Discussion What is the most efficient way to crowdsource the 3D system coordinates

[graham.reeds]

brain dump

A db that has stored procedures would be ideal.

We have canonical systems provided by Mr Brookes.

To make another system canonical it would have to have distance linked to it by all other canonical systems.

Easiest way would be to ask a visitor on a trade screen to provide a distance to a canonical system.

That means a working trade system...

 

[Chromatix]

Thanks to trigonometry, it is only necessary to have distances to *some* canonical systems, so that its *position* can be fixed. Please read the rest of this thread for some of the ways we're doing that.

 

[graham.reeds]

I have. But you are picking distant points. Why pick distant points when local should suffice?

 

[Codec]

Local points are good, in fact better than distant ones as the errors will be less.

The best way to get good triangulation is to go to the new system, then pick 4 or 5
nearby systems in as many directions as you can. Up down, left, right, back front etc.
Preferrably from known systems with stations in them, as we have reliable data on those.

If the systems you pick are all roughly in the same location relative to the new system, then again the errors grow bigger.

BTW - I computed a new batch of locations and added to the spreadsheets.

 

[Mike Juliett Kilo]

Those four systems are rather close together (all near the middle of the B1 bubble), so you'll get less accurate results for any "interesting" systems further out.

I know the choices were not very good - but were sufficient for my tests. Basically I wanted four systems that I could remember the names of!

Since we have coordinates for all of the B2 *populated* systems, you could (and should) choose widely-spaced reference systems from that list.

Yep- I'm intending to do just that. Using Sol at 0,0,0 is a good idea - and it's easy to spell! (I want short, easy names as they have to be typed into the galaxy map many times).

Can you post the coordinates of your reference stars? Never mind - I found your spreadsheet. Which reference points do you recommend?



EDIT2: I've updated the algorithm to select reference stars by following the below steps:

1) Assume that the star we are mapping is reasonably close to the star we just jumped from. The coordinate of this is the "approx position"
2) Reference star 1 is Sol
3) Find the known star for which the scalar product (star-approx_position) . (reference1 - approx_position) is minimised and the distance to the target star is at least 15 ly. This is reference star 2.
4) Find the known star for which the greatest of
i) scalar product (star-approx_position) . (reference1 - approx_position)
and ii) scalar product (star-approx_position) . (reference2 - approx_position)
is minimised. This is reference star 3.

5) Repeat the above for reference star 4.

This gives three stars which have vectors approximately orthogonal from our current system, thus forming a good basis for solving the trilateration problem. The 4th star will point roughly away from the three other stars. Probably it is best to make this 4th star be in the -z direction in the reference star coordinate system, but not really a problem for now.

 

[Chromatix]

There is no disadvantage to using distant stars, because the game gives us the distances to a thousandth of a lightyear (in the galaxy map, not elsewhere) regardless of the magnitude of the distance.

The *advantage* to using distant stars is that you can use the same ones for all of your measurements without losing precision. You could even optimise a GUI for that case, which would save typing.

The "external" references (well-known navigation stars) which I'm setting up are Achenar, Alpha Cygni, Alphard, Enif, Etamin, Mirphak, Polaris, Rigel. Most of these are hundreds, some over a thousand light-years away from the B2 bubble, and they form a large convex hull which encloses it (which is ideal). However, their positions are not yet precisely enough established to *use* as references - I need to take more measurements to them from systems whose positions are already known.

Eyeballing my maps, I think good references from the official data would be Sol (or Flousop), Tring, Rahu, Parcae, Hepa, Poqomathi, Hyperion, Aulin. These are not necessarily a geometrically optimal set, but they are relatively distant from each other and relatively difficult to mistype.

 

[Snuble]

Tested Trilineration from one side of the bubble to the other last night. Targets where 3 known stars, San Guaralaru, Toyota and Theta Draconis. For the test I jumped between LHS 355, Arcturus, LHS 411 and Ross 860.

The coords where off on the 3rd digit. About 99.999% accuracy. For the 4 reference stars the distance is of course perfect. I suspect that for route planning the calculated coords even across 150LY distance will be good enough for anything but the off systems that matches distance exactly to your current jump range.

For my purpose its good enough to just visit the systems 1 and 1 and do math when I'm there, the time spent gathering data from in game is the major problem. Given 4 distances from 4 relative spread out systems it would be the time it takes me to touch the numbers to calculate good enough coords for navigation.

Wasnt the original plan for unknown systems that coords where not known? That you had to eyeball some part of space and discover the main stars much like we currently do with the secondary?

 

[Chromatix]

It's hard to see how that would work, though, since even Proxima Centauri is invisible to the naked eye from Alpha Centauri, and that's a red dwarf at much less than a lightyear. The chances of discovering a brown dwarf or a black hole at multi-lightyear distances by eyeball alone would be nil.

I think it's much more likely that there are reasonably powerful telescopes performing surveys for star systems from multiple vantage points. That's the most effective method for discovering them. You only have to get up close and personal to investigate the minor bodies.

 

[Snuble]

You have the relevant DDA here:

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418

Using the data they have gathered the player must align their ship as best they can with the target system and activate the hyperdrive to jump to the system

So if the DDA will be implemented faceplanting a star you dont really know enough about will no longer be something you do.

There is more then a chance that the deadline is getting too close to implement that stuff, and it will be hard to do once game is released. If it is implemented we might sit on accurate coordinates, but still have to do in game discovery in Gamma to reveal the galaxy. Personally I sort of like that prospect tough.

 

[gazelle]

own trilateration

After getting interested in this trilateration stuff I wrote my own programm, which also takes the 1/32 rule into account.

Based on the coordinates from the shared spreadsheet I got following results:

16 Cephei       ( -108,          30.03125,   -42.25   )
4 Cephei        ( -132.09375,    35.5,       -27.875  )
Achenar         (   67.5,      -119.46875,    24.84375)
Alpha Cygni     (-1405,          46.125,     132.5    )
Alphard         (  138.84375,    88.46875,   -73.5    )
Austern         (  -25.15625,    15.34375,     9.375  )
Culan           (  -36.0625,     14.625,      13.8125 )
Enif            ( -536.59375,  -363.03125,   236.1875 )
Etamin          ( -132.46875,    74.875,      25.53125)
GD 356          (  -50.9375,     44.15625,     7.3125 )
Hagalaz         (  -50.59375,    45.15625,    11.09375)
HIP 103014      ( -132.46875,    33.25,      -28.5625 )
HIP 109479      ( -127.5,        29.875,     -48.5    )
HIP 111494      ( -106.9375,     30.0625,    -48.4375 )
HIP 94802       ( -114.59375,    51.40625,   -25.90625)
LHS 457         (  -31.75,       16.65625,    15.5    )
LP 180-17       (  -56.84375,    37.71875,    12.71875)
Mirphak         ( -274.96875,   -47.625,    -422.65625)
Polaris         ( -322.6875,    194.59375,  -212.4375 )
Rigel           (  385.78125,  -360.40625,  -682.53125)
Ross 52         (   -8.4375,     29.15625,    13.3125 )
SDSS J1416+1348 (   -0.6875,     27.15625,    12      )
Sol             (    0,           0,           0      )
Taran           (  -42.5,        45.46875,    -3      )
Veren's Stop    (  -12.96875,    21.96875,    20.28125)

Detailed output:

Spoiler

New: 16 Cephei (-108,30.03125,-42.25):
     Aulin               :   100.076   100.076 
     Baga                :    17.485    17.485 
     Gera                :    27.921    27.921 
     Hepa                :   101.291   101.291 
     Sumi                :    50.545    50.545 
     Tyr                 :    34.317    34.317 
     insert

New: 4 Cephei (-132.09375,35.5,-27.875):
     Aulin               :   117.079   117.079 
     Baga                :    39.663    39.663 
     Gera                :    49.729    49.729 
     Hepa                :   113.931   113.931 
     Sumi                :    75.664    75.664 
     Tyr                 :    54.442    54.442 
     insert

New: Achenar (67.5,-119.46875,24.84375):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   165.847   165.847 
     Aulin               :   176.513   176.513 
     Ross 905            :   167.107   167.107 
     Theta Draconis      :   205.549   205.549 
     Tring               :   243.178   243.178 
     insert

New: AKTZIN (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Alpha Cygni (-1405,46.09375,132.5):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :  1397.327  1397.327 
     Aulin               :  1391.255  1391.255 
     Ross 905            :  1416.448  1416.448 
     Theta Draconis      :  1362.519  1362.519 
     Tring               :  1292.807  1292.806 !
New: Alpha Cygni (-1405,46.125,132.5):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :  1397.327  1397.327 
     Aulin               :  1391.255  1391.255 
     Ross 905            :  1416.448  1416.448 
     Theta Draconis      :  1362.519  1362.519 
     Tring               :  1292.807  1292.807 
     no insert, found 2 coordinates

New: Alphard (138.84375,88.46875,-73.5):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   189.689   189.689 
     Aulin               :   185.383   185.383 
     Ross 905            :   160.143   160.143 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :   174.753 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      :   205.667   205.667 
     Tring               :   276.947   276.947 
     insert

New: Austern (-25.15625,15.34375,9.375):
     LP-229-17           :     6.673 (unknown)
     86 Mu Herculis      :     8.762     8.762 
     LP 336-6            :    10.591 (unknown)
     Connla              :     6.442     6.442 
     44 chi Draconis     :    15.298    15.298 
     WISE 1647+5632      :     8.745     8.745 
     insert

New: CHI Hercules (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Culan (-36.0625,14.625,13.8125):
     Caer Bran           :     4.792     4.792 
     NLTT 46621          :    13.182    13.182 
     Malina              :    14.748    14.748 
     V1090 Herculis      :    24.015    24.015 
     Vaccimici           :    22.921    22.921 
     insert

New: Culann (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Enif (-536.59375,-363.03125,236.1875):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   686.961   686.961 
     Aulin               :   690.904   690.904 
     Ross 905            :   712.738   712.738 
     Theta Draconis      :   680.149   680.149 
     Tring               :   623.398   623.398 
     insert

New: Etamin (-132.46875,74.875,25.53125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   129.917   129.917 
     Aulin               :   122.194   122.194 
     Ross 905            :   147.201   147.201 
     Theta Draconis      :    91.351    91.351 
     Tring               :    98.623    98.623 
     insert

New: GD 356 (-50.9375,44.15625,7.3125):
     Theta Draconis      :     8.516     8.516 
     Taran               :    13.389 (unknown)
     Surya               :    13.534    13.534 
     Demeter             :     5.537     5.537 
     Hagalaz             :     3.926 (unknown)
     CR Draconis         :     4.356     4.356 
     CR Draco            :     4.642     4.642 
     insert

New: Hagalaz (-50.59375,45.15625,11.09375):
     Demeter             :     7.342     7.342 
     Theta Draconis      :    11.565    11.565 
     Taran               :    16.255 (unknown)
     Surya               :    14.637    14.637 
     Ao Qin              :    15.674    15.674 
     Arcturus            :    48.367    48.367 
     Aulin               :    33.925    33.925 
     Sol                 :    68.716 (unknown)
     GD 356              :     3.926     3.926 
     insert

New: HIP 103014 (-132.46875,33.25,-28.5625):
     Aulin               :     117.6   117.600 
     Baga                :    39.432    39.432 
     Gera                :     48.95    48.950 
     Hepa                :    114.57   114.570 
     Sumi                :    75.404    75.404 
     Tyr                 :    54.302    54.302 
     insert

New: HIP 109479 (-127.5,29.875,-48.5):
     Aulin               :   120.279   120.279 
     Baga                :     23.37    23.370 
     Gera                :    45.274    45.274 
     Hepa                :   120.589   120.589 
     Sumi                :    70.123    70.123 
     Tyr                 :    53.997    53.997 
     insert

New: HIP 111494 (-106.9375,30.0625,-48.4375):
     Aulin               :   102.217   102.217 
     Baga                :    11.747    11.747 
     Gera                :    29.774    29.774 
     Hepa                :   104.505   104.505 
     Sumi                :    50.483    50.483 
     Tyr                 :    37.014    37.014 
     insert

New: HIP 94802 (-114.59375,51.40625,-25.90625):
     Aulin               :   101.476   101.476 
     Baga                :    37.295    37.295 
     Gera                :    47.972    47.972 
     Hepa                :    98.938    98.938 
     Sumi                :    66.283    66.283 
     Tyr                 :    46.184    46.184 
     insert

New: LDS 1503 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LHS 396 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LHS 457 (-31.75,16.65625,15.5):
     Culann              :     5.057 (unknown)
     Caer Bran           :     2.944     2.944 
     86 Mu Herculis      :    13.294    13.294 
     Hermitage           :     10.21    10.210 
     72 Herculis         :    10.531    10.531 
     insert

New: LP 180-17 (-56.84375,37.71875,12.71875):
     Aulin               :    38.333    38.333 
     Naraka              :    31.351    31.351 
     Ross 1057           :    36.981    36.981 
     HIP 113477          :    93.485    93.485 
     Titicate            :    86.849    86.849 
     Killke              :    73.431    73.431 
     Gera                :    62.004    62.004 
     insert

New: LP 336-6 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LP 625-34 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LP-229-17 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Marcov's Point (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Mirfak (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Mirphak (-274.96875,-47.625,-422.65625):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   522.499   522.499 
     Aulin               :   504.276   504.276 
     Ross 905            :   506.955   506.955 
     Tring               :   407.471   407.471 
     insert

New: NLT 50716 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: NLTT 47491 A (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: OT Serpentis (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Polaris (-322.6875,194.59375,-212.4375):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   424.553   424.553 
     Aulin               :   406.439   406.439 
     Ross 905            :    419.05   419.050 
     Theta Draconis      :   376.224   376.224 
     Tring               :    316.61   316.610 
     insert

New: Rigel (385.75,-360.4375,-682.53125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :    897.35   897.350 
     Aulin               :   889.541   889.541 
     Ross 905            :   869.126   869.126 
     Theta Draconis      :   906.501   906.500 !
     Tring               :   894.864   894.859 !
New: Rigel (385.78125,-360.40625,-682.53125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :    897.35   897.350 
     Aulin               :   889.541   889.541 
     Ross 905            :   869.126   869.126 
     Theta Draconis      :   906.501   906.501 
     Tring               :   894.864   894.864 
     no insert, found 2 coordinates

New: Ross 52 (-8.4375,29.15625,13.3125):
     Rakapila            :     8.908     8.908 
     Bolg                :    12.505    12.505 
     CE Bootis           :     4.382     4.382 
     LHS 2887            :     8.031     8.031 
     Aulin               :    14.572    14.572 
     LHS 411             :     9.008     9.008 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :     8.111 (unknown)
     insert

New: Sagittarius A* (9581.9375,-18776.625,14990.9375):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25877.164 
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.313 
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25892.752 !
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25920.090 !
     Tring               : 25948.393 25948.393 
New: Sagittarius A* (-9089.1875,-22527.875,8911.625):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25885.908 !
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.313 
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25907.248 
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25900.135 
     Tring               : 25948.393 25856.479 !
New: Sagittarius A* (-9089.15625,-22527.875,8911.65625):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25885.907 !
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.313 
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25907.248 
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25900.135 
     Tring               : 25948.393 25856.479 !
New: Sagittarius A* (25.71875,-21.0625,25899.96875):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25877.164 
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.314 !
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25907.250 !
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25900.137 !
     Tring               : 25948.393 25948.395 !
     no insert, found 4 coordinates

New: SDSS J1416+1348 (-0.6875,27.15625,12):
     Ross 52             :     8.111     8.111 
     Arcturus            :     7.617     7.617 
     Chara               :    17.296    17.296 
     Coelrind            :    10.266    10.266 
     Alphard             :   174.753   174.753 
     Sagittarius A*      : 25888.027 (unknown)
     LHS 396             :    13.028 (unknown)
     OT Serpentis        :    12.655 (unknown)
     Veren's Stop        :    15.695 (unknown)
     Marcov's Point      :    25.652 (unknown)
     LP 625-34           :    22.458 (unknown)
     Sol                 :    29.697 (unknown)
     LHS 411             :    14.435    14.535 !
     insert, WARNING: no perfect match 5 <> 6

New: Sol (0,0,0):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :    36.692    36.692 
     Aulin               :    38.453    38.453 
     Hagalaz             :    68.716    68.716 
     Ross 905            :    33.047    33.047 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :    29.697    29.697 
     Theta Draconis      :    68.614    68.614 
     Tring               :   134.574   134.574 
     insert

New: Taran (-42.5,45.46875,-3):
     Ross 1051           :     5.752     5.752 
     LHS 5287            :     7.032     7.032 
     Surya               :    11.207    11.207 
     Demeter             :    17.269    17.269 
     Styx                :    21.724    21.724 
     Theta Draconis      :     7.584     7.584 
     CR Draco            :    10.336    10.336 
     CR Draconis         :     9.489     9.489 
     Rahu                :    17.238    17.238 
     GD 356              :    13.389    13.389 
     Hagalaz             :    16.255    16.255 
     insert

New: TARANIS (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Veren's Stop (-12.96875,21.96875,20.28125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :     4.867     4.867 
     LHS 411             :     2.326     2.326 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :    15.695    15.695 
     insert, WARNING: only 3 references

New: WREDGUIA AT-0 B47-1 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: WREDGUIA XH-! B46-1 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: WREGOE QA-Q B46-6 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

 

[wolverine2710]

There is no disadvantage to using distant stars, because the game gives us the distances to a thousandth of a lightyear (in the galaxy map, not elsewhere) regardless of the magnitude of the distance.

The *advantage* to using distant stars is that you can use the same ones for all of your measurements without losing precision. You could even optimise a GUI for that case, which would save typing.

The "external" references (well-known navigation stars) which I'm setting up are Achenar, Alpha Cygni, Alphard, Enif, Etamin, Mirphak, Polaris, Rigel. Most of these are hundreds, some over a thousand light-years away from the B2 bubble, and they form a large convex hull which encloses it (which is ideal). However, their positions are not yet precisely enough established to *use* as references - I need to take more measurements to them from systems whose positions are already known.

Eyeballing my maps, I think good references from the official data would be Sol (or Flousop), Tring, Rahu, Parcae, Hepa, Poqomathi, Hyperion, Aulin. These are not necessarily a geometrically optimal set, but they are relatively distant from each other and relatively difficult to mistype.

Back from my holiday and catching up with my thread.

If I've interpreted it correctly when in a star system taking distances we have to write down the distances to: Sol, Flousop, Tring, Rahu, Parcae, Hepa, Poqomathi, Hyperion, Aulin. Nine in total. Its more then the minimum of four needed distances BUT that way your software can be most accurate and can detect faulty input.

 

[wolverine2710]

After getting interested in this trilateration stuff I wrote my own programm, which also takes the 1/32 rule into account.

Based on the coordinates from the shared spreadsheet I got following results:

16 Cephei       ( -108,          30.03125,   -42.25   )
4 Cephei        ( -132.09375,    35.5,       -27.875  )
Achenar         (   67.5,      -119.46875,    24.84375)
Alpha Cygni     (-1405,          46.125,     132.5    )
Alphard         (  138.84375,    88.46875,   -73.5    )
Austern         (  -25.15625,    15.34375,     9.375  )
Culan           (  -36.0625,     14.625,      13.8125 )
Enif            ( -536.59375,  -363.03125,   236.1875 )
Etamin          ( -132.46875,    74.875,      25.53125)
GD 356          (  -50.9375,     44.15625,     7.3125 )
Hagalaz         (  -50.59375,    45.15625,    11.09375)
HIP 103014      ( -132.46875,    33.25,      -28.5625 )
HIP 109479      ( -127.5,        29.875,     -48.5    )
HIP 111494      ( -106.9375,     30.0625,    -48.4375 )
HIP 94802       ( -114.59375,    51.40625,   -25.90625)
LHS 457         (  -31.75,       16.65625,    15.5    )
LP 180-17       (  -56.84375,    37.71875,    12.71875)
Mirphak         ( -274.96875,   -47.625,    -422.65625)
Polaris         ( -322.6875,    194.59375,  -212.4375 )
Rigel           (  385.78125,  -360.40625,  -682.53125)
Ross 52         (   -8.4375,     29.15625,    13.3125 )
SDSS J1416+1348 (   -0.6875,     27.15625,    12      )
Sol             (    0,           0,           0      )
Taran           (  -42.5,        45.46875,    -3      )
Veren's Stop    (  -12.96875,    21.96875,    20.28125)

Detailed output:

Spoiler

New: 16 Cephei (-108,30.03125,-42.25):
     Aulin               :   100.076   100.076 
     Baga                :    17.485    17.485 
     Gera                :    27.921    27.921 
     Hepa                :   101.291   101.291 
     Sumi                :    50.545    50.545 
     Tyr                 :    34.317    34.317 
     insert

New: 4 Cephei (-132.09375,35.5,-27.875):
     Aulin               :   117.079   117.079 
     Baga                :    39.663    39.663 
     Gera                :    49.729    49.729 
     Hepa                :   113.931   113.931 
     Sumi                :    75.664    75.664 
     Tyr                 :    54.442    54.442 
     insert

New: Achenar (67.5,-119.46875,24.84375):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   165.847   165.847 
     Aulin               :   176.513   176.513 
     Ross 905            :   167.107   167.107 
     Theta Draconis      :   205.549   205.549 
     Tring               :   243.178   243.178 
     insert

New: AKTZIN (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Alpha Cygni (-1405,46.09375,132.5):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :  1397.327  1397.327 
     Aulin               :  1391.255  1391.255 
     Ross 905            :  1416.448  1416.448 
     Theta Draconis      :  1362.519  1362.519 
     Tring               :  1292.807  1292.806 !
New: Alpha Cygni (-1405,46.125,132.5):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :  1397.327  1397.327 
     Aulin               :  1391.255  1391.255 
     Ross 905            :  1416.448  1416.448 
     Theta Draconis      :  1362.519  1362.519 
     Tring               :  1292.807  1292.807 
     no insert, found 2 coordinates

New: Alphard (138.84375,88.46875,-73.5):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   189.689   189.689 
     Aulin               :   185.383   185.383 
     Ross 905            :   160.143   160.143 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :   174.753 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      :   205.667   205.667 
     Tring               :   276.947   276.947 
     insert

New: Austern (-25.15625,15.34375,9.375):
     LP-229-17           :     6.673 (unknown)
     86 Mu Herculis      :     8.762     8.762 
     LP 336-6            :    10.591 (unknown)
     Connla              :     6.442     6.442 
     44 chi Draconis     :    15.298    15.298 
     WISE 1647+5632      :     8.745     8.745 
     insert

New: CHI Hercules (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Culan (-36.0625,14.625,13.8125):
     Caer Bran           :     4.792     4.792 
     NLTT 46621          :    13.182    13.182 
     Malina              :    14.748    14.748 
     V1090 Herculis      :    24.015    24.015 
     Vaccimici           :    22.921    22.921 
     insert

New: Culann (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Enif (-536.59375,-363.03125,236.1875):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   686.961   686.961 
     Aulin               :   690.904   690.904 
     Ross 905            :   712.738   712.738 
     Theta Draconis      :   680.149   680.149 
     Tring               :   623.398   623.398 
     insert

New: Etamin (-132.46875,74.875,25.53125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   129.917   129.917 
     Aulin               :   122.194   122.194 
     Ross 905            :   147.201   147.201 
     Theta Draconis      :    91.351    91.351 
     Tring               :    98.623    98.623 
     insert

New: GD 356 (-50.9375,44.15625,7.3125):
     Theta Draconis      :     8.516     8.516 
     Taran               :    13.389 (unknown)
     Surya               :    13.534    13.534 
     Demeter             :     5.537     5.537 
     Hagalaz             :     3.926 (unknown)
     CR Draconis         :     4.356     4.356 
     CR Draco            :     4.642     4.642 
     insert

New: Hagalaz (-50.59375,45.15625,11.09375):
     Demeter             :     7.342     7.342 
     Theta Draconis      :    11.565    11.565 
     Taran               :    16.255 (unknown)
     Surya               :    14.637    14.637 
     Ao Qin              :    15.674    15.674 
     Arcturus            :    48.367    48.367 
     Aulin               :    33.925    33.925 
     Sol                 :    68.716 (unknown)
     GD 356              :     3.926     3.926 
     insert

New: HIP 103014 (-132.46875,33.25,-28.5625):
     Aulin               :     117.6   117.600 
     Baga                :    39.432    39.432 
     Gera                :     48.95    48.950 
     Hepa                :    114.57   114.570 
     Sumi                :    75.404    75.404 
     Tyr                 :    54.302    54.302 
     insert

New: HIP 109479 (-127.5,29.875,-48.5):
     Aulin               :   120.279   120.279 
     Baga                :     23.37    23.370 
     Gera                :    45.274    45.274 
     Hepa                :   120.589   120.589 
     Sumi                :    70.123    70.123 
     Tyr                 :    53.997    53.997 
     insert

New: HIP 111494 (-106.9375,30.0625,-48.4375):
     Aulin               :   102.217   102.217 
     Baga                :    11.747    11.747 
     Gera                :    29.774    29.774 
     Hepa                :   104.505   104.505 
     Sumi                :    50.483    50.483 
     Tyr                 :    37.014    37.014 
     insert

New: HIP 94802 (-114.59375,51.40625,-25.90625):
     Aulin               :   101.476   101.476 
     Baga                :    37.295    37.295 
     Gera                :    47.972    47.972 
     Hepa                :    98.938    98.938 
     Sumi                :    66.283    66.283 
     Tyr                 :    46.184    46.184 
     insert

New: LDS 1503 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LHS 396 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LHS 457 (-31.75,16.65625,15.5):
     Culann              :     5.057 (unknown)
     Caer Bran           :     2.944     2.944 
     86 Mu Herculis      :    13.294    13.294 
     Hermitage           :     10.21    10.210 
     72 Herculis         :    10.531    10.531 
     insert

New: LP 180-17 (-56.84375,37.71875,12.71875):
     Aulin               :    38.333    38.333 
     Naraka              :    31.351    31.351 
     Ross 1057           :    36.981    36.981 
     HIP 113477          :    93.485    93.485 
     Titicate            :    86.849    86.849 
     Killke              :    73.431    73.431 
     Gera                :    62.004    62.004 
     insert

New: LP 336-6 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LP 625-34 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: LP-229-17 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Marcov's Point (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Mirfak (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Mirphak (-274.96875,-47.625,-422.65625):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   522.499   522.499 
     Aulin               :   504.276   504.276 
     Ross 905            :   506.955   506.955 
     Tring               :   407.471   407.471 
     insert

New: NLT 50716 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: NLTT 47491 A (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: OT Serpentis (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Polaris (-322.6875,194.59375,-212.4375):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :   424.553   424.553 
     Aulin               :   406.439   406.439 
     Ross 905            :    419.05   419.050 
     Theta Draconis      :   376.224   376.224 
     Tring               :    316.61   316.610 
     insert

New: Rigel (385.75,-360.4375,-682.53125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :    897.35   897.350 
     Aulin               :   889.541   889.541 
     Ross 905            :   869.126   869.126 
     Theta Draconis      :   906.501   906.500 !
     Tring               :   894.864   894.859 !
New: Rigel (385.78125,-360.40625,-682.53125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :    897.35   897.350 
     Aulin               :   889.541   889.541 
     Ross 905            :   869.126   869.126 
     Theta Draconis      :   906.501   906.501 
     Tring               :   894.864   894.864 
     no insert, found 2 coordinates

New: Ross 52 (-8.4375,29.15625,13.3125):
     Rakapila            :     8.908     8.908 
     Bolg                :    12.505    12.505 
     CE Bootis           :     4.382     4.382 
     LHS 2887            :     8.031     8.031 
     Aulin               :    14.572    14.572 
     LHS 411             :     9.008     9.008 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :     8.111 (unknown)
     insert

New: Sagittarius A* (9581.9375,-18776.625,14990.9375):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25877.164 
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.313 
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25892.752 !
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25920.090 !
     Tring               : 25948.393 25948.393 
New: Sagittarius A* (-9089.1875,-22527.875,8911.625):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25885.908 !
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.313 
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25907.248 
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25900.135 
     Tring               : 25948.393 25856.479 !
New: Sagittarius A* (-9089.15625,-22527.875,8911.65625):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25885.907 !
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.313 
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25907.248 
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25900.135 
     Tring               : 25948.393 25856.479 !
New: Sagittarius A* (25.71875,-21.0625,25899.96875):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  : 25877.164 25877.164 
     Aulin               : 25895.313 25895.314 !
     Ross 905            : 25907.248 25907.250 !
     SDSS J1416+1348     : 25888.027 (unknown)
     Theta Draconis      : 25900.135 25900.137 !
     Tring               : 25948.393 25948.395 !
     no insert, found 4 coordinates

New: SDSS J1416+1348 (-0.6875,27.15625,12):
     Ross 52             :     8.111     8.111 
     Arcturus            :     7.617     7.617 
     Chara               :    17.296    17.296 
     Coelrind            :    10.266    10.266 
     Alphard             :   174.753   174.753 
     Sagittarius A*      : 25888.027 (unknown)
     LHS 396             :    13.028 (unknown)
     OT Serpentis        :    12.655 (unknown)
     Veren's Stop        :    15.695 (unknown)
     Marcov's Point      :    25.652 (unknown)
     LP 625-34           :    22.458 (unknown)
     Sol                 :    29.697 (unknown)
     LHS 411             :    14.435    14.535 !
     insert, WARNING: no perfect match 5 <> 6

New: Sol (0,0,0):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :    36.692    36.692 
     Aulin               :    38.453    38.453 
     Hagalaz             :    68.716    68.716 
     Ross 905            :    33.047    33.047 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :    29.697    29.697 
     Theta Draconis      :    68.614    68.614 
     Tring               :   134.574   134.574 
     insert

New: Taran (-42.5,45.46875,-3):
     Ross 1051           :     5.752     5.752 
     LHS 5287            :     7.032     7.032 
     Surya               :    11.207    11.207 
     Demeter             :    17.269    17.269 
     Styx                :    21.724    21.724 
     Theta Draconis      :     7.584     7.584 
     CR Draco            :    10.336    10.336 
     CR Draconis         :     9.489     9.489 
     Rahu                :    17.238    17.238 
     GD 356              :    13.389    13.389 
     Hagalaz             :    16.255    16.255 
     insert

New: TARANIS (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: Veren's Stop (-12.96875,21.96875,20.28125):
     41 Gamma Serpentis  :     4.867     4.867 
     LHS 411             :     2.326     2.326 
     SDSS J1416+1348     :    15.695    15.695 
     insert, WARNING: only 3 references

New: WREDGUIA AT-0 B47-1 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: WREDGUIA XH-! B46-1 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

New: WREGOE QA-Q B46-6 (unknown): not enough data
     no insert, found 0 coordinates

Thanks for the hard work. Have you compared it with the 3D coordinates calculated by other commanders? Are they the same? Might I ask why you have rounded it to 3 decimals?

 

[wolverine2710]

Bought a Hauler and a better FS drive. Now have a jump range of 19.04 LY. Have flown to dziban, nltt 44050 and LHS 6354 and have inserted the numbers in the spreadsheet using the form created by iirc Codec. I've taken the reference stars suggested out by Chromatix. Which are Sol, Flousop, Tring, Rahu, Parcae, Hepa, Poqomathi, Hyperion and Aulin.

Perhaps someone can calculate the system coordinates for dziban, nltt 44050 and LHS 6354. After that I can ask kfsone of Trade Dangerous to put them into his database. Or someone else can make a fork of TD and insert them in that fork.

Edit: Will try to visit more systems today but first I've some catching up to wrt the FD forums and my threads.

 

[Snuble]

FD posted xls coord where all 1/32.

 

[wolverine2710]

FD posted xls coord where all 1/32.

Not totally sure what you mean with your post. I did read about the 1/32 here but still not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[Athan]

Not totally sure what you mean with your post. I did read about the 1/32 here but still not sure what you are trying to say.

I presume it was offering an explanation for rounding figures to 3dp.

Really, if this 1/32nd of a ly thing is intrinsic to how ED does co-ordinates, we should be multiplying up by 32, doing integer math, and then dividing back down. Or being very sure that the FP format used has enough precision to not lose anything at the 1/32 level (which likely means holding things to at least 1/64 to allow for rounding errors).

 

[wolverine2710]

I presume it was offering an explanation for rounding figures to 3dp.

Really, if this 1/32nd of a ly thing is intrinsic to how ED does co-ordinates, we should be multiplying up by 32, doing integer math, and then dividing back down. Or being very sure that the FP format used has enough precision to not lose anything at the 1/32 level (which likely means holding things to at least 1/64 to allow for rounding errors).

I reread this thread and searched for 1/32 which I did find I'm not finding an explanation for it. Can you perhaps give some examples which show that 1/32 thing in the data supplied by Michael Brookes?

 

[wolverine2710]

I want to thank all commanders for their input and especial those who created programs for calculating the system coordinates. I think we have reached the point to take this to a new level. This thread contains a lot of information but for new volunteers its a bit hard to find the spreadsheet and what reference points are needed. So I want to create a new thread called something like: "Volunteers need for a crowd sourding effort to get the SB2 star coordinates".
Its purpose is to tell volunteers how they should take distances, where to enter those numbers (spreadsheet codec) what systems are already calculated. The last point is important. Atm Trade Dangerous contains 322 star sytems coordinates but I've noticed that a few coordinates of codec's spreadsheet are not in TD yet. I will try to figure out what systems have 3D coordinates and post it here. Or perhaps this can be included in the codec's spreadsheet. Can't edit it atm.

This thread can then be used to discuss what method of triangular calculation is the best. I've at least seen 4 programs.

What do you all think?

 

[Athan]

I reread this thread and searched for 1/32 which I did find I'm not finding an explanation for it. Can you perhaps give some examples which show that 1/32 thing in the data supplied by Michael Brookes?

I didn't do that work, but let's look at a few examples.

The spreadsheet has Coquenchis at -62.78125 23.09375 -36.4375.

0.78125 * 32 = 25, and indeed 25/32 = 0.78125
0.9375 * 32 = 20, and indeed 30/32 = 0.9375
0.4375 * 32 = 14, and indeed 14/32 = 0.4375

Throwing in extra columns to do "ABS(B2 - TRUNC(B2, 0)) * 32" (and equivalent for Y/Z) on all rows then scrolling through I can see it's all integers.

 

[wolverine2710]

I didn't do that work, but let's look at a few examples.

The spreadsheet has Coquenchis at -62.78125 23.09375 -36.4375.

0.78125 * 32 = 25, and indeed 25/32 = 0.78125
0.9375 * 32 = 20, and indeed 30/32 = 0.9375
0.4375 * 32 = 14, and indeed 14/32 = 0.4375

Throwing in extra columns to do "ABS(B2 - TRUNC(B2, 0)) * 32" (and equivalent for Y/Z) on all rows then scrolling through I can see it's all integers.

Thanks for the explanation. How on earth have commanders found that ;-)
I've noticed a commander who created a triangulation program already has taken that into account. But I don't know why he is taking it into account. Brain can't compute it but perhaps its better not to try to understand it completely....