Wheres the Tutorial?

I would just like the game to have a tutorial park that has the goals work through to complete something until you have a basic park running with say 4 flat rides, a coaster, 3 shops, toilets, 2 mechanic, 1 janitor, 2 entertainers and having to do some basic terrain sculpting and queue theming.

That way it would show the build and management aspects to the game.

It could for instance walk you through basic placement of a ride, queue line, path and then say now place 3 further rides down. That would let people play. Then go onto making some terrain and then come back to placing a coaster and also showing the fast pass system.

It would be interactive and have clear goals.

The videos should be an option that can play inside the game for those who want to watch. That would cover what is needed I feel.
 
Tutorials will be added.
Theres little point in building comprehensive tutorials when All the mechanics are not yet present in the game.
Wait for at least the next update (or which ever one adds the Security personnel)
 
An interactive turorial to this game are indeed needed.
I let my big brother try out the game today. He haven't played a real Park simulation game since Theme Park World. He have no experience from the RCT series whatsoever. So how would he handle the game? Does the game educate the player while playing along?

Well, my brother handled the game very poorly. All the control manual guides don't says so mush to someone who don't understand from earlier experience from RCT what kind of feature it talks about. He succeed to build roads, but got frustrated fast when trying to do anything advanced without knowing any commands. He also succeed to put in some blueprint buildings and trees in is attempt to create a park.
He made one ride and completely missed to open it. He eventually with my guidance learn how to use the terrain editor and liked to play along with it for a while.

It was very interesting to see the game from his eyes. Nothing was obvious. And I also realise, coming into the game now instead of Alpha 1 as myself. There are just so many option and controls on everything now compared to then. The game looks very complicated.
Reminds me of my older brother.

I remember just surrounding my first burger shop with walls and decoration and a roof was hard the first time. A Tutorial taking the player at the hand and building something in the game would help many players a lot. I watched youtube videos for hours to be able to build anything. My brother still cant build anything good in PxP. And because this game isn't much of a management game, he is bored much more than I am....
 
Tutorials will be added.
Theres little point in building comprehensive tutorials when All the mechanics are not yet present in the game.
Wait for at least the next update (or which ever one adds the Security personnel)
That's all well and good but we're not in Alpha. The game was released without a tutorial, that doesn't really wash for a AAA game.
I can't imagine the struggle new players are having.
 
I had to log out for a few weeks to cool off because some fanboys here just didn't get the fact that some of us having problems or will have problems figuring out how to do different tasks. One person said that only I was making a big deal out of everything. :(
 
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Tutorials will be added.
Theres little point in building comprehensive tutorials when All the mechanics are not yet present in the game.
Wait for at least the next update (or which ever one adds the Security personnel)
As Matty says, the above doesn't really make much sense. There are now over 180k owners of the game and I would guess a fair number are having troubles getting to grasp with the various controls. What may come naturally to some of us won't necessarily to others. Not sure what security has to do with tutorials also especially given it seems there's no plan to add them any time soon. I'm hopeful the in-game tutorials are something they are however looking to add in the not too distant future.
 
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Here are the tutorial videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWGb27faVkpOra_jvHAg_6BXt9otpKHtl

For some reason they are unlisted, so they won't appear when searching on Youtube. Personally I find the Steam Overlay thing annoying and limited, so I open my web browser (Firefox) on my second monitor. Everyone should have a second monitor! [big grin] If you don't, then you'll just need to switch back and forth to the tutorial videos.

Beware of outdated videos on youtube about this game, many are using old techniques no longer relevant, such as how to reduce the grid size by placing column pieces.

And on the subject of "interactive tutorials", I don't see the point of that. They are difficult to make and keep updated. A good youtube video or two is all you need. Then just play... that's how we humans learn best, by doing. So click around the interface, put some building pieces down... and just figure it out. The interface is well designed and user friendly. It's actually of a very high standard when it comes to UI design.
 
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Games used to come with manuals and stuff...




Or with PDF's




Today we get DRM... and unsanctioned user made tutorials

(yes they are helpfull (I learned a lot from several video's about PC) and I'm not ungratefull towards the makers.
Just the lack of comms....)



I'm also not writing a review on Steam untill I have some info about the issues in the game (no manual or documentation is one of those reasons)
 
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^ A printed manual is bad for obvious reasons - it becomes outdated the moment a new version is released.

Same with PDF actually.

Let's embrace the living breathing eco-system that is the continuous deployment / agile / super-cool product methodology, and wing it when it comes to learning how to use it! [big grin]
 
^ A printed manual is bad for obvious reasons - it becomes outdated the moment a new version is released.

Same with PDF actually.

Let's embrace the living breathing eco-system that is the continuous deployment / agile / super-cool product methodology, and wing it when it comes to learning how to use it! [big grin]
Elite Dangerous has a pretty sweet manual that you can download from Frontier's page... PC should also have one there imo...
 
Yep I feel this will come in fairness however it really should have been there for release because it's meant to be the finished article as such with it then updated as new systems and gameplay as it is added. I hope you guys get it for when you are playing :)
 
I think it's safe to say that most of us know that this game wasn't finished. It was rushed to "market" in time for the Christmas buyers and to compete with RCTW, which, is actually no competition, but it was Atari, and we know how Frontier and Atari love each other.

But what is irritating me now is the lack of any updates since release. We had 3 in the one week of beta, which was ridiculous in itself. How much could they actually do in one week?
We have literally heard nothing from the developers regarding plans to change or fix issues that have been raised. So many of us are starting to feel like we've been conned by a typical corporate game company. And let's not kid ourselves, this is no fly by night startup 10 man operation. It is a fully staffed corporation with apparently hundreds of employees, judging from the credits, keeping in mind, that PC is only one game they are working on. So far they have a dozen under their belt.

What the defenders of the company don't seem to realize is that this probably isn't the fault of the developers. Once a game is "finished", many of the people assigned to the project are re-assigned to other projects. We may see updates soon, hopefully, but more likely we'll see paid DLC. After all, the suits know they have a cash cow here and the hardcore fans will pay extra to get the stuff they want.

If I sound cynical, it's because I'm 65 and I've been a gamer since I had an Atari 2600 in 1978. (it was called the VCS back then). I'm also one of the first Americans EVER to play a video game. I played the first electronic table tennis game, (forerunner of Pong) in Okinawa in 1971 while in the Marine Corps. That was one year before Pong even did it's beta testing in California. I'm also a computer expert with an MCSE in Windows NT and 2000. Granted those are old qualifications, but I'm pretty savvy with today's tech as well.
I have well over 500 cds of old games still that I've played and about a hundred or so in Steam so I think i'm qualified to judge a game by now.
I remember a time when you bought a game and it was finished and relatively bug free. Granted, they were primitive by today's standards, but they worked well without patches.
That changed in the early 2000's.

I've seen the evolution of gaming go from "pay one price for a game" to "pay every month for a game" to "free game but if you wan't anything useful, you pay extra for it" to "we'll give you the game, bugs and all, and unfinished" then make you pay to complete it. And all the time people let them get away with it. So why not push the envelope if people are gullible enough to accept it?

I'm am very sure that the developers of the game itself are dedicated people who really want to make the best possible gaming experience for their customers. And if this were 1990, this game probably wouldn't come out till next spring. But it's not 1990. And the corporate mindset today seems to be "so what if it isn't finished, we'll do a few patches, then start doing paid DLC. These suckers will pay thru the nose for new stuff. "

If you don't believe that, look at the new Sims4 expansion. $40 for an xpac. $19.99 for a stuff pack. And people lap it up like dogs at a water bowl.
The fact is that the game is still in beta, despite the release hype. And we paid to test it for them. It remains to be seen if the game will actually live up to the hype.
 
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I think it's safe to say that most of us know that this game wasn't finished. It was rushed to "market" in time for the Christmas buyers and to compete with RCTW, which, is actually no competition, but it was Atari, and we know how Frontier and Atari love each other.

But what is irritating me now is the lack of any updates since release. We had 3 in the one week of beta, which was ridiculous in itself. How much could they actually do in one week?
We have literally heard nothing from the developers regarding plans to change or fix issues that have been raised. So many of us are starting to feel like we've been conned by a typical corporate game company. And let's not kid ourselves, this is no fly by night startup 10 man operation. It is a fully staffed corporation with apparently hundreds of employees, judging from the credits, keeping in mind, that PC is only one game they are working on. So far they have a dozen under their belt.

What the defenders of the company don't seem to realize is that this probably isn't the fault of the developers. Once a game is "finished", many of the people assigned to the project are re-assigned to other projects. We may see updates soon, hopefully, but more likely we'll see paid DLC. After all, the suits know they have a cash cow here and the hardcore fans will pay extra to get the stuff they want.

If I sound cynical, it's because I'm 65 and I've been a gamer since I had an Atari 2600 in 1978. I'm also one of the first Americans EVER to play a video game. I played the first electronic table tennis game, (forerunner of Pong) in Okinawa in 1971 while in the Marine Corps. That was one year before Pong even did it's beta testing in California. I'm also a computer expert with an MCSE in Windows NT and 2000. Granted those are old qualifications, but I'm pretty savvy with today's tech as well.
I have well over 500 cds of old games still that I've played so I think i'm qualified to judge a game by now.
I remember a time when you bought a game and it was finished and relatively bug free. Granted, they were primitive by today's standards, but they worked well without patches.
That changed in the early 2000's.

I've seen the evolution of gaming go from "pay one price for a game" to "pay every month for a game" to "free game but if you wan't anything useful, you pay extra for it" to "we'll give you the game, bugs and all, and unfinished" then make you pay to complete it. And all the time people let them get away with it. So why not push the envelope if people are gullible enough to accept it?

I'm am very sure that the developers of the game itself are dedicated people who really want to make the best possible gaming experience for their customers. And if this were 1990, this game probably wouldn't come out till next spring. But it's not 1990. And the corporate mindset today seems to be "so what if it isn't finished, we'll do a few patches, then start doing paid DLC. These suckers will pay thru the nose for new stuff. "

If you don't believe that, look at the new Sims4 expansion. $40 for an xpac. $19.99 for a stuff pack. And people lap it up like dogs at a water bowl.
The fact is that the game is still in beta, despite the release hype. And we're the chumps who paid to test it for them.

I agree with most of your points. I especially hate DLC "packs". It's just a money grab.

However, Frontier has been doing behind the scenes updates. I usually have the page handy on steam that lists the updates, but I'm sleepy and just starting work. The page is out there though.

In terms of content updates, check out this thread: https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/17308-Planet-Coaster-Holiday-Update

Don't get me wrong though, I agree with you. Your vision of the gaming industry is spot on! I miss the old days where you'd buy complete games. Those days are long gone. :(
 
@Branes51

To be fair we have been told a patch is coming this week by one of the devs for bug/performance related issues and we can see they're making constant build updates on Steam:

https://steamdb.info/app/493340/history

We haven't been 'conned', let's get that straight. Whilst they may have wanted to have more features complete before release they are still hard at work from what I can see from the dev posts. It was also mentioned to us yesterday that a free content update (and who knows what else?) is coming in the next few weeks. Until we know for sure how they plan to do things in terms of expansions/paid DLC let's not get ahead of ourselves and make presumptions on how they plan to fund their development going forward. 200k sales so far is a decent start and I would guess they want to focus on improving the base game for now until the previously mentioned comes into play.
 
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I think it's safe to say that most of us know that this game wasn't finished. It was rushed to "market" in time for the Christmas buyers and to compete with RCTW, which, is actually no competition, but it was Atari, and we know how Frontier and Atari love each other.

But what is irritating me now is the lack of any updates since release. We had 3 in the one week of beta, which was ridiculous in itself. How much could they actually do in one week?
We have literally heard nothing from the developers regarding plans to change or fix issues that have been raised. So many of us are starting to feel like we've been conned by a typical corporate game company. And let's not kid ourselves, this is no fly by night startup 10 man operation. It is a fully staffed corporation with apparently hundreds of employees, judging from the credits, keeping in mind, that PC is only one game they are working on. So far they have a dozen under their belt.

What the defenders of the company don't seem to realize is that this probably isn't the fault of the developers. Once a game is "finished", many of the people assigned to the project are re-assigned to other projects. We may see updates soon, hopefully, but more likely we'll see paid DLC. After all, the suits know they have a cash cow here and the hardcore fans will pay extra to get the stuff they want.

If I sound cynical, it's because I'm 65 and I've been a gamer since I had an Atari 2600 in 1978. (it was called the VCS back then). I'm also one of the first Americans EVER to play a video game. I played the first electronic table tennis game, (forerunner of Pong) in Okinawa in 1971 while in the Marine Corps. That was one year before Pong even did it's beta testing in California. I'm also a computer expert with an MCSE in Windows NT and 2000. Granted those are old qualifications, but I'm pretty savvy with today's tech as well.
I have well over 500 cds of old games still that I've played and about a hundred or so in Steam so I think i'm qualified to judge a game by now.
I remember a time when you bought a game and it was finished and relatively bug free. Granted, they were primitive by today's standards, but they worked well without patches.
That changed in the early 2000's.

I've seen the evolution of gaming go from "pay one price for a game" to "pay every month for a game" to "free game but if you wan't anything useful, you pay extra for it" to "we'll give you the game, bugs and all, and unfinished" then make you pay to complete it. And all the time people let them get away with it. So why not push the envelope if people are gullible enough to accept it?

I'm am very sure that the developers of the game itself are dedicated people who really want to make the best possible gaming experience for their customers. And if this were 1990, this game probably wouldn't come out till next spring. But it's not 1990. And the corporate mindset today seems to be "so what if it isn't finished, we'll do a few patches, then start doing paid DLC. These suckers will pay thru the nose for new stuff. "

If you don't believe that, look at the new Sims4 expansion. $40 for an xpac. $19.99 for a stuff pack. And people lap it up like dogs at a water bowl.
The fact is that the game is still in beta, despite the release hype. And we paid to test it for them. It remains to be seen if the game will actually live up to the hype.
Good post Branes though I disagree with some of it. Glad to see someone remembers the glory days of the Atari 2600 except I was a 7 year old kid when I got that for Christmas. Ahhh the glory days of blowing on cartridges.

Personally I don't think there's an evil corporate mindset with this game. That distinction belongs to Atari for milking a game for everything it's not worth. If Frontier had done the same thing then I think the we are all chumps would be a very accurate statement. Like you I've seen a change in the gaming model. The transition to episodes or paid DLC has never set will with me. If the game is worth it and the DLC content is worth the asking price then I usually don't have issue with buying it but too often these days DLC is for content that should have been included with the core game. And this is where companies see the dollar signs and know that people will lap it up like dogs as you put it. The Sims 4 is a great example. But that is made by EA so there's no big surprise that it's being milked for everything it's worth after the atrocity SimCity was.

As for the Developers rushing this out before the holiday season I can not speculate. The release date was set many months ago before the Alpha was released if I remember correctly. I really think they ran out of time and pushed forward knowing that after the release they could continue to improve and add to it. Nothing that I've seen here gives me any indication that's not going to happen.
 
"Since the festive month of December is soon upon us, we are preparing a special holiday update for you! This free content update will be like an early Christmas present for our beloved community. It's going to be filled with a variety of goodies...."

This is a quote from the Christmas update announcement that was linked in an earlier post.

If this doesn't sound like the company acts like it is doing us a favor by adding new rides, while completely ignoring every technical and design issue raised since release, I don't know what does. They're not fixing anything. or even promising to fix anything. Just what we need, a third ferris wheel. Seriously, do they really think this is something people want? We're trying to make theme parks here, not county fairs. Have you seen a ferris wheel in any Disney park, or Universal or Six Flags, never mind 3 different kinds.
I never said it was evil. I said it was typical of the kind of behavior I've come to expect by game companies. But to expect a company to miss the Christmas buying season because the game isn't completely finished is unrealistic. And of course, as I said, they had to release in order to compete with RCTW. After all, they don't want THEIR customers playing Atari's game while waiting for PC to be released, no matter how bad RCTW might be.

But if they want to give us a treat, how about letting us create our own filters in My Blueprints...or letting us build tracks on paths. Or letting paths cross over each other? Give us a linear transportation system like the skyway thing in RCT3 or at least a turnaround for transport rides so we don't have to circle the entire park perimeter. That, to me, would be a decent update. Make a pathing system that doesn't act like a drunk snake every time I want to connect two paths. Let us put down shops and facilities anywhere, including paths and get rid of the autopathing to shops. It's irritating and restricting. Yes, I know I can hit control to avoid it, but it would make more sense to hit control to create it and let the default be straight.

They may actually be trying to fix things, but this first update announcement doesn't give me a lot of confidence. Having played theme park builders since the original Bullfrog Theme Park game, I guess my expectations are higher than a lot of younger players. And having grown up in an era of DLC and free to play/pay to win games, to them it's business as usual. I'm sure that there are players here than never even played the earlier RCT games so they don't know what is missing in Planet Coaster.

But I do. For a theme park design game there are a few really glaring omissions. Here's just a couple: fences, flowers and flower beds. hedges (not counting the topiaries), more variation in lighting. Two street lamp designs (not counting the skull) is anemic. The inability to copy multiple selected scenery pieces (which we could do in alpha) without having to make it a blueprint. No tables or chairs for a restaurant or cafe. No indication that they will allow people to create and import their own 3d objects. This should have been allowed as early as the alpha, or at least by now. Much more variation in terrain painting. Being only able to paint areas from the terrain you start with is useless. We should have textures that copy the pathing textures to fill in areas which paths seem to miss. One real issue is the inability to rotate or change the orientation of gridded objects (except for the 90 degree movement). I mean, seriously, we can't make a diagonal wall? And I can't join two separate buildings into one. And the choice of which objects are griddable and which aren't seems to have no discernible pattern. One type of column is griddable, another type isn't. There are so many limitations that it can hardly be called a simulation.

The UI is a disaster. The dialogs for management are way too big and are mostly empty space which could be removed easily as one player already demonstrated in another thread a little while ago. They aren't moveable or resizable, which is ridiculous in any application these days. If you want to find a blueprint in My Blueprints, you have to type in the keyword which is not remembered if you close the window. It should at least default to your last search and keep a record of your last 10 searches like a browser does. I warned the developers way back in alpha that custom content management would become unwieldy if there were no user created filters. That is already happening. With thousands of blueprints and cc already on the workshop, it will only get worse. There should also be a favorites filter.

That all said, it is still a beautiful game graphically, and the animations and scenery that we do have is excellent. The coasters look very good as do the flat rides.
And I think the game has a lot of potential, but if they continue to add on content to placate the "gimme new stuff" crowd, the game's issue will never be dealt with. In the words of Yoda, "before add new stuff you do, fix the game first, you should."
 
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