What would happen if the Clipper was 100tons lighter?

[SAB380]

You are wrong.

The Anaconda needs to be about 200-400 tonnes heavier.

The Corvette is over twice its mass, and the Cutter is also substantially heavier.

The Anaconda is an anomaly in the Large Pad being so goddamned light.

Heck, its 20 tonnes lighter than a T7, and 1/3 the weight of a T-10.

The Anaconda being too light doesn’t make me wrong. It only means that correction also has to happen.
The Python is the real comparison to the Clipper. There is no reason the Python should be lighter, while having better weapons, internal slots, and being able to fit on a medium pad.
The Imperials have the small Courier and the large Cutter. It’s obvious they’re missing the medium ship and which one it should be.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

FD won't nerf the Anaconda by adding mass to it.

There's too many people out exploring to suddenly log in to find you're in a n Anaconda shaped Corvette. Lol

If anything, more ships should be like the Anaconda.
Great range is stripped for light weight. And meh range if bogged down with heavy modules. And anything in between.

The Corvette, FDL, T9, etc are all 'meh' if stripped down for light weight (which in the FDL and Corvettes case, means removing weapons... On a combat ship...lol). And just plain pants if actually outfit then as intended. Lol

Nothing will help the Clipper.
It's cross eyed, and can't land most places, and spends too long flying the wrong way to be of any use. Lol

 

[Zeeman]

Don't attempt to try figuring anything out

It's mostly just handwavium engineering

Yup, a bunch of sliders in the background adjusted as needed. Would have liked for it to be related to mass, but alas...

FD won't nerf the Anaconda by adding mass to it.

There's too many people out exploring to suddenly log in to find you're in a n Anaconda shaped Corvette. Lol

If anything, more ships should be like the Anaconda.
Great range is stripped for light weight. And meh range if bogged down with heavy modules. And anything in between.

The Corvette, FDL, T9, etc are all 'meh' if stripped down for light weight (which in the FDL and Corvettes case, means removing weapons... On a combat ship...lol). And just plain pants if actually outfit then as intended. Lol

Nothing will help the Clipper.
It's cross eyed, and can't land most places, and spends too long flying the wrong way to be of any use. Lol

The Anaconda should have been double the mass, with double FSD one slot larger to compensate, which would have left it pretty much as is.

Z...

 

[Stealthie]

FD won't nerf the Anaconda by adding mass to it.

There's too many people out exploring to suddenly log in to find you're in a n Anaconda shaped Corvette. Lol

Said it before but this could probably be solved simply be giving the Annie's lightweight alloy hull a massive nerf and then giving the upgraded hulls a more realistic weight along with an integrity buff.

Annie with light alloy hull: 400t. Integrity 250
Annie with reinforced alloy hull: 600t. Integrity 600
Annie with Military hull: 800t. Integrity 945

Explorers are fine because they're (probably) all using light alloy hulls.
Anybody who's using the Annie for pew-pew can just fit a mil' hull and accept the hit on range.

Annie is still king of the hill for exploration when used with lightweight hull.
Annie is still king(ish) of the multirole ships with reinforced alloy hull.
Annie is still good for pew-pew with mil. hull.

Everybody's happy. [up]

 

[SAB380]

Said it before but this could probably be solved simply be giving the Annie's lightweight alloy hull a massive nerf and then giving the upgraded hulls a more realistic weight along with an integrity buff.

Annie with light alloy hull: 400t. Integrity 250
Annie with reinforced alloy hull: 600t. Integrity 600
Annie with Military hull: 800t. Integrity 945

Explorers are fine because they're (probably) all using light alloy hulls.
Anybody who's using the Annie for pew-pew can just fit a mil' hull and accept the hit on range.

Annie is still king of the hill for exploration when used with lightweight hull.
Annie is still king(ish) of the multirole ships with reinforced alloy hull.
Annie is still good for pew-pew with mil. hull.

Everybody's happy. [up]

You're an artist and I appreciate your fine work [yesnod]

 

[SAB380]

The Python and Anaconda throw off everything else in the game.

The Clipper needs to be lightened 100lbs, and it’s wings shortened to fit on a medium pad - which would also help the hardpoint placement.

The Python would STILL be a better choice of medium ship but the Clipper would then at least be a fun alternative.

To add to my thoughts.
I think that while doing all of the above, the Clipper should also have its size 6 slot reduced to 5.
It'd be an interesting variation to the Python. You could choose to specialise as a heavy fighter (with the shield in the 7 slot) or as a fast mission runner (using the 7 slot for cargo and a light shield on 5).

 

[GJ51]

And just how many players realize that weight and mass are not interchangeable?

Just a bunch of Slugs

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Flown the Clipper a few times, don't own one, Python is better, as someone else said, medium pads.

FD hasn't shown any recent inclination to modify existing ships, last one was the FDL. Players keep asking, no results.

Maybe someone should sticky a permanent plea for all the modifications desired.

DBX, Asp Scout and T-7 have all been upgraded since the FdL buff.

 

[Morbad]

FD hasn't shown any recent inclination to modify existing ships, last one was the FDL. Players keep asking, no results.

Maybe someone should sticky a permanent plea for all the modifications desired.

The only change I want to ships is the reduction of the FDL and T-7s to their previous state.

The Asp Scout can stay buffed and the Python can stay nerfed though...those were good changes.

Explorers are fine because they're (probably) all using light alloy hulls.

I have an explorer with heavy duty reactive.

Everybody's happy. [up]

Never say everybody.

Someone, and probably quite a few someones, will always not like any proposed change.

 

[JRok]

I like the Clipper and aside from the hardpoint convergence I wouldn't change a thing... but it would be nice to see a new ship like a mini-Clipper that could land on medium pads, fast, maneuverable, good jump range, lots of internals, a fair cargo capacity, and a decent armament... you know, a little competition for the ASP-X and DBX... oh and the boost has to sound like the original Clipper... don't think that's too much to ask for.

Thanks Fdev!

 

[acg515]

I have wondered why the Empire doesn't have a medium pad ship. They have one big tank, a decent small fighter and a good all rounder, but you'd think with all the mid sized combat ships that the Feds have that the Empire would have something to compete with the FAS/FGS.

 

[777Driver]

The Anaconda's hull is ridiculous but here to stay, the devs could never change it, just take a look at the player trackers, lots of cmdrs out exploring fringe systems, any changes to hull would screw things up for many explorers out in the black.

I even thought maybe they could fix the hull and upgrade the FSD class, not even that would work. I'd say the majority of anaconda explorers are running modded class 6 FSD's

100 tonne reduction on the clipper? Not going to make much of a difference, I flew one exclusively for quite a while on rare circuits

 

[Adhock]

It'd give you a few more LY in jump range and a little better engine performance in normal space.

As for Shields? The cap on shield effectiveness caps out at a certain point as the hull mass of 400 means the smallest most optimal shield is Class 5.

A class 4 would do the job but the shields wouldn't last long. The Clipper would have drop to under 280 tons on the hull before a Class 4 would provide adequate protection.

A class 6 is all anyone really needs to be combat capable but class 7's to be nigh invincible would explain why Clippers are hard to kill.

 

[Shadowed]

Class has really nothing to do with shield strength. The iCourier and FDL's shield strength is far higher and they have much smaller shields. Always fit the largest class shield to a combat ship. The bigger the class of shield however, the faster Bi Weaves charge. I would never have thought to call the Clipper's shields that great to begin with.

 

[Stealthie]

The Anaconda's hull is ridiculous but here to stay, the devs could never change it, just take a look at the player trackers, lots of cmdrs out exploring fringe systems, any changes to hull would screw things up for many explorers out in the black.

Not if they did what I suggested and simply give the standard hull a massive nerf to it's integrity and then add weight and integrity to the upgraded hulls.

I doubt anybody's out exploring in an Annie with a mil hull.

 

[Adhock]

Class has really nothing to do with shield strength.

Yes it does actually.

Each class is rated for a certain hull tonnage. If a ship's hull tonnage as listed in the outfitting screen exceeds the listed optimal hull tonnage, then a ships shield strength drops.

It will effectively have fewer hitpoints then if the ship had a more optimal shield size.

Think of the shield as a bubble. It has a finite area it can contain. The bigger a ship, the more hull tonnage it has and stretches this bubble. If a ship's tonnage is more then the shield can contain, the shield needs to work harder to maintain it's surface tension and cannot adequately protect the ship. Therefore less shield strength and a weaker shield. It will take fewer hits to pop.

Conversely the opposite is true. If a ship's hull tonnage is less then the optimal shield rating, the bubble compounds on itself creating a denser surface. This in turn adds MORE hitpoints to the shield meaning it takes longer and more shots to pop.

Class 1-8 dictates the size of a module and this in turn for shields dictates the hull tonnage a shield can support.

Shields are not perfect and therefore while they have an optimal rating, they can be adjusted for an error in shield strength. This is the shield rating multiplier.

The multiplier is affected Module rating A-E. With better multipliers at A.

So Class of shield will determine your actual shield strength balanced against your hull tonnage. After which the rating multiplier will kick in giving you the final pool of shield strength you're working with.

Everything in Elite Dangerous regarding modules is a weight and balance act.

Still you are right in the basic idea in that if you are building a combat ship, your should fit the highest class of shield module because it's most likely to exceed your hull tonnage vastly affecting your multiplier and giving you greater shield strength.

Traders and Explorers however may need to balance smaller shields in favor of Jump Distance and Cargo capacity.

 

[Shadowed]

Yes it does actually.

Each class is rated for a certain hull tonnage. If a ship's hull tonnage as listed in the outfitting screen exceeds the listed optimal hull tonnage, then a ships shield strength drops.

It will effectively have fewer hitpoints then if the ship had a more optimal shield size.

Think of the shield as a bubble. It has a finite area it can contain. The bigger a ship, the more hull tonnage it has and stretches this bubble. If a ship's tonnage is more then the shield can contain, the shield needs to work harder to maintain it's surface tension and cannot adequately protect the ship. Therefore less shield strength and a weaker shield. It will take fewer hits to pop.

Conversely the opposite is true. If a ship's hull tonnage is less then the optimal shield rating, the bubble compounds on itself creating a denser surface. This in turn adds MORE hitpoints to the shield meaning it takes longer and more shots to pop.

Class 1-8 dictates the size of a module and this in turn for shields dictates the hull tonnage a shield can support.

Shields are not perfect and therefore while they have an optimal rating, they can be adjusted for an error in shield strength. This is the shield rating multiplier.

The multiplier is affected Module rating A-E. With better multipliers at A.

So Class of shield will determine your actual shield strength balanced against your hull tonnage. After which the rating multiplier will kick in giving you the final pool of shield strength you're working with.

Everything in Elite Dangerous regarding modules is a weight and balance act.

Still you are right in the basic idea in that if you are building a combat ship, your should fit the highest class of shield module because it's most likely to exceed your hull tonnage vastly affecting your multiplier and giving you greater shield strength.

Traders and Explorers however may need to balance smaller shields in favor of Jump Distance and Cargo capacity.

You said: "

A class 6 is all anyone really needs to be combat capable but class 7's to be nigh invincible would explain why Clippers are hard to kill."

Yet Clippers are not hard to kill because their shield strength is crap. The number of class has nothing to do with it, just fitting the largest size to the ship. The same shield on my Corvette is basically 3x stronger than on the Clipper even though the Corvette weighs far, far, far more... ​

 

[Adhock]

The same shield on my Corvette is basically 3x stronger than on the Clipper even though the Corvette weighs far, far, far more...

That's because you're comparing the Clipper, which is the counterpart to the Dropship, to one of the Big Three.

The Cutter is the equivalent to the Corvette.

I will give you props for reminding me that each hull has a base shield strength but that means nothing without a shield generator installed and again, the various weight and balances act of the modules will dictate the amount of shields you actually have and how many shots it takes to pop it.

 

[Starwolfe]

I have wondered why the Empire doesn't have a medium pad ship. They have one big tank, a decent small fighter and a good all rounder, but you'd think with all the mid sized combat ships that the Feds have that the Empire would have something to compete with the FAS/FGS.

Good question. Why does the Feds have no small fighter ship? Or a multi-purpse large fit? Why are most of the Fed ships so damn slow with crappy jump ranges?

 

[Adhock]

Good question. Why does the Feds have no small fighter ship? Or a multi-purpse large fit? Why are most of the Fed ships so damn slow with crappy jump ranges?

I attribute that to the questionable design choice to base the ships around the three professions of Combat, Trade, and Exploration.

Then further designing it to the rather questionable choice around basing balance against Jump Range rather then actually designing ships to fit their intended role as dictated by the flavor text.

All the Fed Ships are Combat designs which have the lowest jump range but the greatest survivability. Mostly because a fully loaded combat ship is so heavy the FSD and Engines can't keep up.

The empire has a mix of multipurpose ships which need to balance against all three professions and so need to balance against Exploration which has the highest jump range of the three and traders falling in the middle.

This in turn leads to the questionable design of why the hell the Farragut alternative of the Federation designed for extended patrols and combat operations where costs and intent would be too expensive to deploy an actual Capital Ship is beaten out both in terms of range and endurance by the Viper 3. A short range interceptor designed for local police work.

We may never know what drove these decisions instead of designing ships to actually fit the role they were intended for.