4375,
        "y": 32.625,
        "z": 17,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "Ross 52",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "anon via Codec, Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T17:05:35.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "LHS 411",
                "distance": "9.008"
            },
            {
                "system": "Rakapila",
                "distance": "8.908"
            },
            {
                "system": "Bolg",
                "distance": "12.505"
            },
            {
                "system": "CE Bootis",
                "distance": "4.382"
            },
            {
                "system": "LHS 2887",
                "distance": "8.031"
            },
            {
                "system": "Aulin",
                "distance": "14.572"
            },
            {
                "system": "SDSS J1416+1348",
                "distance": "8.111"
            },
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 59.488
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 124.3
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 135.09
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 119.58
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 135.94
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 116.03
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 94.69
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 35.03
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 48.53
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 72.42
            }
        ],
        "x": -8.4375,
        "y": 29.15625,
        "z": 13.3125,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "G 148-13",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T17:25:28.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Sol",
                "distance": 28.002
            },
            {
                "system": "Wolf 497",
                "distance": 23.856
            },
            {
                "system": "Huokang",
                "distance": 23.256
            },
            {
                "system": "Demeter",
                "distance": 58.483
            },
            {
                "system": "Fu Haiting",
                "distance": 80.89
            },
            {
                "system": "HIP 105906",
                "distance": 126.468
            },
            {
                "system": "HIP 91906",
                "distance": 114.918
            },
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 52.521
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 124.35
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 136.31
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 124.81
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 141.8
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 112.83
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 93.58
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 23.35
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 27.6
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 55.94
            }
        ],
        "x": -0.40625,
        "y": 27.09375,
        "z": -7.0625,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "LHS 316",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T17:41:30.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Sol",
                "distance": 26.786
            },
            {
                "system": "Wolf 497",
                "distance": 27.953
            },
            {
                "system": "Huokang",
                "distance": 20.402
            },
            {
                "system": "Demeter",
                "distance": 54.792
            },
            {
                "system": "Fu Haiting",
                "distance": 75.276
            },
            {
                "system": "HIP 105906",
                "distance": 121.229
            },
            {
                "system": "HIP 91906",
                "distance": 110.052
            },
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 46.256
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 119.38
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 130.57
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 119.58
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 136.71
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 106.57
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 87.34
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 21.67
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 26.55
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 60.63
            }
        ],
        "x": -5.875,
        "y": 24.40625,
        "z": -9.34375,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "Beurex",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T17:58:42.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Sol",
                "distance": 29.636
            },
            {
                "system": "Wolf 497",
                "distance": 23.729
            },
            {
                "system": "Huokang",
                "distance": 21.52
            },
            {
                "system": "Demeter",
                "distance": 57.189
            },
            {
                "system": "Fu Haiting",
                "distance": 79.341
            },
            {
                "system": "HIP 105906",
                "distance": 124.767
            },
            {
                "system": "HIP 91906",
                "distance": 113.195
            },
            {
                "system": "Moros",
                "distance": 51.37
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 122.62
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 134.88
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 123.39
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 140.35
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 111.63
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 92.43
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 24.83
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 28.04
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 56.72
            }
        ],
        "x": -1.65625,
        "y": 28.53125,
        "z": -7.84375,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "Shudun Sector AA-A d142",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T18:08:43.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 121.85
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 135.45
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 123.51
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 140.24
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 113.36
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 94.24
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 30.77
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 31.67
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 56.27
            },
            {
                "system": "Eranin",
                "distance": 22.7
            }
        ],
        "x": -1.15625,
        "y": 34.53125,
        "z": -7.59375,
        "region": "Beta3"
    },
    {
        "name": "Gweir",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T18:28:44.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Sol",
                "distance": 33.955
            },
            {
                "system": "Wolf 497",
                "distance": 25.693
            },
            {
                "system": "Huokang",
                "distance": 20.852
            },
            {
                "system": "Demeter",
                "distance": 62.2
            },
            {
                "system": "Fu Haiting",
                "distance": 81.594
            },
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 125.34
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 138.7
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 127.79
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 144.67
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 115.18
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 96.63
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 28.07
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 26.08
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 50.86
            }
        ],
        "x": 3.125,
        "y": 31.75,
        "z": -11.625,
        "region": "Beta2"
    },
    {
        "name": "Charick Drift",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T18:54:06.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 132.7
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 144.9
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 133.44
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 150.4
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 120.98
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 101.95
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 24.11
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 27.39
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 48.53
            }
        ],
        "x": 8.1875,
        "y": 26.71875,
        "z": -6.0625,
        "region": "Beta3"
    },
    {
        "name": "DS Leonis",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T19:16:11.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 131.33
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 145.59
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 134.75
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 151.5
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 122.12
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 103.94
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 32.51
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 27.86
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 43.96
            },
            {
                "system": "Eranin",
                "distance": 34.96
            }
        ],
        "x": 10.25,
        "y": 34.875,
        "z": -12.34375,
        "region": "Beta3"
    },
    {
        "name": "DX 1217",
        "calculated": true,
        "contributor": "Harbinger",
        "contributed": "2014-11-01T19:38:41.000Z",
        "distances": [
            {
                "system": "Ammapa",
                "distance": 132.52
            },
            {
                "system": "Wanggu",
                "distance": 145.53
            },
            {
                "system": "Piran",
                "distance": 132.78
            },
            {
                "system": "Yakan",
                "distance": 149.46
            },
            {
                "system": "Suraci",
                "distance": 123.38
            },
            {
                "system": "Gera",
                "distance": 103.82
            },
            {
                "system": "Arin",
                "distance": 30.15
            },
            {
                "system": "Pollux",
                "distance": 34.75
            },
            {
                "system": "Amun",
                "distance": 51.4
            }
        ],
        "x": 7.5,
        "y": 32.125,
        "z": -0.65625,
        "region": "Beta3"
    }
]

Smacker · Nov 1, 2014

Biteketkergetek said:
I don't see the LP ##### names without dashes in the original list. Perhaps something went wrong with the update? Nice work anyway!

I just finished my update tool, I dropped all beta 2 systems, but taken the station lists from there into the corresponding ones in beta 3. My results are here.

It looks like the station names have mostly changed, not sure how valid that approach is.

Harbinger · Nov 1, 2014

Smacker said:
It looks like the station names have mostly changed, not sure how valid that approach is.

I'm noting station names plus their distance from the jump in point in my own systems.json (which is appended to RedWizzard's systems.json release in post #1041) as I pass through systems containing an economy. Bookmark this link:

Code:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GOSqs6Iq2McTc1Yml6TExkOGM/view?usp=sharing

This is my live systems.json and will be updated with new (and reconfirmed) systems and space stations regularly.

Example of a system containing stations in my systems.json:

Code:

    {
        "name": "Eranin",
        "contributor": "FD",
        "x": -22.84375,
        "y": 36.53125,
        "z": -1.1875,
        "region": "Alpha4",
        "contributed": "2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z",
        "stations": [
            {
                "name": "Azeban Orbital",
                "distance": 298
            },
            {
                "name": "Azeban City",
                "distance": 298
            },
            {
                "name": "Eranin 4 Survey",
                "distance": 2022
            }
        ]
    },

Biteketkergetek · Nov 1, 2014

Smacker said:
It looks like the station names have mostly changed, not sure how valid that approach is.

Hey Smacker, thanks for dropping in. That is correct, unfortunately. I'll add a flag to both the DB and JSON so the validity may be checked. This way it will be know whether they have been verified or inferred. This will be a string field "valid", a field like the "region" in systems.json from RedWizzard or the "added" table in TradeDangerous, but drops the info when they were in fact added (because I don't think that is relevant, apart from historical purposes) and shows just the last version of the game it was checked in.

I'm still working on the json format, it is basically specified is the go code in db/data.go file. Not my dbtool in the same project can read/write this file to json/sqlite, read the TradeDangerous db (on which my own schema is based on, but drops UNIQUE name for systems/stations), read the raw data posted by wolverine, and combine them even if a system name seems to be a duplicate. Perhaps this is overkill, but I wanted reproducible results.

Basically data/beta3upd (which I use in msys bash) says how it was generated (elite.sqlite being mostly based on TD data from your Pillage branch).

I'd like to add support for systems.json as well, that would be trivial once I completely understand what the different "region" values mean.

Smacker · Nov 1, 2014

Biteketkergetek said:
Hey Smacker, thanks for dropping in. That is correct, unfortunately. I'll add a flag to both the DB and JSON so the validity may be checked. This way it will be know whether they have been verified or inferred. This will be a string field "valid", a field like the "region" in systems.json from RedWizzard or the "added" table in TradeDangerous, but drops the info when they were in fact added (because I don't think that is relevant, apart from historical purposes) and shows just the last version of the game it was checked in.

I'm still working on the json format, it is basically specified is the go code in db/data.go file. Not my dbtool in the same project can read/write this file to json/sqlite, read the TradeDangerous db (on which my own schema is based on, but drops UNIQUE name for systems/stations), read the raw data posted by wolverine, and combine them even if a system name seems to be a duplicate. Perhaps this is overkill, but I wanted reproducible results. Basically data/beta3upd (which I use in msys bash) says how it was generated (elite.sqlite being mostly based on TD data from your Pillage branch).

I'd like to add support for systems.json as well, that would be trivial once I completely understand what the different "region" values mean.

Thanks, nothing like being thorough!

Biteketkergetek · Nov 1, 2014

Harbinger said:
I'm noting station names plus their distance from the jump in point in my own systems.json (which is appended to RedWizzard's systems.json release in post #1041) as I pass through systems containing an economy. Bookmark this link:

Code:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GOSqs6Iq2McTc1Yml6TExkOGM/view?usp=sharing

This is my live systems.json and will be updated with new (and reconfirmed) systems and space stations regularly.

Example of a system containing stations in my systems.json:

Code:

{ "name": "Eranin", "contributor": "FD", "x": -22.84375, "y": 36.53125, "z": -1.1875, "region": "Alpha4", "contributed": "2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z", "stations": [ { "name": "Azeban Orbital", "distance": 298 }, { "name": "Azeban City", "distance": 298 }, { "name": "Eranin 4 Survey", "distance": 2022 } ] },

Good job with adding and finding the stations. Does your json list only stations verified to exist in Beta 3?

May I ask what the purpose is of adding them just like that? For my own code I added them so shipyards, commodity markets and black markets are also listed (true/false, or omitted if no info). I've just realised that I need to add "outfitting" too. Now that we have fuel scoops, the disctance or existence of stations does not seem too relevant to me, especially because the bulletin board courier and hauling missions do not seem as lucrative as in Beta 2.

RedWizzard · Nov 1, 2014

maddavo said:
There are three sets of systems with duplicate coordinates:

Code:

'LP 27-9' -70.40625 25.4375 -32.40625 Beta2 2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z 'LP 41909' -70.40625 25.4375 -32.40625 Beta3 2014-11-01T06:36:37.633Z 'LP 1-52' -49.9375 28.8125 -33.28125 Beta2 2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z 'LP 18994' -49.9375 28.8125 -33.28125 Beta3 2014-11-01T06:36:37.633Z 'LP 5-88' -27.28125 19.59375 -23.03125 Beta2 2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z 'LP 32264' -27.28125 19.59375 -23.03125 Beta3 2014-11-01T06:36:37.633Z

I'm going to use the Beta 2 names - the Beta 3 names don't seem to be in the GM.
...

I found that G 14-6 is missing from the json

Code:

'G 14-6' 13.5 30.375 9.0625 'Beta3'

Thanks for spotting these. Excel kindly converted '27-9', '1-52', '5-88', '14-6' in dates and then subsequently into the number representations 41909, 18994, 32264, 41804. Not sure quite how that happened.

I've deleted the LP xxxxx versions - the beta 2 versions are correct. G 14-6 is in the file as G 41804, I've now fixed the name.

RedWizzard · Nov 1, 2014

Biteketkergetek said:
@RedWizzard: does this mean that the systems marked with "region": "Beta2" are verified by your 99+% method, and "Beta2 (unverified)" are possibly incorrect from the Beta 2 pill?

I would like to know this because I would then add them to my map.

Yes, that's correct. I haven't checked the "Beta2 (unverified)" systems at all so they might not exist at all or they might have different coordinates in Beta 3. The "Beta2" systems I've confirmed as existing with at least two distances shown in the game matching distances calculated from the coordinates. You'd probably want to ignore the "Beta2 (unverified)" systems for now.

Edit: I've left the Wredguia/Wregoe systems in the file for now but I'm pretty sure they are all gone in Beta 3.

RedWizzard · Nov 1, 2014

Harbinger said:
They seem to be marked as "Beta2 (unverified)" because there are insufficient distance measurements to reliably calculate their coordinates to 1 specific point (some of the reverse distance checks from a recalculation of the coordinates fail). This is likely because some of the reference stars used no longer exist in Beta 3. Essentially they need more distance measurements to be sure that they're still at the same coordinates as previously.

I haven't actually tried recalculating the coordinates. The bulk of the "unverified" systems would have enough distances to calculate coordinates but they might not even exist in Beta 3 so they all need to be checked in game. For the cases where there are enough distances to calculate coordinates already in the file I'm content to just check a two or three distances in game match what the coordinates predict.

Harbinger said:
I have some updates, some of which are confirmations of "Beta2 (unverified)" plus 4 new systems:

Thanks, I've updated my version with these. I recommend focusing on the systems that are least likely to change. E.g. "DS Leonis" looks like a constellation-based name and "DX 1217" looks like a catalog name. I think the positions of those systems are very unlikely to change. But "Shudun Sector AA-A d142" is s generated name and I think those systems are quite likely to change in Gamma.

Harbinger said:
I'm noting station names plus their distance from the jump in point in my own systems.json (which is appended to RedWizzard's systems.json release in post #1041) as I pass through systems containing an economy. Bookmark this link:

Code:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_GOSqs6Iq2McTc1Yml6TExkOGM/view?usp=sharing

This is my live systems.json and will be updated with new (and reconfirmed) systems and space stations regularly.

Example of a system containing stations in my systems.json:

Code:

{ "name": "Eranin", "contributor": "FD", "x": -22.84375, "y": 36.53125, "z": -1.1875, "region": "Alpha4", "contributed": "2014-10-21T17:16:31.000Z", "stations": [ { "name": "Azeban Orbital", "distance": 298 }, { "name": "Azeban City", "distance": 298 }, { "name": "Eranin 4 Survey", "distance": 2022 } ] },

I plan to bring the station data into my version as well. One thing I'd like to change is to use "station" instead of "name" as I occasionally do text searches on "name" to pull out all the system names. Would that change cause much trouble for you?

I think station data is even more likely to change than the system coordinates for gamma so I probably won't collect any of this myself.

Harbinger · Nov 1, 2014

Biteketkergetek said:
Good job with adding and finding the stations. Does your json list only stations verified to exist in Beta 3?

Yes, entirely beta 3 stations.

Biteketkergetek said:
May I ask what the purpose is of adding them just like that? For my own code I added them so shipyards, commodity markets and black markets are also listed (true/false, or omitted if no info). I've just realised that I need to add "outfitting" too. Now that we have fuel scoops, the disctance or existence of stations does not seem too relevant to me, especially because the bulletin board courier and hauling missions do not seem as lucrative as in Beta 2.

When I visit a system it tends to be a quick in and out, I don't physically visit them unless I actually have to (repairs etc.) hence I don't log any additional information on them like where or not they have a marketplace or black market. It's merely a reference of the space stations and their distances (LS) from the jump in point currently. I may expand on it later but I'm currently working my way through reverifying many of the "Beta2 (unverified)" systems.

Harbinger · Nov 2, 2014

RedWizzard said:
I haven't actually tried recalculating the coordinates. The bulk of the "unverified" systems would have enough distances to calculate coordinates but they might not even exist in Beta 3 so they all need to be checked in game. For the cases where there are enough distances to calculate coordinates already in the file I'm content to just check a two or three distances in game match what the coordinates predict.

Thanks for the clarification. As I mentioned above I'm currently working my way through these unverified systems and updating the file on google drive regularly so be sure to check my live systems.json for updates occasionally. (My last update was ~15 minutes ago)

RedWizzard said:
Thanks, I've updated my version with these. I recommend focusing on the systems that are least likely to change. E.g. "DS Leonis" looks like a constellation-based name and "DX 1217" looks like a catalog name. I think the positions of those systems are very unlikely to change. But "Shudun Sector AA-A d142" is s generated name and I think those systems are quite likely to change in Gamma.

Yeah I fully expect them to change in the Gamma but I was in the neighbourhood.

RedWizzard said:
I plan to bring the station data into my version as well. One thing I'd like to change is to use "station" instead of "name" as I occasionally do text searches on "name" to pull out all the system names. Would that change cause much trouble for you?

I think station data is even more likely to change than the system coordinates for gamma so I probably won't collect any of this myself.

If you have a format change in mind I'm sure I can adapt.

Biteketkergetek · Nov 2, 2014

Thanks for the info. This data may still be very useful to have around, because the data I've mentioned may be available from elsewhere. For example when I read the sql I mark stations that are known sell at least one ship as having a shipyard, or selling any commodity as having a commodity market.

Biteketkergetek · Nov 2, 2014

RedWizzard said:
I plan to bring the station data into my version as well. One thing I'd like to change is to use "station" instead of "name" as I occasionally do text searches on "name" to pull out all the system names. Would that change cause much trouble for you?

I think station data is even more likely to change than the system coordinates for gamma so I probably won't collect any of this myself.

I think I have that idea kind of generalized. In my code (but not in JSON) all the types have the field names as "name". This is so for systems, stations, ships, commodities, etc. But JSON objects has no type, so instead of just using "name", I use the type being used instead. Therefore I have "system", "station", "ship" and such instead of "name" in the JSON. Just have a look at my JSON: you should find no match for "name", and even in the middle of the file (ie. without knowing that you are looking at elements of the "systems" key) with no indentation it should be immediately apparent whether you are looking at a system or a station (or even a ship or commodity).

So I think this would be a good thing, and hopefully easy to handle/implement.

Harbinger · Nov 2, 2014

Changed from stations[]name to stations[]station

Harbinger · Nov 2, 2014

OK I'm done for the night, there will be no further changes to my systems.json until tomorrow. I have also verified these Wredguia stars definitely don't exist any more:

Wredguia BD-Q b46-2
Wredguia BZ-H c23-24
Wredguia CO-O b47-3
Wredguia DO-O b47-1
Wredguia DO-O b47-4
Wredguia DO-O b47-3
Wredguia EJ-O b47-3
Wredguia EJ-O b47-5
Wredguia DK-G c24-18

As such I've removed them from my systems.json.