What's Wrong With Elite.

[DocPossible]

Most of the excitement in that video came from the fact that presenter seemed not to have a clue what he was doing. The only danger his ship was in was from him I think

What I did like was the planetary surface though - it is way beyond what we've got in ED at the moment. The colour changes in 3.0 are nice, but I'd love to see the sort of terrain detail that SC seems to have in ED.

 

[Muetdhiver]

SC is an enlarged version of the freelancer mess.

Massive feature creep, project on the brink of failing. Chris kicked out as an other company takes over and deliver an MVP. IMO the most likely outcome.

Is elite lacking in many regards? Yeah it is. It's a vanilla bruxel sprout ice cream.

It's very much a work in progress with a team learning on the job. They have still massive amount of work to do wrt to delivering theme, colour and narrative content.

Will it end up a great game ? Maybe.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Chris kicked out as an other company takes over and deliver an MVP. IMO the most likely outcome.

I haven't been following the development too closely, is that actually true about Chris Roberts? Do you have a source?

 

[Muetdhiver]

I haven't been following the development too closely, is that actually true about Chris Roberts? Do you have a source?

Am speaking of freelancer which was Chris last game before SC. The parallels are striking TBH. For now Chris is very much in place for SC. That will last till $s run out.

Then...

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Am speaking of freelancer which was Chris last game before SC. The parallels are striking TBH. For now Chris is very much in place for SC. That will last till $s run out.

Then...

Ah ok!

 

[Marshall...]

Jeesus, a minute of playing "Doom3" just to get in the cockpit?

No thanks

My thoughts exactly. For me it added nothing. I play Elite to fly spaceships, not walk around pretty, but bland landscapes.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…, but there's a fundamental issue I can't put my finger on. Hence this thread, and asking for input.

It's not new anymore. The excitement of a new game is gone for players with a few thousand hours in game.

Often commenters write positions about how cool this or that feature would be and how some features are absolutely needed - first person module and atmospheric flight for example.
The problem is, those things won't change the game. They add something new and after a few days, weeks or months that new thing got old and something different new is demanded.

Take a look at the SC video you posted - the streamer acts over excited and astonished (btw, something that streamers like to do to engage more viewers) - but look at the video without sound. If you want you could do an experiment and use the sound and put it onto of a T-9 cargo mission (without re-buy).
The video you posted shows nothing interesting, no gameplay that Elite doesn't offer - it does have more travel and things that are just there as a time sink (walking around).

What you are missing is the excitement of a new game. Something only a new game can offer.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

For me the issue is the extremely low diversity of repetition that makes ED boring. Either features are 100% static or 100% random. Like mining for example. there is no dynamic to it, there is no changing mechanic we can play with. And the worst actvities are very looseley connected to the remaining universe and on top of this extremely unbalanced in it's payout.


I would love if mining had a dynamic feature where following traces of specific materials would lead to a motherload or cluster of specific materials being more dense. or if it even were possible on planets. Then if it also would house features like fining a big load that gets into a temporary static source that lasts one week, and lets say contains 2000t of a high valuable ore, it would make mining MUCH more interesting. because now I have a true POI which I can mine multiple times and make big money, or I can share it with friends.
But right now mining is boring and repetitive and ontop very unrewarding. laods of repetitive microtasks for low reward = not fun.

In evochron mining was even less, a asteroid had infinite material, you flew there you pressed a button, it automined till cargo full and then you sold stuff and repeated. But this process wasn't made annoying by super tiny tasks. Its Jump, align, automine, return. repeat. So it's an enjoyable amount of money for a low level of effort put in. Also the outcome was very predicable.

But In Elite its low reward, loads of microactions and purely random.

I have a favor for mining in games no matter of it's Terraria, Evochron, even in WoW or Empyrion. it also was fun in X. They all differed a bit, yet were fun even if some were reptitive in their task, but they felt not boring and they were rewarding.

ED lacks that. A major factor in the lack of joy is that your personal experience is in absolutely no way improving mining outside figuring a more "mining efficient" build out for your ship. But the pure randomness of how meteoroids work make it impossible to enhance mining by experience.

and about reward, Mining should have a influence on powers and stations you sell your mined materials to. If you are pledged to a superpower you should rank up as well for mining based on the money you make with the results. It should help a superpower owned system to generate more credits for that power by increasing the wealth of that system. While in reverse being a pledged miner for that faction would put you on a target list for other powers. But right now Powerplay is only for people who like to travel form A to B bringing nudes around, or for people pew pewing to steal nudes from other ships. Not even undermining or reinforcing is truly different, it is just a version of delivery from A to B. Thats a lousy implemention for PP.

 

[Blackcompany]

Just play the game (or don't) - maybe a game that leads you by the nose is more your style ?

And out cones the White Knight Playbook.

That didn't take long. Just proves they're grasping at straws to defend the indefensible crap that is Elite game design.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

It's not new anymore. The excitement of a new game is gone for players with a few thousand hours in game.

Often commenters write positions about how cool this or that feature would be and how some features are absolutely needed - first person module and atmospheric flight for example.
The problem is, those things won't change the game. They add something new and after a few days, weeks or months that new thing got old and something different new is demanded.

Take a look at the SC video you posted - the streamer acts over excited and astonished (btw, something that streamers like to do to engage more viewers) - but look at the video without sound. If you want you could do an experiment and use the sound and put it onto of a T-9 cargo mission (without re-buy).
The video you posted shows nothing interesting, no gameplay that Elite doesn't offer - it does have more travel and things that are just there as a time sink (walking around).

What you are missing is the excitement of a new game. Something only a new game can offer.

Totally. I also hate the way streamers massively exaggerate or even fake their reactions. It's even worse when you watch some playing a horror game full of cheap and predictable jump scares and the person is acting like they're in the Blair Witch Project or something.

 

[Captain N]

As a VR user I can confirm that the ability to leave your ship and personally visit the locations you landed at is absolutely not just a time sink that adds nothing to the game. It's hands down one of the best features of ED.

I can only imagine how much better it would be if the transition from cockpit to EVA was seamless and if there was actually something to do there other than looking around and feeling immersed. Just the ability to take screenshots of your avatar while outside your ship has so much potential it's not even funny.

Would it get old eventually? Well yes, probably, just like every other part of the game. Docking with FAOFF and combat still haven't gotten old to me, though, and like these features, walking around would be physical and immersive, and would likely have more... legs than other, less visceral parts of the game.

 

[Whitehair]

Everything is sooner or later "a grind" if done often enough.

How long does it take to earn a big ship in SC without buying it for real money?

Nobody knows as its never been done......

 

[Valorin]

Let me start off by saying I'm a bit of a defender of Frontier and Elite: Dangerous. And I am NOT a backer, player or fan of Star Citizen. To be honest, I have no intention of playing the game, though when it's released and if it's decently optimised, I might give it a whirl. But the other night at 4am or somesuch I came across this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab9q5ZQw20M

It's a guy. Doing a cargo run. That's it. He hauling stuff from A to B. And honestly, it made me relook at our own game and the problems with it. He's just going to A and flying that stuff back to B and it's more exciting than anything I've come across in ED outside of first contact videos last year.

Because there's a sense of tension, an immersion he isn't even aiming for and would probably laugh at me for suggesting he was immersed. But he was, it's in every syllable he speaks.

We lack that, and I think we lack it for a few reasons when doing missions or hauling cargo. Modes are definitely a part of it (and I'm a long-time defender of keeping the modes, I'm not suggesting we pull them, but I am re-examining my ideas on what would happen if we did) and I don't think I could play that tense all the time. Space Legs is another part of it, and I think this video goes some way (to me at least) as to part of what Space Legs brings, even with little extra gameplay. That sense of vulnerability when you leave your space-tank. I think brighter (and more objective) people should look at this and figure what (if anything) we should be looking to learn from it.

Obisidian Ant's video is also part of what this thread is answering. I don't think we'd be in such a rush to earn money if earning it was more fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G0nXeYYUQM&feature=youtu.be

I still love the game (even if I am taking a break from it) but I think some things could be better.

Star Citizen and Elite have pretty different concepts and ideas what the game is about. Both have space ships interstellar travel, but while Star Citizen is centered around a smaller area of inhabited space and thus has a very limited number of celestial bodies, it's not all up to procedural creation. Means, single bodies can be worked on. Same goes for missions I guess. Elite's concept of simulating the whole galaxy makes it highly depending on procedural creation without a chance to go over the results body by body and temper with it. And that's only the game world. Mission creation in Elite is also depending on a lot of factors starting with the economy of a system and what's around it. Same with the gameplay.
That cargo haul you just saw is one endeavor in the game, but there will also be a finite number of stuff you can do, just as in every other game, which means: what's so very exiting and awesome at first is bound to grow boring. First thing I did in Elite was opening the galaxy map and was amazed how it was so similar to the one in Frontier and First Encounters, just much better. I went out to look at stars and planets and whatsnot. It was new and thus exiting (to be honest, it's still exciting for me).
Given Star Citizen will launch successfully and works well, I have no doubt it will be an amazing game. And I will certainly play and enjoy it a lot. I also enjoyed Wing Commander and Freelancer a lot, also played the X games. But in the end I always returned to First Encounters (modded with 3d capabilities and lovely textures), because it felt so much better to not be limited to a smaller region of space, or jumpgates, sectors. It felt more free somehow, and that's exactly why I like Elite so much, and why I think Star Citizen, given it launches successful, won't have such a big impact on the playerbase.
I'll play both, for different reasons.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Everything is sooner or later "a grind" if done often enough.

How long does it take to earn a big ship in SC without buying it for real money?

After 6 years of development and tons of money and multiple studios around the globe they did not put this kind of progression in SC yet so we dont know.

 

[WreckWren]

Agreed 100% with OP

 

[[VR] scipio_77]

I think my most beautiful moment in a space opera game was when playing X3.

I'm hanging out in a system when I suddenly see two of my trade vessels entering through a gate and pirates going on an approach vector. I sped towards it, but before I had time to react a carrier from my reaction force warped into the system and unleashed wings of small fighter aircraft to interdict the pirates, while a rocket cruiser did the same and simply... well... unleashed hell. Meanwhile the trade vessels passed through unharmed.

So basically I just sat there while what I had worked for throughout the game did this wonderful impact on the world around me. That makes the grind (because X3 is very grindy) very meaningful and rewarding.

Now I don't think the organization thing from X3 can ever truly work in a MMO-style game, but that's not my point either. The point is that my progress throughout the game was very meaningful to what happened in the game world. Elite has the foundation for this in its BGS simulation, but I think they could be braver in letting it be a visual and effective thing also in the everyday tasks you perform. And maybe more importantly, have more meaningful missions.. like say you could participate in "minor campaigns" for your faction rather than a narrow set of predetermined missions. And have NPC ships respond to you in more ways than "laser / no laser".

All that said, the main reason I play Elite is for the wonderful galaxy simulation and the sensation of space. This is a very good game for that. The rest is just icing on the cake.

 

[NMS]

+1 with OP.

I Agree.

 

[GunnerBill]

My thoughts exactly. For me it added nothing. I play Elite to fly spaceships, not walk around pretty, but bland landscapes.

Essentially this is why Space Legs has to be really well thought out because I'd do that once then disable the feature.

 

[John Xenir]

Essentially this is why Space Legs has to be really well thought out because I'd do that once then disable the feature.

That right there - the very strong emphasis on creating good content for space legs for the feature to be meaningful - magnifies ED's problems with in-game content.
You know it's true when something as basic as walking around needs new/thought out/fleshed out content to be even remotely justified.

EDIT: To clarify my thought: space legs should be the mechanic, out of which content is born. You should feel the need to walk in order to do something. Like EVA to repair canopy. If you're introducing space legs and then think "Okay, what do we do with it now?", it'll be planet surfaces all over again.

 

[Valorin]

And out cones the White Knight Playbook.

That didn't take long. Just proves they're grasping at straws to defend the indefensible crap that is Elite game design.

And out comes the Troll Playbook.

That didn't take long... Just proves they're taking every opportunity to bash the game they don't seem to like though they are on this forum.

See? Works with other generalized and artificial finger-pointing terms as well.

(also corrected the typo)