Why build one of the largest game maps in history and refuse to let anyone build anything?

[Ian Doncaster]

ED would need an asset server or something, where players uploaded what they built and downloaded what other players built.
Without this, you stuff would be gone as soon as you left the instance and not return until you did.

This is probably a relatively costly adition to the game.

I don't think this is likely to be the sticking point. The game already has an "asset server" of this sort which puts persistent items into systems (e.g. stations, settlements, megaships). Similarly the P2P networking might mean that you couldn't build one yourself in real-time and have it appear everywhere, but doesn't mean you can't ask for one to be built and then have you and everyone else go to see it later. (You *can* sort of do that with CGs already, after all, it's just that the queue of player-submitted CGs for new stations is really really long)

Reasons I can think of we don't have one yet:

1) Not a massive amount of gameplay for these things to work with yet other than to say "this is mine".

2) Potential for significant changes to exploration if people can drop landable bases across the galaxy, which might not be wanted. Similar potential for BGS problems if people can just go around adding landable bases to inhabited systems. Especially so if these bases have any facilities whatsoever...

3) Interface to construct a base - which would then probably appear at a Thursday server reset - would be quite complex compared with existing ED interfaces, likely requiring major UI reworks.

4) Frontier already busy with the 10 million other priorities of the player base including "fix all the bugs", "add depth to all the existing gameplay", "implement space legs on populated ELWs" and so on.

Also ....isn't this kind of what the "get yourself a megaship" in Squadrons is going to be? It seems a reasonable starting place for it, with fewer issues around points 2 and 3 than more major constructions, especially surface ones, would have.

 

[Ajeler]

There are plenty of building games. I've grown out of lego.

I want to fly! In space!!!

Funny how some people think that if smth is to be implemented into the game it will be mandatory for all players.

 

[verminstar]

Funny how some people think that if smth is to be implemented into the game it will be mandatory for all players.

Thats actually half their argument against...stop syaing things like that...ye know that they wont like it and tell ye if ye dont like how the game doesnt allow it, then go elsewhere. Thats the numero uno number one excuse used to shut an argument down these days ^

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Funny how some people think that if smth is to be implemented into the game it will be mandatory for all players.

It's nothing to do with that, it's to do with (a) the ROI on dev time, and (b) does it fit in with Elite?

 

[GunnerBill]

Well my personal opinion is because Elite games have always been about your CMDR on his own against the galaxy.

Personally I see the attraction of being able to own/build bases/infrastructure but this opens up a door to a lot of things I wouldn't like to see in ED such as guilds, player owned systems, player factions/organisations, large clans etc.

I'm not interested in being denied access to area "x" unless I do "y" for player group "z".

Space is for everyone to enjoy.

 

[Iskariot]

Why build one of the largest game maps in history and refuse to let anyone build anything?

ED is in the middle of development. Who knows what FDev wants to add eventually. We might get the option to create a modest personal base. Braben mentioned he had thought about inflatable bases. So it is on their minds, but perhaps they feel that it is not a priority at this stage.

 

[Kayweg]

To be fair, while i like the idea of proper crafting systems and base building, that was never what i expected to be part of ED, and FD never advertised ED with any such features or promised them for the future.
(And yes, i know some sort of "inflatable base" or some such had loosely been mentioned at some point.)
It's simply not what they have or had in mind for the game, and i knew that all along and accept that.
There are other games for that, both existing and upcoming ones.

 

[Watcher]

Bit of both 1 and 2 I think.

There was always a desire to keep players as relatively small fry in the galaxy. That obviously doesn't sit well with a lot of people so Frontier has a challenge there about how to give people a bit more scope without letting players take over.

On the technical side managing terrain morphing has all sorts of interesting issues, should it be local to a given player or shared in some way? How do you prevent vandalism of notable sites? Should players be able to mess about with each others changes (if they are visible)? Finding a good way of storing and communicating information about changes would also be a challenge I think but perhaps less than the game-play implications. And that is just terrain morphing - adding structures on existing terrain that are player owned has a whole set of similar problems along with further ownership and interaction questions.

I'd quite like to see deformable terrain and so on but I'm not sure we are going to be getting it to be honest.
In terms of building I'm holding out hope that perhaps a certain amount of reputation derived ability to have home bases at stations with some customisation options might happen eventually.

 

[GunnerBill]

ED is in the middle of development. Who knows what FDev wants to add eventually. We might get the option to create a modest personal base. Braben mentioned he had thought about inflatable bases. So it is on their minds, but perhaps they feel that it is not a priority at this stage.

I'd love that but I'm just trying to think how it wouldn't turn into Unreal Tournament? I love games like that but having to defend you base against player attacks seems like an entirely different game to Elite.

I tell you the way I'd think it could be done without descending into chaos:


You don't get to build a base wherever you want, however...

Certain existing bases could have a "for sale" sign on them or "investment needed".

For a fee you could buy into the base and be able to steer the running of the base in certain general directions e.g. from science to mining, invest more in mining, increase defense, improve outfitting.

Your influence would depend on your investment and of course the normal BGS stuff should you choose to cash in data/bounties etc.

The fact that a player is invested at this base should not be indicated outwardly by the game so that any interaction that other players have with the base is either totally coincident or because you personally told them about it.

There could be a mechanic to return dividends to the player if the base is successful or (preferable IMO) all profits should be reinvested into the base in terms of implementation of the goals the player had selected.

A player would also be able to cash out of a base (with a notice period).

 

[verminstar]

To be fair, while i like the idea of proper crafting systems and base building, that was never what i expected to be part of ED, and FD never advertised ED with any such features or promised them for the future.
(And yes, i know some sort of "inflatable base" or some such had loosely been mentioned at some point.)
It's simply not what they have or had in mind for the game, and i knew that all along and accept that.
There are other games for that, both existing and upcoming ones.

This game never used to be multiplayer either and the fact it is means it evolved. We keep hearing that this game has been evolving since the beginning, so I would assume there to be more than a few surprises in store that those from the beginning never imagined possible and possibly never imagined they would see.

Or was absolutely every aspect and mechanic that exists in the game now explained and predicted in the beginning? Games that dont change stagnate...games that evolve beyond what they were originally designed to be flourish...which concept do players support?

 

[clivewil]

I know NMS does it with other players being able to see the bases other people have created, so I see no reason why ED can't do it, but yeah not sure how costly it would be.

there's a bit of a difference between being able to see someone else's creation (with extremely limited interactivity for the visitors) and being able to fly, land, fight, and do all the usual stuff we do at the regular ED bases - there'd be a hell of a lot of network traffic involved, with all the collision detection etc. that ED needs that NMS does not due to its extremely simplistic implementation.

i mean if a network update in NMS was slow, who would care? who would notice even? atm if a player's repliy to you in NMS appeared a couple of seconds later than he sent the message, it would be hard to detect. it certainly wouldn't cause you to crash and burn or lose a fight, because there is none of that in NMS's player-to-player interactions.

in ED on the other hand, any significant lag at all would be disastrous for many of us - and the more complex the players build their bases, the more compounded the problem gets. and experience shows that some guys go REALLY overboard building their bases, and use every possible resource available to them

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

there's a bit of a difference between being able to see someone else's creation (with extremely limited interactivity for the visitors) and being able to fly, land, fight, and do all the usual stuff we do at the regular ED bases - there'd be a hell of a lot of network traffic involved, with all the collision detection etc. that ED needs that NMS does not due to its extremely simplistic implementation.

i mean if a network update in NMS was slow, who would care? who would notice even? atm if a player's repliy to you in NMS appeared a couple of seconds later than he sent the message, it would be hard to detect. it certainly wouldn't cause you to crash and burn or lose a fight, because there is none of that in NMS's player-to-player interactions.

in ED on the other hand, any significant lag at all would be disastrous for many of us - and the more complex the players build their bases, the more compounded the problem gets. and experience shows that some guys go REALLY overboard building their bases, and use every possible resource available to them

There would be no different to what we already have. Also personal bases probably wouldn't have much traffic apart from yourself most of the time. I am not sure I understand your logic here. You are not making much sense. Why would there be a load of fighting around your own small personal base? It wouldn't be part of the BGS or affiliated to any factions. Make them indestructible like current stations or have stupidly strong shields that nobody can get through to protect your own base.

And when I say have your own personal base, I don't mean build it NMS style. I would assume that you would buy ready made modules to add to your base, as this isn't a construction game.

 

[Enderby]

Why bother making it if it can’t be interacted with?

Makes for a nice astronomy prog, but not a good game.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Current settlements are huge and don't cause a network traffic issue and player bases would be tiny in comparison (think of the small NPC outposts on planets) so I doubt there would be such a tremendous amount of additional network traffic that it would become a problem. Surely?

But, in order to control what could become way over-blown if not handled correctly:
1) You can only build within a certain radius of where you place your Habitat (living quarters),
2) Building is modular using pre-fabricated constructs, not free form. Meaning you choose from a variety of different building types and styles instead of building ala NMS-style,
3) Different building types and styles are available for purchase from different stations, a high-tech station will stock only the best and most expensive modules for example,
4) You are limited to the amount of pre-fabs you can carry based on your cargo capacity, pre-fabs weigh a lot so will lower your jump range, until you put down a "pre-fab constructor" module that will help by being able to produce some additional pre-fab types,
4) The amount of modules you can attach to your building is limited so as to control size.

.... I'm getting excited thinking about this. :/

 

[Cosmos]

This is something that's bothered me since I started playing. Why bother to build a galaxy with 400 billion stars and life sized planets if all you can do is look at them? building moon bases or mines on a planets surface seems obvious to me in a game like this. I have several theories about this.

1, They don't want their game to become Eve online. FD are so scared of having certain players become god like, as they do in Eve, so they cap our potential, refuse to let us build anything that could potentially make us too powerful. If this is the case, that's like going to Legoland, but only being allowed to look at the sculptures and ride the teacup ride.

2, They technically can't do it. Having so many people changing the galaxy around on a daily basis would actually cause the game to crash. If this is true, then congrats to FD on painting the prettiest picture of a galaxy in game history.

It is bizarre. Theres no way they can fill the game with interesting stuff but they seem entrenched in avoiding making it a true sandbox.

Why do some posters insist that Frontier must be 'scared' if they're not doing something? They're not letting us build stuff because it doesn't fit in with their vision for Elite at this time. That's all.

Their vision of Elite? Whats that, a never ending grindfest and shallow as a puddle?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Why bother making it if it can’t be interacted with?

Makes for a nice astronomy prog, but not a good game.

Who says you can't interact with it. Ship storage, manage fuel and things like that. Have other types of storage there like materials. Maybe have synthesis so you can create and store ammo there. Maybe have a fabrication plant to create things from natural materials to human-made materials. I see no issues with that.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Who says you can't interact with it. Ship storage, manage fuel and things like that. Have other types of storage there. Maybe have have synthesis so you can create and store ammo there. Maybe have a fabrication plant to create things from natural materials to human-made materials. I see no issues with that.

Not to mention the game-play opportunities for when space-legs drops.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Their vision of Elite? Whats that, a never ending grindfest and shallow as a puddle?

Oh, go play something you enjoy. It's getting tedious now.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Current settlements are huge and don't cause a network traffic issue and player bases would be tiny in comparison (think of the small NPC outposts on planets) so I doubt there would be such a tremendous amount of additional network traffic that it would become a problem. Surely?

But, in order to control what could become way over-blown if not handled correctly:
1) You can only build within a certain radius of where you place your Habitat (living quarters),
2) Building is modular using pre-fabricated constructs, not free form. Meaning you choose from a variety of different building types and styles instead of building ala NMS-style,
3) Different building types and styles are available for purchase from different stations, a high-tech station will stock only the best and most expensive modules for example,
4) You are limited to the amount of pre-fabs you can carry based on your cargo capacity, pre-fabs weigh a lot so will lower your jump range, until you put down a "pre-fab constructor" module that will help by being able to produce some additional pre-fab types,
4) The amount of modules you can attach to your building is limited so as to control size.

.... I'm getting excited thinking about this. :/

Yep, I like the sound of that too. Not too sure why people where talking about band width and network traffic. I really can't see how that would be effected.

Not to mention the game-play opportunities for when space-legs drops.

That too.

 

[sassman]

The Fallout 4 game has the ability to build structures and settlements in certain areas of the open world map. To be honest, apart from shorting up defences and planting farms it got kind of boring.