What would happen if the Clipper was 100tons lighter?

100 tonne reduction on the clipper? Not going to make much of a difference, I flew one exclusively for quite a while on rare circuits

This man speaks the truth. Taking 100 tons off clipper doesn't really solve anything. It'd be even faster, and still have fairly low jump range, because it's less to do with hull mass alone, so much as the hull mass versus FSD size ratio. Which for Anaconda, makes it pretty much broken compared to actually anything at all.

Essentially; frontier introduced a bit of a golden goose, have gone on to fundamentally change how ships are built and spec'd, and then not bothered to address the outlier, because the protest would be too much. That this then creates basically a fairly biased outcome, isn't something the developer particularly cares about.

Imperial Explorer could be that medium ship with great jump range, but hysterically the original wasn't very good range wise (and I tend to think the Cutter is Frontier's take on the Imp Explorer anyway).
 
What effect would this have on shields and jump range and so forth? I know it would be even more ungodly fast than it is now. But can anybody show me actual numbers? I have no idea how to work this out.

Minimal. Issue isn't hull mass (alone); it's hull mass vs FSD class. There's essentially a ratio that means as weight is reduced, range considerably increases. The hull mass versus FSD class for Anaconda is a little, uh, broken compared to actually anything else. It's the only ship around 400t that has a class 6 FSD, everything else has class 5 or lower, until you get to type-9 and above, which is massively heavier.

That ratio becomes highly evident, the less extra mass is added. Which is why DBX, although better on paper at highest potential jump range, doesn't have the same usable ratio when like-for-like modules are fitted. Anaconda is 400t hull mass, vs class 6 FSD. So to match the ratio, either clipper would need to have a class 6 FSD, with the same hull mass; or half the hull mass (200t) to match the existing class 5 FSD for a similar ratio.

However, at 400/6 versus 200/5, the anaconda will be still have better jump range potential, because only half as much mass can be added to clipper for the same range. At least, I believe this is the case, assuming the base multiplier for Anaconda and Clipper is the same in that scenario.

So, it would take something as extreme as the Orca change; virtually halving the hull mass, to get the FSD class vs hull mass in the same ballpark as Anaconda. 100t would be interesting, but a fairly pointless change imho as it's somewhere a little below Asp (which is a medium). Would make more sense to just drop a class 6 FSD in it. But then we'd have endless circular arguments that combat ships shouldn't be able to jump more than 10ly at a time and so on and so forth.

On a slightly unrelated and lighter note (geddit?!) if you reduce hull mass, I have less mass to shoulder charge with, and I am not sure that's a good change. ;)

But I think the entire thing sort of highlights how inconsistent jump potential across the entire fleet of ships has become; and that a fairly disproportionally large number of ships have quite low FSD ratio vs hull mass. To be fair, I think Frontier have probably added a lot more 'long range' content than perhaps was originally expected. Particularly in the light of 'long range' missions, and the location of the many legged thargoids.

So FSD potential has become far more relevant than it might have otherwise been. Things have changed. I'm hoping at some point, they'll do a bit of a pass over every ship to make sure there's a more consistent range, and that ships are still able to do today, or tomorrow, what they did months ago without being unduly compromised due to mechanics changes. Which some, arguably, now are.

Frontier shouldn't be terrified of periodic, minor shifts to ship stats as the game matures. A few tons here, ratio shift there, small tweak to capacity or whatever maintains a reasonably consistent outcome across the fleet. They tend to favour dramatic change, and this is where things tend to get unstuck, causing a bit of a ruckus. I tend to think smaller, incremental changes to ship stats would create a lot less aberrations, and would ensure things like Anaconda don't happen again, yet still keep the remaining fleet relevant.
 
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Minimal. Issue isn't hull mass (alone); it's hull total mass vs FSD class.

FSD and Thrusters are based on the total mass of a ship. This is why Jump Range and normal space peformance varies as you take on cargo and drops when your cargo hold and fuel tank empty allowing you to make longer trips and better maneuvers.

Shields are the only mechanic that relies on hull mass alone.

I will agree that any performance issues in terms of FSD and Thrusters is more of a Class size mismatch then anything having to do with hull mass.

Shields however is more of a hull mass issue since we CAN choose the size of our shields.
 
FSD and Thrusters are based on the total mass of a ship. This is why Jump Range and normal space peformance varies as you take on cargo and drops when your cargo hold and fuel tank empty allowing you to make longer trips and better maneuvers.

Sure, however I referred to hull mass and FSD class as the base ratio, because this is the easiest point to do a relevant comparison (most ships can fit smaller thrusters so they become an unstable variable to consider) and I've gone on to qualify that actual mass matters, and has more dramatic impact, the lower the hull mass vs FSD gets.

I will agree that any performance issues in terms of FSD and Thrusters is more of a Class size mismatch then anything having to do with hull mass.

And that's the key point; module class vs mass is entirely linear so a lot of the outcomes are predictable. But the original question, what does removing 1/4 of the total mass do to a ship? Not really a huge amount if the mass vs FSD class is (essentially) poor. Yeah, it'll be a bit faster, will handle better (in and out of SC, although both can be artificially impacted, such as type-10's ridiculously inconsistent SC handling, and python's nerfed handling at speed; both examples of the 'hand of frontier') but if something has a small FSD, and is pretty heavy, making it a bit lighter has far less impact, than shifting it's FSD up one class, for example.

I am all for compromises, as long as they are for reasonably consistent reasons; as mentioned above, frontier seem to be highly, highly allergic to consistent principles, like FSD class vs mass. So it's a bit all over the shop.
 
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Good question. Why does the Feds have no small fighter ship? Or a multi-purpse large fit? Why are most of the Fed ships so damn slow with crappy jump ranges?

I agree with you on that as well, I would like for there to be more Federal, Imperial and miscellaneous ships. We are slowly getting more though so I hold out hope that they will continue to release more.
 
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