Whine and Cheese Club

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Yep those NPC wing mates and NPC crew were total theory crafting on my part and even as recent as a few months ago the multicrew trailer DEFINITELY did not show the srv deploying in multicrew ;)

I wouldn't know to be honest I try to avoid advertising as much as I can, and I never take literally what I see when I can't avoid it.

Joking aside I would agree with you if we were JUST talking about long term goals like big game hunting on ELWs.... But we are not we are talking about missing escort and protect missions like shown in the very 1st video teaser, a semi believable economy with a sensible BGS, a crime and criminality system where actions have actual consequences. (As well as the above NPCs).

Big game hunting isn't a long term goal DBOBE just thinks it would be cool. There are C&P fixes currently in development, so wait and see on that (and then wait for it to be tested and exploit fixed) and don't take the forum theorycrafting seriously on it.

What we got IS good imo and without doubt I would have kicked in for it to a digital deluxe level.... But it's far from the game we were sold imo and had I of known how many features would be MP only I would not have gone beyond the £80

I bought in once there was a playable demo with a really excellent flight model graphics and sound for an updated version of Elite. That's all I bought and it's what I got. I'm happy with that, everything else is either a bonus or a future possibility.

Advertising/marketing frequently follow their own agenda. You know the most recent terminator film where
John Connor is a terminator and everyone realizes in the hospital to their horror
I only know that because it was in the trailer, I haven't seen the film and I won't bother until it's on telly. There was an interview with the director where he very politely explained that he'd shot the scene as the movie's big reveal and wouldn't have bothered if he knew it was going to be given away by the marketing dept in the films first trailer. Advertising doesn't always help either the product or the customer.

TLDR : Advertising is like tequila you need a big pinch of salt.
 
If we could -Rep people on this forum, there would be a quite a few people with a very negative rep. Lol
Oh there were, believe me. It was something of a badge of honour until it was removed. Now we are all special snowflakes whose reputation can only ever rise, unless a cheeky administrator gets involved and then it can all get very interesting very quickly. ;)

I bought in once there was a playable demo with a really excellent flight model graphics and sound for an updated version of Elite. That's all I bought and it's what I got. I'm happy with that, everything else is either a bonus or a future possibility.
As long as you understand that if it wasn't for people buying into this project long before there was a playable demo, there probably wouldn't have been a playable demo. Not having a go, just pointing out something of which people very easily lose sight. Sadly there aren't as many KS backers as there used to be on these forums, as some gave up on the game completely and left never to return. But there is a hardcore bunch of us with long memories, and that can also be a contributing factor to some of the vintage whine that emerges from the cellar from time to time.
 
I've been playing this game for almost 2 years now.
Appeal to authority as an opening statement

I'm still finding ways to love this game!
Appeal to accomplishment by implying that the rest of us are less than the OP.

First, what's wrong with the game, they are fixing, or at least trying to. Remember that these guys are a "small" company. They aren't EA or Activision where they have thousands of staff slaving away to bring you your AAA+++ super polished over 9000 games. They are making a serious awesome game without that kind of backing.
Given that the company has published that they have a worth in excess of 300 MILLION and that they just had a new building made, the fact that they have a total of three active projects, and the fact that they just published 2.75 MILLION licenses sold for Elite: Dangerous (a larger number than the population of the state of Delaware or Maine by a factor of more than 2), I would be inclined to disagree that they are "small".

As for a comparison between EA and Frontier, this is rather a False Equivelence. EA hires teams as needed, Frontier is a dedicated entity. That is why EA cannot maintain consistency, they do not retain the same team between product because the only permanent employees are administrative, not development. That means that Frontier is actually MORE engaged than EA.

Second, about whining for what we don't have. If I remember correctly, the devs of Frontier have a 10 year/season plan for this game. We can't get it all at once!
Referring to feedback as whining... While the company may, or may not, have a ten year plan, the lack of transparency in laying out parts of it that will not compromise the story line do not encourage an active and generally eager community to patience. Given the lack of communication in that regard, people are providing their own input on what they would like to see.

The fact that Frontier is not generally active in the forums to manage that input means that the community attempts to manage themselves, resulting in a feedback process without controls.

Third, for the ones saying that it's simple to code X and Y... you try coding an entire universe and then say that it is easy.
Another False Equivalence, implying that you have to rewrite the entire code base to make incremental changes. The fact that large parts of the game are procedural means that changing the procedure changes those parts of the game without requiring the developer to actively touch individual elements, aka the "beige plague".

Certainly, coding interactive landscape, even procedurally generated ones, takes time to create, but making changes to extant material is not nearly as involved, and, if the programming is properly modular, means you are working on small segments instead of one entire mass of code.

Honestly guys, I grew up in the day and age of the original Wing Commander, the X-Wing and Tie Fighter series, and compared to what we had back then, this is a dream!!!
An expansion of the same Appeal to Authority that opened the dialog, and even more problematic on several levels.

First, the hardware and the software of the day did not support this level of play. Hand in hand with that is the fact that a lot of the ability of this game is founded in the video hardware, which means that Frontier is not responsible for it.

Secondly, the game's interactivity is founded in internet networking capability, which Frontier had nothing to do with. Certainly, they created their own instancing, but IP is not their animal.

Lastly, throwing the fact that you are "old school" around in a community where many people have played the original game on old hardware, and more have played the games you mention, is not going to get much in the way of wow factor.

Just enjoy the dream guys! Enjoy the dream!
Dreams are not reality, and suppressing requests for improvement does not encourage participation.

Signed,
Someone that went to school with the AppleII
 
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As long as you understand that if it wasn't for people buying into this project long before there was a playable demo, there probably wouldn't have been a playable demo. Not having a go, just pointing out something of which people very easily lose sight. Sadly there aren't as many KS backers as there used to be on these forums, as some gave up on the game completely and left never to return. But there is a hardcore bunch of us with long memories, and that can also be a contributing factor to some of the vintage whine that emerges from the cellar from time to time.

I understand that buying things unseen without firm details frequently leads to disappointment, buying things based on invented theory-crafting is much much worse. If you take a chance on an unseen early purchase you really don't know what you'll get.

Anyway customers on any level are no better and no worse than anyone else. Some pre-ordered some didn't it doesn't matter. We've no authority over anything because we're not investors, not developers, not shareholders, not directors just customers.

What I don't understand is an early pre-order combined with a refusal to accept that things changed, like offlinegate.
 
Repped, TS. It's totally possible to talk about what you want changed in the game without going all negative and bashing it. Actually I think that gets better results usually. People are just negative.
 

Goose4291

Banned
What I don't understand is an early pre-order combined with a refusal to accept that things changed, like offlinegate.

As one of the people who suffered with offline gate, I can relate to the ire.

Someone like me who can go for long periods of time without stable internet due to work (see: where I've just come back from) or other such reasons, might be 'a bit miffed' to have invested money in something based on a key feature that got removed, initially without offer of refund.
 
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As one of the people who suffered with offline gate, I can relate to the ire.

Someone like me who can go for long periods of time without stable internet due to work (see: where I've just come back from) or other such reasons, might be 'a bit miffed' to have invested money in something based on a key feature that got removed, initially without offer of refund.

My home connections awful, almost as bad and unreliable as the power supply. On the bright side I get great views of the night sky, the sea, mountains and forest. Offline was what I bought in for but I accepted the reason FDEV gave for dropping it, ie the BGS would melt your PC unless it was hugely simplified.

A paid jolly to the Caribbean nice, you lucky thing.

When I worked aboard ship I took loads of books and a laptop with UFO terror from the deep on it. Even if you had a connection on-board you'd still not have room for a joystick and such, ED benefits from peripherals.
 
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Honestly guys, I grew up in the day and age of the original Wing Commander, the X-Wing and Tie Fighter series, and compared to what we had back then, this is a dream!!!.
___________.

The funny thing here is, all of the games above had in spades my biggest missing content of elite. NPC wingmen. A new X wing Vs tie fighter game. I would back the hell out of that so long as not just multiplayer arena shooter like the abomination that was star wars battlefront. As for wing commander. That is why I backed star citizen. For S42

_
 
That is why I backed star citizen. For S42

I didn't back SC, something about CR being in complete charge without a publisher on his back set alarm bells off and I took no pleasure in having my prophecy fuilfilled, but his original pitch talking about an updated WC as storyline content, with what is now referred to as 'SC' being an open world that you could drop into at any point and continue to play in after the storyline content was completed (bascally what Freelancer was supposed to be, only about 500 times the size) had me salivating. I'm not one of those players who laments the fact E D doesn't have any recognisable single player story content because I never expected it to have but I do still miss that experience in a space game terribly. If S42 ever does get a proper release and it's not complete dog's eggs I'll still be buying it as I always planned, I just wasn't willing to trust a dreamer with literally no conceptual grasp of the importance of delivery with my money.

A modern X-Wing vs TIE Fighter I would back tomorrow as long as a decent developer with some kind of track record was involved.
 
What I don't understand is an early pre-order combined with a refusal to accept that things changed, like offlinegate.
That's the problem: in many cases it wasn't a pre-order, in which the right of the developer to change features would be in the licence agreement, but rather a crowdfunding pledge governed by the rather vague and historically often unenforceable rules of Kickstarter. It's perhaps a subtle distinction but a distinction nonetheless. At least with offlinegate FD eventually did the decent thing and authorised refunds.

The point remains: without people willing to take a punt on DB's vision in the absence of even a demo, we would probably not have this game. A healthy scepticism has its place when it comes to most things in the commercial world, perhaps especially when pre-ordering something as changeable as software. But crowdfunding has its own rules. If everyone played it as safe as they do with "real" commerce, in many cases there'd be no product.
 
Can someone PM me whether this moderator review is temporary or what I have to do to get rid of this nonsense.

I don't appreciate moderators deciding whether I'm allowed to post content which is not against the rules. This post obviously doesn't need to appear.
 
I generally tend towards positivity, but that doesn't mean that I'm oblivious to the game's faults or deficiencies.

Also, the forum is for people to discuss issues and complaints, not just lavish praise. If all I wanted was moonbeams, magical lollypops and endless revisions of koombaia I'd hang out on the Limit Theory forums. Over there it's all about group hugs and self touching and the developer basically ran off with the Kickstarter money two years ago. That forum is downright creepy, so be careful what you wish for.
 
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That's the problem: in many cases it wasn't a pre-order, in which the right of the developer to change features would be in the licence agreement, but rather a crowdfunding pledge governed by the rather vague and historically often unenforceable rules of Kickstarter. It's perhaps a subtle distinction but a distinction nonetheless. At least with offlinegate FD eventually did the decent thing and authorised refunds.

That's kickstarters for you, only buy released products if you need certainty.

With offline-gate refunds I'm pretty sure they initially only refused them to people who had already played over a certain threshold of hours online, but gave them to people who hadn't. Which makes sense as that detracts from claiming you don't want to play online, more sense than sulking continually for three years or whatever it is now.

The point remains: without people willing to take a punt on DB's vision in the absence of even a demo, we would probably not have this game. A healthy scepticism has its place when it comes to most things in the commercial world, perhaps especially when pre-ordering something as changeable as software. But crowdfunding has its own rules. If everyone played it as safe as they do with "real" commerce, in many cases there'd be no product.

I took a punt by backing an Elite remake, never really gave a monkeys about or paid attention to specific details and still don't really.

I'd quite like working C&P, but can't actually get worked up about it as the modes mean I can opt out. It's still the best game I've ever played.
 
I'm lactose intolerant, and I don't drink alcohol...

This thread needs to be changed to suit me!

Boooooo OP. You smell. Wahhhhhh!

Has the title changed yet?

Dammit I quit, and here's why.....
 

NecoMachina

N
How about if while I'm enjoying what we do have, I point out some things that could be better? Can I do that please? Without getting called a "whiner" all the time? Please?
 
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