When did Exploration become 'Get there as fast as you can!!' ???

Quantis Trap

Quantis Trap
Rubbernuke said:
One idea I had a while ago was for a delivery service a bit like the in system NPC rescue guys. You signal for fuel, pick a spot and they deliver to you at a cost.

Refuelling carriers: add option for delivery and rendezvous point

A quick idea based on my life in deepest France with heating oil: Why not in the tritium silo have an option to buy fuel thats delivered to you at a certain point in system or point of your choosing? It would be similar to the fuel rescue NPCs in systems. If another megaship can't be in that...
forums.frontier.co.uk forums.frontier.co.uk
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Too bad pizzas aren't in the commodity list!

By the way, what editing option did you use to include you past thread like you just did?
 

Calteru

Calteru
RE: Delivery of fuel (and a few other ideas I'm seeing) by NPCs --

WHY WOULD YOU CUT THE PLAYERS WITH FCs OUT OF THAT CONTENT?!? You guys do realize that, out of the thousands of FCs about to be bought, at least ONE of us is gonna offer fuel for sale, right?!?

Also: Have you seen NPCs? They're not smart. The combots are by far the most well-developed and (aside from that one glorious week where NPCs had godmode engineering and were INCREDIBLY vicious -- Best. Week. EVER.) very, very bad at their jobs. I mean, sure, FDev could probably get a basic delivery bot working? But I certainly hope it doesn't get held up not docking inches above the landing pad with the load of Tritium y'all bought, seemingly stuck and unable to land, until it gets blowed up.

I guess I'm not gonna be able to run a bordello after all, am I. I guess I'm gonna have to show some of the uninitiated that, in a sandbox, the player initiative is king.

You want fuel delivered? You want those mining-only mats for those 5+ Influence mining missions so you can wreck BGS? I'll be open. And I won't be the only one.

Forget the NPCrutches. Players doing business with PLAYERS. That's what it's all about.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Calteru said:
RE: Delivery of fuel (and a few other ideas I'm seeing) by NPCs --

WHY WOULD YOU CUT THE PLAYERS WITH FCs OUT OF THAT CONTENT?!? You guys do realize that, out of the thousands of FCs about to be bought, at least ONE of us is gonna offer fuel for sale, right?!?

Also: Have you seen NPCs? They're not smart. The combots are by far the most well-developed and (aside from that one glorious week where NPCs had godmode engineering and were INCREDIBLY vicious -- Best. Week. EVER.) very, very bad at their jobs. I mean, sure, FDev could probably get a basic delivery bot working? But I certainly hope it doesn't get held up not docking inches above the landing pad with the load of Tritium y'all bought, seemingly stuck and unable to land, until it gets blowed up.

I guess I'm not gonna be able to run a bordello after all, am I. I guess I'm gonna have to show some of the uninitiated that, in a sandbox, the player initiative is king.

You want fuel delivered? You want those mining-only mats for those 5+ Influence mining missions so you can wreck BGS? I'll be open. And I won't be the only one.

Forget the NPCrutches. Players doing business with PLAYERS. That's what it's all about.
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And I agree- NPC delivery is one alternative to people who don't want to mine. In my ideal world people would sell, steal, mine fuel and it would drive a neat little cycle.
 

Han Zulu

Han Zulu
I think the more important question right now for explorers is, why? Why would you take a carrier on an exploration trip? What would it add that you couldn't live without? Besides being a slow and clunky machinery, does it bring something to the experience that is beyond current mechanics?

I could go trekking with a backpack with 100 lbs of dumbbells, but do I want to? Do I need to? Is there a benefit besides I get a good workout?
 

Quantis Trap

Quantis Trap
Calteru said:
WHY WOULD YOU CUT THE PLAYERS WITH FCs OUT OF THAT CONTENT?!? You guys do realize that, out of the thousands of FCs about to be bought, at least ONE of us is gonna offer fuel for sale, right?!?
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I don't want to deprive a player of a boring job. I want to elevate my fellow player to thing of more interesting jobs while the NPCs do the boring ones. ;)

Calteru said:
Also: Have you seen NPCs? They're not smart. The combots are by far the most well-developed and (aside from that one glorious week where NPCs had godmode engineering and were INCREDIBLY vicious -- Best. Week. EVER.) very, very bad at their jobs. I mean, sure, FDev could probably get a basic delivery bot working? But I certainly hope it doesn't get held up not docking inches above the landing pad with the load of Tritium y'all bought, seemingly stuck and unable to land, until it gets blowed up.
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When it comes to the NPC helping me elevate my game, I don't care how efficient an NPC is at doing it. If the NPC dies, the game will make another to do the job.

Calteru said:
I guess I'm not gonna be able to run a bordello after all, am I. I guess I'm gonna have to show some of the uninitiated that, in a sandbox, the player initiative is king.
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You going to have commanders be workers in your bordello too because that would make this a completely different game! Maybe ... horror genre I'm thinking?
 
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Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Han Zulu said:
I think the more important question right now for explorers is, why? Why would you take a carrier on an exploration trip? What would it add that you couldn't live without? Besides being a slow and clunky machinery, does it bring something to the experience that is beyond current mechanics?

I could go trekking with a backpack with 100 lbs of dumbbells, but do I want to? Do I need to? Is there a benefit besides I get a good workout?
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I think the answer is the one off range and (if FD put it in) UC, with repair being somewhat useful for prangs or PP repair after a toasting.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
CMDR QUANTIS TRAP said:
I don't want to deprive a player of a boring job. I want to elevate my fellow player to thing of more interesting jobs while the NPCs do the boring ones. ;)


When it comes to the NPC helping me elevate my game, I don't care how efficient an NPC is at doing it. If the NPC dies, the game will make another to do the job.
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The other is that ED is partly abstracted. It is entirely possible to have both NPC and player refueling- bubble stuff may be player based, while explorers dial up NPCs. In the bubble I would think stealing fuel (if its costly) would be a thing.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
That was my hope OP. The ability to make big jumps to new regions of space, along with my fleet, go scan planets, perhaps drive around doing surface exploration, perhaps a touch of mining, and who knows, maybe some canyon runs in my Viper or SLF. Maybe meet up with others who have FCs and do some group stuff.

Apparently its not what FD had in mind though, where we will be spending the jump recharge time mining.
 

Han Zulu

Han Zulu
Rubbernuke said:
I think the answer is the one off range and (if FD put it in) UC, with repair being somewhat useful for prangs or PP repair after a toasting.
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PP repair is probably the only thing that you can't do today anyway, so that's one thing, and the range (of course). But is it worth it?

Consider the PP first. If you get down to 0%, I believe you actually can do a reboot/repair in the system panel and get a few % back.

when it comes to jump range, those stars tend to be on the fringe of the galaxy, meaning it'll be a long journey before you can use it for that specific purpose. Besides, boost and neutron jumps get you to many of those places anyway, so it might not be a lot of places you really need it for.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Agony_Aunt said:
That was my hope OP. The ability to make big jumps to new regions of space, along with my fleet, go scan planets, perhaps drive around doing surface exploration, perhaps a touch of mining, and who knows, maybe some canyon runs in my Viper or SLF. Maybe meet up with others who have FCs and do some group stuff.

Apparently its not what FD had in mind though, where we will be spending the jump recharge time mining.
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But you can do all that with FCs, the only issue is how far out you want to go. Looking at the livestream all facilities clock at 5.5K internal space leaving 20K for fuel. Add in a full tank plus whatever you can fit in your own (if not in a wing or using alts) that 22 - 24K H3. Thats 48 jumps with no mining at all (or 24 out and back). If that goes by another FC selling or a station, that can be extended again.
 

Calteru

Calteru
CMDR QUANTIS TRAP said:
I don't want to deprive a player of a boring job. I want to elevate my fellow player to thing of more interesting jobs while the NPCs do the boring ones. ;)


When it comes to the NPC helping me elevate my game, I don't care how efficient an NPC is at doing it. If the NPC dies, the game will make another to do the job.
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o_O

I used to run Nullsec deliveries in a Minmitar stealth freighter. Never failed. My first online game? I was such a great merchant the game writers put an NPC of my character in the game as a shopkeep when I left. While I was there, they built me my own damn store in the middle of the largest town -- just one room east of Medienne Plaza. People have had FAN ART commissioned of their visit to MY store.

I'm sorry you see merchant play as boring. I'm even more sorry you'd choose an NPC over what I and others will be offering. But I'm gonna be out there at HIP 69420 anyway, and if you don't get the bots you want, I'm hoping you won't forget we merchant players exist and LOVE that kind of interaction with others.

NPCs can't cut you the deals I can. NPCs can't interact with you in any way other than to spit out one of a few pre-written lines and HOPEFULLY dock with your purchase.

We can beat them. All we need are players like you to remember us.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Han Zulu said:
PP repair is probably the only thing that you can't do today anyway, so that's one thing, and the range (of course). But is it worth it?

Consider the PP first. If you get down to 0%, I believe you actually can do a reboot/repair in the system panel and get a few % back.

when it comes to jump range, those stars tend to be on the fringe of the galaxy, meaning it'll be a long journey before you can use it for that specific purpose. Besides, boost and neutron jumps get you to many of those places anyway, so it might not be a lot of places you really need it for.
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The whole FC concept is really adding mild perks to what you do. Some tasks have a clear benefit, while others don't or are marginal. I can mess up a systems BGS quite easily without an FC, but it would add a new level of flexibility with management and logistics if I did use one.
 

Han Zulu

Han Zulu
Rubbernuke said:
The whole FC concept is really adding mild perks to what you do. Some tasks have a clear benefit, while others don't or are marginal. I can mess up a systems BGS quite easily without an FC, but it would add a new level of flexibility with management and logistics if I did use one.
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Sure. I'm getting my FC for trading in the bubble, so no issue there, but I'm not sure there's enough, even marginal, benefits for exploration besides being able to bring a bunch of extra ships for extracurricular activities beyond exploration. In other words, the benefit for the explorer is to give a chance to do other things beside exploring.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Han Zulu said:
Sure. I'm getting my FC for trading in the bubble, so no issue there, but I'm not sure there's enough, even marginal, benefits for exploration besides being able to bring a bunch of extra ships for extracurricular activities beyond exploration. In other words, the benefit for the explorer is to give a chance to do other things beside exploring.
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To me thats people not really getting that these things take time to run alone. I said before FD compromised too much and allowed single player access and now its going to haunt them, so now either they will cut running costs and tasks down to single player levels (making them trivial) or make ranges bigger for the same work. It is puzzling why UC was cut though, if that was in then FCs would have more than jump range to offer.
 

Biff Stryker

Biff Stryker
Han Zulu said:
I think the more important question right now for explorers is, why? Why would you take a carrier on an exploration trip? What would it add that you couldn't live without? Besides being a slow and clunky machinery, does it bring something to the experience that is beyond current mechanics?

I could go trekking with a backpack with 100 lbs of dumbbells, but do I want to? Do I need to? Is there a benefit besides I get a good workout?
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I would think unless you are extremely wealthy as an individual explorer, they would be best served with expeditions with multiple CMDRs on board.
With that said, long exploration trips tend to wear on the explorer.. out in the black for so long with no human contact or civilization. After spending a few days out exploring it would be nice sometimes to go "home" instead of a cold lonely planet if your wealth can support it.

I look at it this way, I've hiked, camped, fished and hunted in some pretty remote areas and done it in tents, hammocks and campers. So if the person can afford it, after a week out in the wilderness it is sometimes nice to arrive back to your 45' custom Prevost Coach to take a shower and sleep in. You fire it up in the morning and take it to the next mountain range to explore :)
 
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