Horizons Why am i losing hull when landing on very low g planets without shelds?

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I'm going to call on this.
http://coriolis.io/outfit/type_6_tr...0303020101.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==?bn=Andromeda III

As you can see, my Type-6 has no shields and I land all the time without losing a single percent in hull integrity.

I can think of 2 reasons why you're taking damage:
1. You're descending with an undesired pitch angle. This results in one of your landing gear bearing the full weight of the ship; hence the damage, because the stress would be too high. I've tested this.
2. As some others are telling you already: you're descending too fast. Let me reiterate - you're descent rate is fast enough to cause damage to the hull, translated through the landing gears.

If you don't have a HOTAS, buy it...anyone on a keyboard and mouse in this game isn't serious about gaming. You wouldn't fly the space shuttle with a keyboard now would you?

Seems that you've missed the videos already posted in the thread, so here is another one to show how inconsistent it is between landing attempts on the same spot, on low G, with analog control:
[video=youtube;TA6K_yJ-7RY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA6K_yJ-7RY[/video]

I'd like to see your landings in the Type-6 too if you can.
 
Seems that you've missed the videos already posted in the thread, so here is another one to show how inconsistent it is between landing attempts on the same spot, on low G, with analog control:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA6K_yJ-7RY

I'd like to see your landings in the Type-6 too if you can.

Yes, I had missed those videos. Thanks for posting it. I'll see what I can do about posting my own. Haven't done so in a long time.
 
Seems that you've missed the videos already posted in the thread, so here is another one to show how inconsistent it is between landing attempts on the same spot, on low G, with analog control:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA6K_yJ-7RY

I'd like to see your landings in the Type-6 too if you can.
I forgot to do landings today, slow going trilaterating all the way but still this is quite helpful

the first few landings you do real nice, but the sequence at the end where you repeat it and get damage if you look when you've settled on the ground your nose is pitched further down so there are several degrees of horizon above the alignment line. When you're coming down on the times it damages you your angle is more shallow and nearer the horizon - that alignment thing is a bit vague, it can be helpful to waggle up and down to see how wide it's sweetspot is and aim for the middle then all your landings might go like the first load fingers crossed
 
Here's a machine built in 1981 (767), slightly larger than the Imperial Eagle & has a max landing weight of 140 tonnes. The landing in the video wouldn't even require an inspection.

How can anyone think it is normal that these titanium beasts in ED receive random damage after a gentle landing? It makes no sense whatsoever. Strut compression on our ships should be soaking up the energy.

[video=youtube;5x85YYLuCY4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x85YYLuCY4[/video]


[video=youtube;3lz96Xi07js]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lz96Xi07js[/video]
 
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Here's a machine built in 1981 (767), slightly larger than the Imperial Eagle & has a max landing weight of 140 tonnes. The landing in the video wouldn't even require an inspection.

How can anyone think it is normal that these titanium beasts in ED receive random damage after a gentle landing? It makes no sense whatsoever. Strut compression on our ships should be soaking up the energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x85YYLuCY4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lz96Xi07js


Um, quite simply because the boeing is moving forward at a reasonable pace, so the forces put in the landing gear are nowhere near as strong as a vertical decent. Drop a Boeing straight down on the runway and see how well the landing gear copes. Do you even basic physics?

Just put a shield on = never taken any damage landing.

Also a Boeing is WAY bigger than an Eagle.
 
Um, quite simply because the boeing is moving forward at a reasonable pace, so the forces put in the landing gear are nowhere near as strong as a vertical decent. Drop a Boeing straight down on the runway and see how well the landing gear copes. Do you even basic physics?

Just put a shield on = never taken any damage landing.

Also a Boeing is WAY bigger than an Eagle.

The mind boggles... Mate, take a look at the A380 landing strut test. I am sure you are also aware that hard landings inspections are done based on vertical and lateral loads, once a G load is exceeded the printer spits out data and the airframe requires an inspection. But hey, what do I know, spent most of my life working with these machines.. Do you want me to start posting data? Completely pointless because it's obvious the devs have misculated.

The entire contact system is simplified in ED, it doesn't factor that you are landing on struts, you can bump into an outpost and get the same results. That is the only point I am trying to make

The Eagle is slightly larger than a A319 or 737 classic, my initial comment is that a 767 is slightly larger than the Eagle. Nothing wrong with that comment.

Imperial Eagle - Length 31.2M, Width 34M, Height 7m

767-300 - Length 48M, Width 5m (fuselage), 47.6 wingspan, Height 5m

Not that any of those dimensions make any difference. It's laughable that anyone can justify damage at a descent rate of a few m/s
 
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Um, quite simply because the boeing is moving forward at a reasonable pace, so the forces put in the landing gear are nowhere near as strong as a vertical decent. Drop a Boeing straight down on the runway and see how well the landing gear copes. Do you even basic physics?

Just put a shield on = never taken any damage landing.

Also a Boeing is WAY bigger than an Eagle.

Take it from someone who has 2000+ hours on FSX with mods to compensate for missing physics characteristics (FSUIPC among others)...the landing gear is a brilliant piece of engineering in that it takes a lot of load ina short amount of time while landing. Pilots make such landings like that of 777Driver's post all the time.

His point is made: these advanced spaceships with far more tolerances in load shouldn't have this recurring damages while landing. This, I now believe, should be at the top of their list. They should bring in the old FSX team if they can figure this one out. :D:cool:

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The mind boggles... Mate, take a look at the A380 landing strut test. I am sure you are also aware that hard landings inspections are done based on vertical and lateral loads, once a G load is exceeded the printer spits out data and the airframe requires an inspection. But hey, what do I know, spent most of my life working with these machines.. Do you want me to start posting data? Completely pointless because it's obvious the devs have misculated.

The entire contact system is simplified in ED, it doesn't factor that you are landing on struts, you can bump into an outpost and get the same results. That is the only point I am trying to make

The Eagle is slightly larger than a A319 or 737 classic, my initial comment is that a 767 is slightly larger than the Eagle. Nothing wrong with that comment.

Imperial Eagle - Length 31.2M, Width 34M, Height 7m

767-300 - Length 48M, Width 5m (fuselage), 47.6 wingspan, Height 5m

Not that any of those dimensions make any difference. It's laughable that anyone can justify damage at a descent rate of a few m/s

I couldn't have said it any clearer.
 
Um, quite simply because the boeing is moving forward at a reasonable pace, so the forces put in the landing gear are nowhere near as strong as a vertical decent. Drop a Boeing straight down on the runway and see how well the landing gear copes. Do you even basic physics?

Just put a shield on = never taken any damage landing.

Also a Boeing is WAY bigger than an Eagle.

Again, "basic physics" tell you what about helicopters ?
 
the fact is they told me they will pass it on for investigation a month ago then deleted my report and post??? also look at all the other bugs, black squares and all that, still not fixed, if they dont do anything this game is going to lose to no mans sky and rightly so

Passing it on for investigation is probably simply they don't know from a design perspective whether its considered a bug or not. They pass it on to the actual devs/designers to review as to whether its a bug or not. If they consider it a bug, then it goes into the pipeline for a fix at some point, depending on the priority/severity.

From what i've noted of dev comments, its not a bug but by design that you take damage if landing without shields. Although maybe its too sensitive and you shouldn't if you make a very careful landing.

FD are hard at work on 2.1, and for the moment there are lots of things that need their attention more than black squares and other minor bugs. In the world of software development you have to prioritize.

As for the comment about NMS, that's really funny. Its a totally different gameplay experience, and no real multiplayer. If someone is getting so upset over minor bugs in ED, they are not going to be happy with the minor bugs that will for sure exist in NMS.

PS: Next time you go exploring, take shields.

PPS: Are you sure they deleted your post? Seems unlikely, they would have no reason to delete your post. The mods might have deleted your post if you had broken some forum rules, for example, abusive or swearing.
 
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The mind boggles... Mate, take a look at the A380 landing strut test.
....
It's laughable that anyone can justify damage at a descent rate of a few m/s
Looks like I'm more on the side of those "laughable"=))) Ok, I can be boring.
The damage "may be" miscalculated, but it must be present.
I continue to look at landing without shield on an unprepared surface as on the case of "emergency" landing. As you have some engines disabled and/or gears broken.
The ratio of successful landing/attempts made on the extraterrestrial body's can be kind of illustration for this.
On the video with landing of the aircraft I clearly saw a damage/degradation of the wheels as part of their mass were vaporized (I dont think that this is exclusively the material and/or occasional water of/on the landing strip). I don't know about "any need of inspection", but most parts of the modern aircraft have a predefined lifetime disregarding their actual state (depends on number of landings, hour of flight, etc) just as the oil in the motor of your car requires to be changed after each NNk km's of mileage. As the landing gear wheels - they are "consumable" items. Also, as I've said earlier, that was the case of aircraft-like landing on a well prepared flat surface (I dont wand to imagine the consequences of the same procedure on an unprepared rocky slope), with all pro and conta.
Also, landing gears of modern aircraft's are supposed to be operational (or at least stay operational) in the vast domain of temperatures and pressures from the point of modern technology, but those domains are really "tiny" comparing to the "reality" of elite universe. Much more requirements to be met resulting in limitations and restrictions on materials that can be used, resulting "jack of all trades" can be in fact very fragile. A can only suppose that "Elite" scientists, having the "shield" technology invested much more effort in that direction than in super-universal landing gears (someone mentioned titanium, while being good in some conditions, in the others circumstances it is rather fragile).

Again, "basic physics" tell you what about helicopters ?
a) first, not a "tiny" helicopter with sled-like gear, but rather one having a dimensions of a 767 and the mass of several dozens tons (at least). All those large have a kind of landing gear with "consumable" parts as mentioned above.
b) in difficult cases (and landing on a not prepared surface is the one of) experienced pilots tend to stay "hovering" to take/discharge any necessary load/cargo if this is possible. The possible damage is not the only reason for this, but... this "terrible" sound of rocks cracking and those rocks visibly catapulting from somewhere beneath the ship - if rocks are cracking, what damage supposed to be done to landing gears?
c) some approximate calculation has been already done somewhere earlier in this thread

As intermediate assumption: while resulting damage may be miscalculated I prefer to stick to normal touchdown speeds of the order of fractions of m/s (i.e 0.1m/s) rather than "few" m/s

btw, on the other side - why the effect of a tigger from winnie the pooh is not so accentuated for ships on low-g planets? I mean at least decaying oscillation as for "jumpy" SRV's behavior mechanics?=))) Ah, "suspension"...

conclusion/solutions/speculations (more of game design ideas), all are imho:
1) some amount of damage to landing gear must be present (may be slightly reduced) in case of not so "accurate" landing without shields.
2) landing without shield on the unprepared surface IS the case of difficult/emergency landing (regarding present state of shield technology)
3) in future, the landing gear can be "separated" from the hull, becoming a separate sub-system (as in fact it is) with it's own damage. At the present state of the in-game mechanics it is not possible - as a ship without landing gear can not dock anywhere at all and there is no way to "repair" it - same as hull damage (assuming necessity to leave your ship to do some repair job of the external components in the open space)
3a) same idea can also introduce some additional content as special "emergency docking at stations/ports" in-game mechanics for te ships with landing gears completely/partially broken. Special Landing Pads/Hangars/Force Fields/Ship Scoop? And may be some special emergency starport services as much as like in nowadays airports "jettison all cargo, burn out excessive fuel, follow given vector - we will catch you - for a fee"-like=)
4) presently reported as a bug the possibility - in some special circumstances - to board an SRV in a "hovering" ship (when your ship cannot find a suitable place to land and stay "hovering" as a result). This can be reintroduced as a brilliant feature along with the opposite - deploying an SRV/jumping out from a hovering ship at a reasonable height. As far I see nothing that contradicts this mechanics at the present state of the game. It's more "realistic", imho. Also while recalling ship a choice for land/hovering modes.

And finally to the topic starter:
Get a courage to say that you simply don't want your ship to take damage as a result of landing "in the wild", don't try to add any reason to this besides yours own wishes, as any reasoning taking into account present "game mechanics" will result in all those endless physics/quasi-physics boring speculations around=)
 
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Try landing out on a flat desert, no rocks around, try it on one of those flat surfaces on an outpost, try it in a small ship on those small private landing pads in small settlements, then try it on a rough rocky surface.. You get the same results.

As mentioned previously, use your ship and gently nudge an outpost or ship with any part of your ship, same results as landing slowly. The contact modeling is non existent for landing, all it cares about is any part of a shieldless ship touching the surface of any other object, it doesn't care that your ship has struts.

Is it a huge deal and should the devs drop everything? of course not, but considering it has become mandatory for explorers to carry shields, the devs should at least take a look at the issue. Damage to a ship on landing should be solely my fault, not down to a simplified damage system.

Guy's, I am generally full of praise for the hard work the devs put in, but in this case they should take a look at placing a basic strut compression model into the game. If they can create entire worlds, I can't see how something like this would be so hard. At the moment our struts may as well be made of balsa wood.

When I look at the landing gear of my T9, flimsy is not a word that springs to mind. Take a look at how the ships drop onto a pad at a station, that's the kind of abuse it should be able to take

wbfcaw.jpg


2j0zcxc.jpg
 
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Looks like I'm more on the side of those "laughable"=))) Ok, I can be boring.

<SNIP>

Why does hovering my cobra 1m above the ground and cutting the thrusters produce a puff of smoke, the sound of an electrical short in my cockpit and 1% damage? Answer: it's a bug.
 
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Try landing out on a flat desert, no rocks around, try it on one of those flat surfaces on an outpost, try it in a small ship on those small private landing pads in small settlements, then try it on a rough rocky surface.. You get the same results.
I promise I'll try sometime. But as said, I don't see even big contradiction in possible mechanics when a shieldless ship must always take some damage on each landing event. I agree that amount of this damage can be reduced compared to present state.

When I look at the landing gear of my T9, flimsy is not a word that springs to mind. Take a look at how the ships drop onto a pad at a station, that's the kind of abuse it should be able to take
And here can be different points of view also. I can describe proposed design of landing gear exactly as being "flimsy". While not at all trying to insult your choice of "exploration" ship (I know that some special builds of T9 can be pretty useful in this domain) I'm starting to doubt if this type of the ship designed to land anywhere except dedicated L-size landing pads. A town-truck and an off-road truck with full drive on all wheels are slightly different concepts. Yes, you can land it anywhere as promised, but I haven't heard any promises about safe landing without shields anywhere you want it to without taking some damage - except above mentioned landing pads. Looking at this image I start to wonder if not only landing gears are in danger, but also ship's hull itself (regarding distance from the bottom to the land level - ride height?).
And regarding - imho, pointless - comparison with landing on special pads. I'm pretty sure that they must be equipped with some special shock-compensating mechanisms going from that natural assumption that while damaging hull of your own ship is on behalf of your own wallet, damaging landing pads is a concern of station's authorities and some preventive measures can be envisaged.
Hmm, may be if landing gear will some time became a separate system from the hull some different "types" can be foreseen for outfitting - "light" with shields and reinforced without (more expensive and weighty -> reducing jump range).
Why does hovering my cobra 1m above the ground and cutting the thrusters produce a puff of smoke, the sound of an electrical short in my cockpit and 1% damage? Answer: it's a bug.
And an AFMU couldn't repair hull. Terrible fact!
Unbeatable argument. And why not? =) Some sounds can be a result of "simulation" for pilot to be aware of surroundings=)
Answer: it's a feature.=)
Ok, I've already listed some arguments answering "why" in the post you cited and earlier. Also proposed some possible solution(s).
Don't want to add more speculation about "physics" side of the problem. Here comes an answer from completely other point of view - "in the name of the game balance".
You want to travel/explore without risk and in comfort, making selfies and so on? Take shield, outfit you ship with AFMU, A-grade thrusters and may be some battle/mining lasers if you want also. Oh, this build is too heavy and jump range is reduced? Never mind, you can always land - without consequences - on a planet and gather materials for some jumponium. Slow/steady - but sure. You pay for your comfort with jump range. Honest. Balance.
Or you want to have the fastest and the most long-range jump ship in the galaxy? Pay for it. Throw away all that is not essentially necessary. Collect jumponium before the beginning of your journey, use it only where is no other solution, reconsider ten times if a landing on a given planet is necessary and not only "for fun", be ready to pay for the risks you have taken.
So once more - answer: it's a feature that can be an essential part of the in-game balance.
 
Passing it on for investigation is probably simply they don't know from a design perspective whether its considered a bug or not. They pass it on to the actual devs/designers to review as to whether its a bug or not. If they consider it a bug, then it goes into the pipeline for a fix at some point, depending on the priority/severity.

From what i've noted of dev comments, its not a bug but by design that you take damage if landing without shields. Although maybe its too sensitive and you shouldn't if you make a very careful landing.

FD are hard at work on 2.1, and for the moment there are lots of things that need their attention more than black squares and other minor bugs. In the world of software development you have to prioritize.

As for the comment about NMS, that's really funny. Its a totally different gameplay experience, and no real multiplayer. If someone is getting so upset over minor bugs in ED, they are not going to be happy with the minor bugs that will for sure exist in NMS.

PS: Next time you go exploring, take shields.

PPS: Are you sure they deleted your post? Seems unlikely, they would have no reason to delete your post. The mods might have deleted your post if you had broken some forum rules, for example, abusive or swearing.
im not sure its still there in my bookmarks but i think its hidden to public.
 
look, i am sorry but i have to disagree that its not a bg, ok so from most peoples point of view, i should take shields, fair point, however when you need a long jump range and afm's in an asp which was nerfed i do not have space for shields, and i am noticing that people think i am some sort of complete newbie and dont realise i have played this on xbox since its release and been on pc since the horizons release, i am pretty sure i can land on planets softly, now lets be honest, i am touching down slower than the apollo 11 rocket in some cases and am still taking damage, i should not be forced this if the game wants realism and its unfair on me when exploring and it basically deters me from landing on planets while exploring which is why i bought horizons, i am sitting at 60 % hull ALL from landing on planets, there was even a planet with 0.03 g's which landing on at less than 1m/s should NOT be causing damage unless my ship is as weak as japans ww2 fighters. i have got a technique and it is quite insulting and naiive hat people just assume that im doing it wrong because im not ok? please fix it as i lover this game and landing on planets but i cant take the risk when im at sag A and need to get back to the bubble.
 
Guy's, I am generally full of praise for the hard work the devs put in, but in this case they should take a look at placing a basic strut compression model into the game. If they can create entire worlds, I can't see how something like this would be so hard. At the moment our struts may as well be made of balsa wood.

When I look at the landing gear of my T9, flimsy is not a word that springs to mind. Take a look at how the ships drop onto a pad at a station, that's the kind of abuse it should be able to take

http://i67.tinypic.com/wbfcaw.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2j0zcxc.jpg

Funny balsa wood comment. But seriously, you've made a very compelling argument here between having a galaxy filled with stellar bodies obeying orbital mechanics and that of struts which visually have at least 3 different dampening/shock absorbing systems on the struts, but without reconciliation of the respective game mechanic itself.

Excellent point you've made.
 
look, i am sorry but i have to disagree that its not a bg
I can only hope that I've got your point. It's a wonderful thing - explore ED universe. But at the same time I have an impression that you have mixed up your proper feelings/wishes of how it must be done along with game mechanics in some kind of a bunch of problems finally arriving to a conclusion that this is a bug. And this is a serious issue.
, ok so from most peoples point of view, i should take shields, fair point, however when you need a long jump range and afm's in an asp which was nerfed i do not have space for shields
Ok, and where is the problem? You can continue to explore as earlier without any need to land on a planet. There is nothing that obliged you to do that besides your own will. Yes, you can land and find materials for "jamponium" - and triple your jum range - but in this case is better to fit a shield. And are you agree with the fact that if you don't land - you don't have any need of shields as it was earlier? And the jump range is not affected in this case?
, and i am noticing that people think i am some sort of complete newbie
Personally never said this. Only can admit that at the same time having 1500+ hours of in-game time I cannot name myself a master of thrusters=) I'm a complete noob.

and dont realise i have played this on xbox since its release and been on pc since the horizons release, i am pretty sure i can land on planets softly, now lets be honest, i am touching down slower than the apollo 11 rocket in some cases and am still taking damage, i should not be forced this if the game wants realism and its unfair on me when exploring and it basically deters me from landing on planets while exploring which is why i bought horizons, i am sitting at 60 % hull ALL from landing on planets, there was even a planet with 0.03 g's which landing on at less than 1m/s should NOT be causing damage unless my ship is as weak as japans ww2 fighters. i have got a technique and it is quite insulting and naiive hat people just assume that im doing it wrong because im not ok? please fix it as i lover this game and landing on planets but i cant take the risk when im at sag A and need to get back to the bubble.
A have an impression that here comes "feelings" part. You are not obliged to land. You can at anytime return to bubble and fit a shield - and I don't believe that it is impossible for an asp pilot - and continue your exploration. Sag*A is far, but not "unimaginable" far away. So what is needed to be fixed?
 
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look no offence to anyone but it really wouldnt be that hard to just add a few lines of code in so that yo dont take damage if you land at low speed and im gonna say its easy because it is its a short and easy fix, and sir i believe that if i paid for horizons i expect to land, one dos not simply rush back to the bubble. come on guys planes can easily survive 1-3m/s landings and they are bigger than the ASP so the logic is flawed, no one can counter act this because its a valid point
 
look no offence to anyone but it really wouldnt be that hard to just add a few lines of code in so that yo dont take damage if you land at low speed and im gonna say its easy because it is its a short and easy fix, and sir i believe that if i paid for horizons i expect to land, one dos not simply rush back to the bubble. come on guys planes can easily survive 1-3m/s landings and they are bigger than the ASP so the logic is flawed, no one can counter act this because its a valid point

I'll submit a bug report in the morning.
 
it doesnt make sense frontier have told me they will investigate this and have not done anything for over a month! surely this is not meant to be when you can land on landing pads without taking damage, no matter how soft i am with my landing i lose hull! this is a problem when your at sagittarius A,

due to this, frontier have lost another player until the bugs are fixed


ps. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE BUGS, i dont want any idiots commenting: oh they are working on it blah blah blah, ive seen my post get deleted about this so dont get started, they arent doing anything!

I posted concerning this and was met with a bunch of "get gud" and "stop uzing the formus to complain" and other such mindless drivel. It is real, the landing gear do not function currently, and while there is no official response regarding this issue, FD is very likely aware and incorporating a fix. The Devs simply don't bother communicating very often or very much, but they're listening and they do respond, even if it's on British time (which I believe Gandalf the Grey summarized very nicely).

My advice, eat the jump distance you'll loose with minimum shielding for now and be patient.
 
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