What's Wrong With Elite.

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Star Citizen and Elite have pretty different concepts and ideas what the game is about. Both have space ships interstellar travel, but while Star Citizen is centered around a smaller area of inhabited space and thus has a very limited number of celestial bodies, it's not all up to procedural creation. Means, single bodies can be worked on. Same goes for missions I guess. Elite's concept of simulating the whole galaxy makes it highly depending on procedural creation without a chance to go over the results body by body and temper with it. And that's only the game world. Mission creation in Elite is also depending on a lot of factors starting with the economy of a system and what's around it. Same with the gameplay.
That cargo haul you just saw is one endeavor in the game, but there will also be a finite number of stuff you can do, just as in every other game, which means: what's so very exiting and awesome at first is bound to grow boring. First thing I did in Elite was opening the galaxy map and was amazed how it was so similar to the one in Frontier and First Encounters, just much better. I went out to look at stars and planets and whatsnot. It was new and thus exiting (to be honest, it's still exciting for me).
Given Star Citizen will launch successfully and works well, I have no doubt it will be an amazing game. And I will certainly play and enjoy it a lot. I also enjoyed Wing Commander and Freelancer a lot, also played the X games. But in the end I always returned to First Encounters (modded with 3d capabilities and lovely textures), because it felt so much better to not be limited to a smaller region of space, or jumpgates, sectors. It felt more free somehow, and that's exactly why I like Elite so much, and why I think Star Citizen, given it launches successful, won't have such a big impact on the playerbase.
I'll play both, for different reasons.

Whats the point of that bigger universe?

A universe of size 1 with 10 different tasks happening once a week doesn't differ much from a universe size 5 where the same 10 things happen 5x as much within the week. All it does is changing size but not diversity.

So if you make a bigger universe then also make more different tasks to fill it with life and not just repeat the existign ones more often.

Thsi is the core issue of ED, and ontop by rewards 4out of those 10 taska re the same as while 3 of them are just inferior to their payout. Like you know, trading inferior materials, or mining in non pristine non metallic rings. While they are theoritically different they are the same withjust less outcome.

And exactly this si the core issue of ED felt like broing repetition and it is what FD needs to work on and connect these features proper with other ingame aspects and also adjust the reward/(risk+efford) of those tasks. because both features are majorily lacking taking a lot meaning out of what we can do.

yes X3 had that perfect middle ground where effort and reward were great. So scipio_77 is very right here. Ed lacks that, nothing int he universe changes if I cargo 1000 passangers from A to B. except my credit balance at the end of those tasks. Not even the population changes, which it should. Nothing changes if I mine 10.000 water and deliver it to a specific station. The effect is negliable on the BGS. but all that changes is again credits at the end fo the day. hwoever one task takes a lot longer than the other and even pays abyssimal compared to the other. So whats the entire point of doing that? Well the only point would be the "joy" of doing the task, but since those are repetitively boring many drop doing these.

The worst that FD did was utilising engineers to force poeple doing various tasks like exploring and minig now even if they don't want it. Now this destroys just some freedom while not improving these tasks.

Essentially this is why Space Legs has to be really well thought out because I'd do that once then disable the feature.

X rebirth did went a good way, you can walk around the station and do your trade deals, or for a minor fee let it be transported to your ship by using the Interface from your ships bridge. So it doesn't force you walking around.

 

[Jex =TE=]

It's just a usual stream trying to hype SC to be more than what it currently is, a single system collection of cryengine framed levels , severely buggy and slow and perpetually at a pre-alpha state year after year. The illusion is that SC can do this in a large workable scope of ED, when it currently can't be done otherwise ED would already have spacelegs gameplay combined with what we have now with ED 3.0.1 beyond. This promulgated illusion is basically the biggest ponzi ever seen on kickstarter and the crowd funding scene where over 150 million has been wasted or recycled into expensive techdemos and trailer dreams and over a dozen of cig-arrets shell companies around the globe to stuff and funnel cash when the shtf day comes.

www.dereksmart.com

I believe ED will get there to that "immersive" cryengine-glossy look someday (already a great job in seated view now with beyond 3.0.1) in fp & rpg combined with what we have now, but it may take years , a decade or even more.

I think it shows off how much more of a game SC is and how much more exciting it is as it looks like it provides a challenge. Just getting to your ship is more exciting than the same, boring way ED does it. SC is way ahead of ED for game play because they decided to take their time and get it right rather than supply a chain of half built ideas that nobody wanted.

ED won't be here in a decade.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I tend to agree. In Elite I miss the part where you can walk around in your ship, but the rest of the video is merely a guy talking about how dangerous and exciting stuff is, without it being all that dangerous and exciting.

The part you and others are missing is that he's in Open play and could get attacked at anytime and lose everything - that's what makes it exciting - risk v reward.

Put everything you own into your cargo hold and go do a cargo run in open play and see how you get on.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Put everything you own into your cargo hold and go do a cargo run in open play and see how you get on.

You can do that in Elite Dangerous. In a ship that took you hours/weeks to get and if that ship gets destroyed and you don't have the re-buy it is gone.

Exchange the FPS elements of SC with flying around in super-cruise and you got the same gameplay in both games. Simple, very basic going from A to B. In Elite Dangerous you get a bit less straight line flying, in SC you get a bit more walking around the spaceship-dungeon but that's it.

 

[Valorin]

Whats the point of that bigger universe?

A universe of size 1 with 10 different tasks happening once a week doesn't differ much from a universe size 5 where the same 10 things happen 5x as much within the week. All it does is changing size but not diversity.

So if you make a bigger universe then also make more different tasks to fill it with life and not just repeat the existign ones more often.

Thsi is the core issue of ED, and ontop by rewards 4out of those 10 taska re the same as while 3 of them are just inferior to their payout. Like you know, trading inferior materials, or mining in non pristine non metallic rings. While they are theoritically different they are the same withjust less outcome.

And exactly this si the core issue of ED felt like broing repetition and it is what FD needs to work on and connect these features proper with other ingame aspects and also adjust the reward/(risk+efford) of those tasks. because both features are majorily lacking taking a lot meaning out of what we can do.

yes X3 had that perfect middle ground where effort and reward were great. So scipio_77 is very right here. Ed lacks that, nothing int he universe changes if I cargo 1000 passangers from A to B. except my credit balance at the end of those tasks. Not even the population changes, which it should. Nothing changes if I mine 10.000 water and deliver it to a specific station. The effect is negliable on the BGS. but all that changes is again credits at the end fo the day. hwoever one task takes a lot longer than the other and even pays abyssimal compared to the other. So whats the entire point of doing that? Well the only point would be the "joy" of doing the task, but since those are repetitively boring many drop doing these.

The worst that FD did was utilising engineers to force poeple doing various tasks like exploring and minig now even if they don't want it. Now this destroys just some freedom while not improving these tasks.



X rebirth did went a good way, you can walk around the station and do your trade deals, or for a minor fee let it be transported to your ship by using the Interface from your ships bridge. So it doesn't force you walking around.

Yeah, we need more to do in the galaxy. I absolutely agree with that. But there will be more exploration content and hopefully more coming after that. We'll see.
But the galaxy simulation is actually what I love so much about Elite. Also the lore, because we don't have aliens for everything. Like, a trade alien, a war alien, a weird alien. I really don't like that in series, movies or games. I played all the X games and for me the biggest flaw is the jumpgate mechanics and the limited playfields due to that. Well, and the beforementioned aliens for any opportunity. People tell me the background simulation is absolutely awesome in the X games, but that's the part I don't really need in any game.

So yeah, Elite stays my favourite space game. And yeah, I'd love Frontier Dev to give us more ways to interact with the galaxy, which is the most outstanding and appraised feature of the game. Let's hope for future updates to correct that.

 

[Jex =TE=]

You can do that in Elite Dangerous. In a ship that took you hours/weeks to get and if that ship gets destroyed and you don't have the re-buy it is gone.

Exchange the FPS elements of SC with flying around in super-cruise and you got the same gameplay in both games. Simple, very basic going from A to B. In Elite Dangerous you get a bit less straight line flying, in SC you get a bit more walking around the spaceship-dungeon but that's it.

I'm not familiar with SC but in ED there's zero risk because you can always high wake from everything. If SC doesn't have that option it makes it far more risky.

 

[[VR] scipio_77]

I think it shows off how much more of a game SC is and how much more exciting it is as it looks like it provides a challenge. Just getting to your ship is more exciting than the same, boring way ED does it. SC is way ahead of ED for game play because they decided to take their time and get it right rather than supply a chain of half built ideas that nobody wanted.

ED won't be here in a decade.

It isn't a game though, you basically have a bunch of streamers on monstrous gaming rigs so they can run the badly optimized engine, then said streamers fly around pretending it is a game.

If you are talking about ideas and scope, you might have a valid point about excitement - but they will still need to deliver. And there are many of the gaming aspects that aren't good, even if we ignore the bugs. The space combat is very bad, for example. And if you're going to haul cargo repeatedly with your finances at stake, that'll get old quick. And as for the excitement, I'll await my judgment.

 

[Rob At Work]

It has always been said of Elite (and life) that it's all about the journey to and not the arrival at the destination.

My issue is the journey has become monotonous and there are more interesting things out there at the moment (like watching the paint dry )

 

[Hellakitty]

It isn't a game though....

Pretty much this. It's some weirdly stitched together Cryengine levels with janky-asp physics and horrendous networking performance that tanks even the most powerful gaming PC.

I was all for Star Citizen, I loved the idea and got sucked into the marketing. Then when GC2017 happened and saw that they'd made zero progress, in fact even gone backwards, I very nearly got my refund then. When 3.0 was pushed from Evocati to concierge/subs for Christmas that was the final straw, I asked for my money back because they just can't deliver.

 

[Rob At Work]

.... SC is way ahead of ED for game play because they decided to take their time and get it right rather than supply a chain of half built ideas that nobody wanted.

.......

Hahahaha......Quote of the day! ....for emphasis "TAKE THEIR TIME!" - LOL

 

[Blackcompany]

And out comes the Troll Playbook.

That didn't take long... Just proves they're taking every opportunity to bash the game they don't seem to like though they are on this forum.

See? Works with other generalized and artificial finger-pointing terms as well.

(also corrected the typo)

Except I am demonstrably not parroting the exact same line time and again. Which is all you guys ever do with your lame excuses for pathetically bad design.

 

[Blackcompany]

Yeah, we need more to do in the galaxy. I absolutely agree with that. But there will be more exploration content and hopefully more coming after that. We'll see.
But the galaxy simulation is actually what I love so much about Elite. Also the lore, because we don't have aliens for everything. Like, a trade alien, a war alien, a weird alien. I really don't like that in series, movies or games. I played all the X games and for me the biggest flaw is the jumpgate mechanics and the limited playfields due to that. Well, and the beforementioned aliens for any opportunity. People tell me the background simulation is absolutely awesome in the X games, but that's the part I don't really need in any game.

So yeah, Elite stays my favourite space game. And yeah, I'd love Frontier Dev to give us more ways to interact with the galaxy, which is the most outstanding and appraised feature of the game. Let's hope for future updates to correct that.

Except...we have been hearing "let's hope for future corrections" for THREE YEARS now.

Beyond is it. Either they fix it now...this year...or this game is dead in the water.

Because it HAS to grow the player base if it wants to survive. No company is going to continue paying for servers so 5-7k people can play a game now.and then.

 

[Valorin]

Except I am demonstrably not parroting the exact same line time and again. Which is all you guys ever do with your lame excuses for pathetically bad design.

In my opinion all those "White Knight", "Carebear" and whatsnot terms are pretty much generalized Kindergarten stuff. As soon as I spot it in a post I can't take it seriously anymore.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Except...we have been hearing "let's hope for future corrections" for THREE YEARS now.

Beyond is it. Either they fix it now...this year...or this game is dead in the water.

Because it HAS to grow the player base if it wants to survive. No company is going to continue paying for servers so 5-7k people can play a game now.and then.

Why is there so little truth in your posts. In that last 2 weeks on steam there were over 116,000 unique players. Not 5-7k players. Some honesty would be nice.

 

[Jex =TE=]

It isn't a game though, you basically have a bunch of streamers on monstrous gaming rigs so they can run the badly optimized engine, then said streamers fly around pretending it is a game.

If you are talking about ideas and scope, you might have a valid point about excitement - but they will still need to deliver. And there are many of the gaming aspects that aren't good, even if we ignore the bugs. The space combat is very bad, for example. And if you're going to haul cargo repeatedly with your finances at stake, that'll get old quick. And as for the excitement, I'll await my judgment.

Where's your evidence about these streamers? because I think the people that only love ED are making this up to justify their fear that SC is actually a better game - why people feel the need to defend ED over SC is beyond me - I play 5 different games right now. It also shows a very close minded attitude where people are proudly (and weirdly) shouting out that they'll never play SC like it's some sort of higher status of being. No, they're just denying themselves the ability to play another game.

People once said "FDev are taking their time to get it right" well they are clearly not since we have countless examples of half baked products. On the other hand, CRS or whatever he calls his company ARE taking their time to get it right. They have everything ED has and more. Interior designs for ship you can walk around. Landing seemlessly on planets (unlike ED). They have missions with Squadron 42 coming soon, there's already missions to do without SQ42.

That's pretty much all I know about SC as I don't really pay that much attention to it. What I'm interested to know about SC is what is there to do after the missions run out? How can I affect the universe? Will there be anything to discover (in a Star Trek kind of way) because if the game play at the end will be as stale as ED is now then, no thank you!

 

[S3B4ST13N]

ARE you thinking???

Yes.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Why is there so little truth in your posts. In that last 2 weeks on steam there were over 116,000 unique players. Not 5-7k players. Some honesty would be nice.

It doesn't matter how many people are playing - it's how much money they're making from the game that decides whether they continue to develop it, doesn't it?

 

[Blackcompany]

It doesn't matter how many people are playing - it's how much money they're making from the game that decides whether they continue to develop it, doesn't it?

Moreover, concurrent players are all we can factually be sure of. And that number is, for an online game, pretty low, to be honest.

I mean, you're getting handily beaten by the likes of WARFRAME, for crying out loud...that's not saying much for Elite as a mature game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It doesn't matter how many people are playing - it's how much money they're making from the game that decides whether they continue to develop it, doesn't it?

Yep. And we don't reallt know that at the moment. I suppose it all depends on how well the new DLC sells when it comes out. But having a healthy player base will help with the sells I would think. And they seem reasonably healthy at the moment.

Moreover, concurrent players are all we can factually be sure of. And that number is, for an online game, pretty low, to be honest.

I mean, you're getting handily beaten by the likes of WARFRAME, for crying out loud...that's not saying much for Elite as a mature game.

More dishonesty on the bolded part I see.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Lots of things wrong with Elite. I didn't get that immersion feeling from that video (not the least of which was due to the Youtubers incredibly annoying way of speaking; he sounded like he had a bunged up nose and was on the verge of laughing all the time); but I get what you're saying OP.

Personally, I think ED would benefit from Frontier spending substantially more time on doing features right and highly fleshed out the first time round; instead of seemingly rushing every new feature in a mad dash to get new stuff out as fast as possible; releasing content that usually riddled with bugs.

Whilst I don't think space legs will be any kind of grand solution; I know, for me, it'll do a metric ton of good for the game; not the least of which is bring scale and life to the galaxy.

-

Hahahaha......Quote of the day! ....for emphasis "TAKE THEIR TIME!" - LOL

You are aware that game development can take a very long time, right?

If Frontier had the money, and had chosen to follow CIG's development route and release ED with a whole slew of features on par with what SC is hoping to achieve.. Elite would still be in development as well.. you do know that, right?

Final Fantasy 15, for example, was in development for 10 years.

I mean, you're getting handily beaten by the likes of WARFRAME, for crying out loud...that's not saying much for Elite as a mature game.

.. Warframe is awesome.