Why always complaining?

CMDR DUANES

CMDR DUANES
I play since the first day and I've actually played Elite since the 1984 version. What a change there has been over the years, and trust me, a good one! Odyssey is a massive change, and it had to be published in order to be improved. Do we want to follow the Star Citizen track and wait forever for nothing? I'm sure people would complain exactly the same! Yeah Odyssey has issues and problems, yes I don't understand some changes that are really bad and should be abolished (module storage...) but most of them are simply disturbing because they are new and in a few weeks we will be used to them (galaxy map, IU...) asking: "how did we do before?", yes performance is a real issue but let's be frank: technology evolves really fast and we can't expect to play a game in 2021 with the same config we had when it was launched in 2014, at some point all of us have to upgrade (and fortunately it won't be an issue in just a few years thanks to the remote servers that will enable us to just need a monitor to play any game to its full potential) and Frontier can't be held responsible for that (they can however be for their rubbish recommended config), yes planets look different and often disappointing but the good ones are actually much much better than anything we had before, FPS is not that interesting yep but so what, we are here for the space sim not the FPS, they had to add it because other space games have it, that's all, we can't blame them for keeping pace with the competition. It is an add-on, nobody is forced to use it (I don't). I mean, overall we also have quite a lot of things that are much better than it used to be and I don't see much credit for that. I don't deny the issues but things are not as bad as some Youtubers are saying because they know negativity sells (don't look up toward North Europe......)
 
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Alsteif

A
Or... people just are tired of Frontier releasing bugged updates?
Also - people with 3080 tend to have low fps as well. That... is not equipment which is "bad" now.
Unless Fdev created a dlc, which is "way too good for todays hardware"?

People aren't mad just for the sake of being mad. People are mad, because instead of a polished dlc they paid for, they got... well, Odyssey.
It's not the worst game ever, obviously. But bugs, strange design choices and overall bland amount of features in the game can be a source of anger.
Do notice for example, that we can look for plants, sample plants and get ranks and money from them.
No depth, no skill involved, just a bland feature a lot of people (not all) will forget about in time. Considering Fdev and their track record, i wouldn't be surprised if that is all we will get. I am even worried,that they will leave it as it is and never go back to it, like with multicrew, powerplay, thargoid combat (and many bugs around it), fleet carriers...

Is Odyssey the worst game in existence? No.
Is it a good, fully developed dlc we should have gotten? Also no.

Thus, people are mad.

Ps. do notice, that Fdev has many times mentioned things like:
"Armstrong moment"
"Sphere of combat"
And... do we have that? Not really, no.
 

KRONFROMGALVATRON

KRONFROMGALVATRON
A big part of the issue is the haters are the most vocal minority. Yes there's some well thought out and legit critiques of Odyssey out there. I do believe some aspects of the mechanics could use tweaked like around how the punishment for sneaking missions failure works. Ie it's basically all or nothing. That said, from the numbers of players online or seems a huge number of folks are playing the game, presumably having a good enough time to keep playing, and are not going out on the internet complaining.

I say if you hate it then chill and either get a refund, or just see what the patches bring, file bug reports, post constructive criticism if you like, but stop the endless whining, it's just not productive.
 

hunvagy

hunvagy
CMDR DUANES said:
yes performance is a real issue but let's be frank: technology evolves really fast and we can't expect to play a game in 2021 with the same config we had when it was launched in 2014, at some point all of us have to upgrade (and fortunately it won't be an issue in just a few years thanks to the remote servers that will enable us to just need a monitor to play any game to its full potential)
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Yes, my 2060 is 2014 tech, that's why EDO runs like crap. totally.

Also let me tell you something, I'm beta testing the xcloud right now, it's fun to play a game in your browser, but having no control over it is not. The Stadia failed hard, so I don't think we'll be just having monitors and remote servers anytime soon as mainstream.
 

dannysquid

dannysquid
It was just released too early.

No doubt this is a combo of business reality and Covid consequences, where everybody has less of an idea about the state of the game beyond the bit they're working on.

I think FD should concentrate on the main grievances with the current build rather than telling everybody they hope to get things working by the time the console versions come out. People have paid for the game as a finished game.

But I also don't really like the angry pile-on at the moment either. I worked in games a bit and the worst thing to manage is morale. Once you lose that it's very hard to achieve anything. So it's worth mentioning the great bits as well as the latest "game-breaking" bug.

I'm a big XCOM fan, and I remember when Firaxis announced their reboot I joined the forum there looking for news and there was a guy who was endlessly moaning about the fact they'd changed the way time units worked. This is fair enough (it was a big change) but most people thought Firaxis had done a great job. When XCOM 2 came out four years later I accidentally went back to the XCOM 1 forum rather than the new one. And the same guy was still there moaning about time units. Four years later.

So I think there's a significant number of people who just use game/fan forums as punchbags where they can angrily vent at the world every day.
 

The Nude Wizard

The Nude Wizard
CMDR DUANES said:
we can't expect to play a game in 2021 with the same config we had when it was launched in 2014
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This is why, expecting the line that “everything will run the same, don’t worry” to be a lie I did upgrade, my 3070 rig runs EDO far worse than my 1070 rig runs EDH. Ignoring all the other problems this is “literally unplayable” as far as I’m concerned
 

dawud

D
And let´s not forget, we could not even play the game for the first few days of release
and even Horizon-players, now have (even more) bugs.
Not to mention the fear, the community suffers about the upcomming loss, of all of horizons content.
 

Sic Mundus

Sic Mundus
CMDR DUANES said:
Odyssey is a massive change, and it had to be published in order to be improved.
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Not enough paragraphs. Hard to read. But stopped after this line. The irony of this statement when put into context of the gaming industry as a whole just speaks volumes as to why we're getting games the likes of Cyberpunk, Anthem and Fallout 76 in botched states right out the gate. The complacency in consumers allowing bad practices because it can just be fixed later.

Look dude. If you're fine with being sold an IKEA chair with one slightly shorter leg and praising the wobble as "part of the experience of its eventual potential", that's on you. If I'm gonna get a wrong chair, let it be a different color, not a fundamental flaw in its core design.
 

Erei

Erei
I play since the first day and I've actually played Elite since the 1984 version. What a change there has been over the years, and trust me, a good one!
Click to expand...
Thanks OP, thanks to you I was able to realize than a 2021 videogame is much better than a 1984 one. Lord Braben is a genius to be able to carry the entire gaming industry of the past 37years on his shoulders alone.
Odyssey is a massive change, and it had to be published in order to be improved.
Click to expand...
No. It's called "internal testing". Google it. You can actually improve things without slamming your customers in the face your product. I know, it's ridiculous.
Also, if you want to use your customers to help you, you can do an Alpha (IE: not feature complete and buggy), then a Beta (feature complete and buggy), then, once the bugs are ironed out, you release the game/DLC. Please do note that the Alpha and Beta part are usually free (since customer helps you make a better product after all), and advertised as such.
Modern day game companies also have the opportunity to launch an "early access", which is more or less a paid alpha/beta, but with more communication with the players. Also, advertised as such.

Once you advertise your product as "ready" and "complete", you have the reviews that said product deserves. Not the review for the product it could have been, or the product that was advertised but we didn't get, or the product that maybe will exist in a few month after release.
Do we want to follow the Star Citizen track and wait forever for nothing? I'm sure people would complain exactly the same!
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I mean, according to the roadmap, I'm going to have to wait months for them to actually start working on performances, one of the biggest issue of odyssey.
So, I'm not sure if that's very different than waiting for nothing ?

I stopped reading there, there is only so much nonsense I can absorb in a day.
 

-olli-

O
CMDR DUANES said:
... yes performance is a real issue but let's be frank: technology evolves really fast and we can't expect to play a game in 2021 with the same config we had when it was launched in 2014, at some point all of us have to upgrade (and fortunately it won't be an issue in just a few years thanks to the remote servers that will enable us to just need a monitor to play any game to its full potential) and Frontier can't be held responsible for that (they can however be for their rubbish recommended config),
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You pretty much answered your question (Why always complaining?) strait away. Some people legitimately feel scammed because they took the announced recommended system requirements as a benchmark. I think if you meet those recommened system requirements and Odyssey still runs like crap then there is nothing wrong with blaming Frontier Development for that. So either fix the problems (which Frontier Development is trying to do) or alter the recommended system requirements, which I doubt to be happen simply because it would be borderline false advertisement then.
CMDR DUANES said:
yes planets look different and often disappointing but the good ones are actually much much better than anything we had before, FPS is not that interesting yep but so what, we are here for the space sim not the FPS, they had to add it because other space games have it, that's all, we can't blame them for keeping pace with the competition. It is an add-on, nobody is forced to use it (I don't). I mean, overall we also have quite a lot of things that are much better than it used to be and I don't see much credit for that. I don't deny the issues but things are not as bad as some Youtubers are saying because they know negativity sells (don't look up toward North Europe......)
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Well some people bought Odyssey just because of the FPS part. And apparently it's the hole point of Odyssey since the new planet tech will be implemented in Horizons too (if I am not mistaken).
 

Chaines

Chaines
I praise people that go and make bug repports, but I didn't pay and intended to play the alpha/beta because I don't like to play unfinished game, and I was paid some years ago to beta test and make reports, I won't pay to do it now.
 

{SAS}Stalker

{SAS}Stalker
As above, you ask why people are complaining and then go on to list things that are wrong with ED:O which guess what?

I'll give you a clue, they are what people are complaining about.

2nd best thread of the week.
 

CMDR ZerØ

C
CMDR DUANES said:
I play since the first day and I've actually played Elite since the 1984 version. What a change there has been over the years, and trust me, a good one! Odyssey is a massive change, and it had to be published in order to be improved. Do we want to follow the Star Citizen track and wait forever for nothing? I'm sure people would complain exactly the same! Yeah Odyssey has issues and problems, yes I don't understand some changes that are really bad and should be abolished (module storage...) but most of them are simply disturbing because they are new and in a few weeks we will be used to them (galaxy map, IU...) asking: "how did we do before?", yes performance is a real issue but let's be frank: technology evolves really fast and we can't expect to play a game in 2021 with the same config we had when it was launched in 2014, at some point all of us have to upgrade (and fortunately it won't be an issue in just a few years thanks to the remote servers that will enable us to just need a monitor to play any game to its full potential) and Frontier can't be held responsible for that (they can however be for their rubbish recommended config), yes planets look different and often disappointing but the good ones are actually much much better than anything we had before, FPS is not that interesting yep but so what, we are here for the space sim not the FPS, they had to add it because other space games have it, that's all, we can't blame them for keeping pace with the competition. It is an add-on, nobody is forced to use it (I don't). I mean, overall we also have quite a lot of things that are much better than it used to be and I don't see much credit for that. I don't deny the issues but things are not as bad as some Youtubers are saying because they know negativity sells (don't look up toward North Europe......)
Click to expand...
Yep, definitely had my R9 3900X and 2080S since 2014 :ROFLMAO:

The poor performance is absolutely an issue on FDev's end, but it's one that can be fixed. To respond to some of your other points:

  • FDev have acknowledged that the new UI is pretty bad and will change it. It's not just that it is new, it's that the UX has objectively gotten worse with the update.
  • As I said above, the performance issues are not down to people using hardware from 2014. I know people with the exact same setup as me who get 50-60fps consistently while I struggle to maintain 20 on the ground, the only difference that I run the game in a KVM because I refuse to install Windows on bare metal (haven't actually tried running it in Linux yet, I'll give it a go at some point). I also know people who get 30fps on a 3090/10900k combo.
  • Cloud computing/gaming is already a thing (granted it hasn't seen a huge amount of uptake), but it is not for everyone. For example, I will never move over to it - for one, I trust nobody but myself with my data, and use my computer for a lot of things that are not gaming.
  • I personally don't have a huge issue with the new planetary tech. I would like to see things like the tiled textures and smoothed out ground (farseer base for example) fixed, but I'd rather they focus on things like crash sites appearing all over planets in completely unexplored areas - which I have some faith they will fix, as it's similar to an issue from Horizons.
  • They didn't add space legs just because the competition is doing it, it's been one of the most requested features since the game launched. I agree that the gameplay itself is not super interesting right now, but the base mechanics are solid - despite what a lot of others are saying, the foundations are there and are on par with a lot of other good shooters. I say this as somebody who used to play Counter-strike competitively, and am referring to the base shooting mechanics only, not the extra features that many are complaining are missing.
  • Yes, people need to stop listening to youtubers so much. They're after your clicks over anything else :p

I don't disagree with a lot of your points, but I think a lot of people are seeing this from the perspective of somebody who has played since the original Elite and are somewhat viewing FDev through the good ol' rose-tinted glasses. I'm not saying that FDev are awful, but they absolutely dropped the ball on this release - in no small part because they claimed that they are dropping the seasons approach and releasing this as a full, finished product that they are charging £30 for.

I think both sides of this need to take a bit of a step back and try to see it from the other perspective. The ability to do that seems somewhat rare these days.

Edit: A lot of the replies since I started typing this kinda prove my last point. Just jumping in with fairly aggressive responses rather than attempting to have a conversation on the subject.
 
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