What I've learned about griefers/gankers across the board.

[IndigoWyrd]

Nah man, no strawman. I called it pretty darn accurately, no matter how you want to look at it or how Indigo wants to straddle the fence or "reel it in." He's the one comparing ED griefers and gankers to real life mass murders and serial killers in this thread and suggesting that real world damage should be inflicted upon them and you are the one cheering him on. Just own it, man. No need to dissemble.

Calling you out there. Never made or inferred any such thing. And my comparison, which you've so misconstrued and misrepresented, is only that of thought processes, not of resultants. Not once did I say "Hitting someone at random on the street is the same thing as blowing up a virtual spacecraft." If you think you read that somewhere, I urge you to quote it back and highlight it. Nor did I say any real world damage should be inflicted on anyone as a result of their actions in a game. Again, if you think you read that, I urge you to quote it back and highlight it.

I did say I felt no sympathy for the buffoon who thought it was a good idea to go around punching people at random on the street for getting shot and subsequently jailed. That, to me, is simply justice in action. From that position I will not budge - and you rather agreed with that sentiment as well:

[...]
To be clear: the people who engage in a game of "knock em out" as it was represented in the video you posted (walking up behind random pedestrians and slugging them in the head hard enough to knock them down, out and maybe even give them brain injuries or death) do indeed deserve whatever fate befalls them, and if someone pulled that on me I'd respond immediately with lethal force, and the only problem I would have later would be if they survived. [...]

Then let's add to that the last part, shown in red. During my tour of duty it weighed on my mind that I might well have to kill, in defense of myself, my brothers in arms, our facilities, or whatever the situation might require. Fortunately I did not have to, despite our base coming under attack on several occasions. I keep firearms at home, and have a concealed carry permit. I recognize there is sickness in the world, and the potential for dangerous, even deadly situations is around us. I choose to defend myself if I must, and I hope to never have to do so. And while doing so may be fully justified, it would still weigh on me greatly. I'm more concerned that your only problem would be if they survived, not that you had to take such action.

There's no fence for me to straddle here - I simply want to understand motives for actions.

You want to make this into something it's not and turn this into anything but a discussion of what motivates someone to make a particular choice.
Attacking someone unprovoked in a game is a choice a person has to make. There is no mandate in Elite to attack another player. Even power play can be carried out without hostile interactions. And while it may be fun (subjectively) to blow up virtual space ships - and I've blown up my fair share of NPC's for fun, there is still a thought process that goes into this, just as there is a thought process involved in walking down the street to buy a hamburger, to give some change to a homeless person, to yell profanity at someone in your way, or steal a candy bar - or yes, to punch a complete stranger.

 

[Krash]

According to your logic there are serial killers in this forum and now you're telling them where you don't live... serial killers are known to be extremely smart, you know that right?

 

[Bryan K]

When you imply some of the nicest, most helpful people on the forum want to SWAT you it tends to be remembered and held against you. Rightfully so. Own what you say.

Nicest!? NICEST!? What the hell are you talking about? I’ve only seen hostility from you guys directed at anyone who doesn’t like PvP. You insult us, berate us, and belittle our opinions day in and day out. You pursue us in-game, and put us on hit-lists. Where is the niceness in that?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Calling you out there. Never made or inferred any such thing. And my comparison, which you've so misconstrued and misrepresented, is only that of thought processes, not of resultants. Not once did I say "Hitting someone at random on the street is the same thing as blowing up a virtual spacecraft." If you think you read that somewhere, I urge you to quote it back and highlight it. Nor did I say any real world damage should be inflicted on anyone as a result of their actions in a game. Again, if you think you read that, I urge you to quote it back and highlight it.

I did say I felt no sympathy for the buffoon who thought it was a good idea to go around punching people at random on the street for getting shot and subsequently jailed. That, to me, is simply justice in action. From that position I will not budge - and you rather agreed with that sentiment as well:



Then let's add to that the last part, shown in red. During my tour of duty it weighed on my mind that I might well have to kill, in defense of myself, my brothers in arms, our facilities, or whatever the situation might require. Fortunately I did not have to, despite our base coming under attack on several occasions. I keep firearms at home, and have a concealed carry permit. I recognize there is sickness in the world, and the potential for dangerous, even deadly situations is around us. I choose to defend myself if I must, and I hope to never have to do so. And while doing so may be fully justified, it would still weigh on me greatly. I'm more concerned that your only problem would be if they survived, not that you had to take such action.

There's no fence for me to straddle here - I simply want to understand motives for actions.

You want to make this into something it's not and turn this into anything but a discussion of what motivates someone to make a particular choice.
Attacking someone unprovoked in a game is a choice a person has to make. There is no mandate in Elite to attack another player. Even power play can be carried out without hostile interactions. And while it may be fun (subjectively) to blow up virtual space ships - and I've blown up my fair share of NPC's for fun, there is still a thought process that goes into this, just as there is a thought process involved in walking down the street to buy a hamburger, to give some change to a homeless person, to yell profanity at someone in your way, or steal a candy bar - or yes, to punch a complete stranger.

Blah blah blahhhh, hedge all you want.
This is still baloney:

. These are, I suspect, the same sort of people who think “The Knock Out Game” is either a game or funny. It’s not.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Nicest!? NICEST!? What the hell are you talking about? I’ve only seen hostility from you guys directed at anyone who doesn’t like PvP. You insult us, berate us, and belittle our opinions day in and day out. You pursue us in-game, and put us on hit-lists. Where is the niceness in that?

I’m taking about Jason, specifically. Not the PvP Community in general. Yes, we have plenty of jerks there too.

Slow down. Read more carefully. We’re not actually out to get you - but silly stuff like ‘he’s gonna SWAT me’ will absolutely get smacked down.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Nicest!? NICEST!? What the hell are you talking about? I’ve only seen hostility from you guys directed at anyone who doesn’t like PvP. You insult us, berate us, and belittle our opinions day in and day out. You pursue us in-game, and put us on hit-lists. Where is the niceness in that?

Jasonbarron has been nothing but kind to me.
He's been generous with his time and knowledge, and has never said an unthoughtful word.

You guys are equating playing a video game with the knockout game.


Some high horse!

 

[Ironwolf]

I think that we all play computer games for various reasons, we have our own expectations.
Our own expectations can differ from others expectations.

 

[Bryan K]

I’m taking about Jason, specifically. Not the PvP Community in general. Yes, we have plenty of jerks there too.

Slow down. Read more carefully. We’re not actually out to get you - but silly stuff like ‘he’s gonna SWAT me’ will absolutely get smacked down.

Okay, I see now that I’ve made a grievous error and made a harsh character misjudgement. That was crossing a line.

Jason, I sincerely apologize. I’m sure you’re a great guy, we just don’t see eye to eye too often around here. Perhaps that’s a failing on my part.

I think I’ll bow out here. I’ve managed to make enough of a donkey of myself as it is.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

the knockout game.

Just from what I’ve been able to pick up reading this thread that seems like a ridiculously stupid thing!

EDIT: And after a quick Google search... wow.

 

[jasonbarron]

A Secret Agent diagnosing a psychological issue? I got nothing.

But, you should rise above such nonsense. Aren't you the one who jumps up when someone insults a PvP guy?

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but you don't have all the facts; usually when I opine on various insults getting slanged around on the forum, it's always with the clear understanding that it's limited to the forum. This exchange jumped those boundaries and galloped out into the real world.

 

[Freelancer Knux]

Attacking someone unprovoked in a game is a choice a person has to make. There is no mandate in Elite to attack another player. Even power play can be carried out without hostile interactions. And while it may be fun (subjectively) to blow up virtual space ships - and I've blown up my fair share of NPC's for fun, there is still a thought process that goes into this, just as there is a thought process involved in walking down the street to buy a hamburger, to give some change to a homeless person, to yell profanity at someone in your way, or steal a candy bar - or yes, to punch a complete stranger.

I really feel you're looking too deep into this. Attacking another player shouldn't be looked at as a separate thing from playing the game in general, as it all is simply a source of entertainment. Trying to analyze why a person perfers one part of a game over another is as pointless as trying to identify why they perfer hotdogs over hamburgers. Its all simply personal taste.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Blah blah blahhhh, hedge all you want.
This is still baloney:

Are you saying it is funny or a game? Do you consider this acceptable behavior? Or is there something about asking or suspecting someone who would engage in such real-world behavior might not behave that differently in a virtual environment? Or that the thought processes they use in their every day lives are somehow magically transformed when interacting with 1's and 0's?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Are you saying it is funny or a game? Do you consider this acceptable behavior? Or is there something about asking or suspecting someone who would engage in such real-world behavior might not behave that differently in a virtual environment? Or that the thought processes they use in their every day lives are somehow magically transformed when interacting with 1's and 0's?

Unless you got video of a Elite Dangerous griefer punching someone’s lights out you can just sit down.

Absolutely ridiculous. Shame on you.

 

[Chorda]

I really feel you're looking too deep into this.

Stare too long into the abyss and the abyss will stare into you, turn you into a bag of spiders, a pagan minister, give you a luxury yacht, a sports car, a conceal to carry permit, and also make you into The Equalizer. Just ask Magenta DeVine there.

 

[Mohrgan]

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but you don't have all the facts; usually when I opine on various insults getting slanged around on the forum, it's always with the clear understanding that it's limited to the forum. This exchange jumped those boundaries and galloped out into the real world.

Subjective opinions, and forum text cannot reach the real world. Unless we bring it there, you are helping it jump those boundaries.

You have a grip on things. Don't give that up just because someone else already has.

This isn't a conversation worth having. Let alone allow it to spill the banks, or to lose your perspective.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I really feel you're looking too deep into this. Attacking another player shouldn't be looked at as a separate thing from playing the game in general, as it all is simply a source of entertainment. Trying to analyze why a person perfers one part of a game over another is as pointless as trying to identify why they perfer hotdogs over hamburgers. Its all simply personal taste.

At least someone's advancing and contributing to the actual matter at hand. And analyzing why people do or prefer one thing to another, understanding where those personal tastes come from, that's how we ultimately understand people.

Why is a racist a racist? It could stem from a traumatic experience. It could be a factor of upbringing. It could be a lack of experience or education. Yes, absolutely, I agree, people do have different reasons for different things.

Perhaps someone dislikes hotdogs due to their anatomical similarities. Perhaps because they are made from pink slime. It could be a textural thing (I don't like fish because of the texture). But at the very heart of the matter, there is some underlying reason, even if the person their self does not realize it.

I don't care for PvP play. I'm not an openly confrontational person, despite the fact I'll gladly debate pretty much anything with anyone at any time. I like to debate. It's mental exercise. I don't mind that other people do enjoy PvP play either, or that someone does not like to debate. That's fine. I also know that not everyone who engages in PvP play is "some sort of mental case" either. PvP games are quite popular after all, and yes, they can be a healthy outlet for our frustrations and even anger in a non-destructive manner - IF, and this is one big IF, it is not taken too far.

Familiar with the concept of the "sore winner"? Ever see or hear someone victorious tell an opponent "you suck"? Or make use of animations in games to "rub someone's nose" in their defeat? Happens regularly. So does a "gg" or "well played" - displays of good sportsmanship. What makes someone a "good sport" or a "poor sport"? Again, the reasons are as varied as people themselves.

But there's nothing wrong with trying to understand it either.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Are you saying it is funny or a game? Do you consider this acceptable behavior? Or is there something about asking or suspecting someone who would engage in such real-world behavior might not behave that differently in a virtual environment? Or that the thought processes they use in their every day lives are somehow magically transformed when interacting with 1's and 0's?

I am saying what you "suspect" is baloney.

Attacking people for no reason in Elite IS acceptable behavior, if for no other reason than simply because the devs said so, explicitly.
On the other hand, the knockout game IS battery and illegal, and arguably murder in some cases.
So no I don't think that is funny or acceptable, and I see no evidence that those people are in the same groups.

I suggest people who have a hard time discerning the difference, like yourself apparently, are probably far more likely to be violent.
It's irrational, and so are they.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Stare too long into the abyss and the abyss will stare into you, turn you into a bag of spiders, a pagan minister, give you a luxury yacht, a sports car, a conceal to carry permit, and also make you into The Equalizer. Just ask Magenta DeVine there.

I don't fear to look into the abyss, or to have it look back at me.

"The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge." - Carl Jung.

 

[Mohrgan]

There is a saying about students of psychology. "After the first year of study they know just enough to be dangerous." They never say whom may be in that danger.

Everyone should just go back to complaining about combat logging.

 

[Freelancer Knux]

At least someone's advancing and contributing to the actual matter at hand. And analyzing why people do or prefer one thing to another, understanding where those personal tastes come from, that's how we ultimately understand people.

Why is a racist a racist? It could stem from a traumatic experience. It could be a factor of upbringing. It could be a lack of experience or education. Yes, absolutely, I agree, people do have different reasons for different things.

Perhaps someone dislikes hotdogs due to their anatomical similarities. Perhaps because they are made from pink slime. It could be a textural thing (I don't like fish because of the texture). But at the very heart of the matter, there is some underlying reason, even if the person their self does not realize it.

I don't care for PvP play. I'm not an openly confrontational person, despite the fact I'll gladly debate pretty much anything with anyone at any time. I like to debate. It's mental exercise. I don't mind that other people do enjoy PvP play either, or that someone does not like to debate. That's fine. I also know that not everyone who engages in PvP play is "some sort of mental case" either. PvP games are quite popular after all, and yes, they can be a healthy outlet for our frustrations and even anger in a non-destructive manner - IF, and this is one big IF, it is not taken too far.

Familiar with the concept of the "sore winner"? Ever see or hear someone victorious tell an opponent "you suck"? Or make use of animations in games to "rub someone's nose" in their defeat? Happens regularly. So does a "gg" or "well played" - displays of good sportsmanship. What makes someone a "good sport" or a "poor sport"? Again, the reasons are as varied as people themselves.

But there's nothing wrong with trying to understand it either.

I see your point on understanding I just don't see how someone plays a video game has any bering on their personality.

Personally I have zero issues attacking other players for no reason and have done so multiple times. Back tracking to the original OP though Im certainly not a child or going to school, just another delightful psychopath in game that may wing up and play together with or send you to the rebuy screen.