PvP Why do people grief? Why are they able to?

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Hazzaah

H
Hello Cmdrs,

(Important question at bottom)

I have been playing Elite for about 40 hours now. The last 8hrs of which i have been trying to get long range FSD from Felicia Farseer in Deciat. I arrived in Deciat to find that i needed to find some seemingly rare thing called a Meta-alloy. I was informed by other sources (EDSM) that meta alloys are sold in Maia (400LYs away). So i set off on a quest in my Hauler to Maia, deciding to take my time and scan everything on the way since i know i need to sell exploration data to Farseer in order to get a higher grade.

It takes me about IRL 4hrs (15 jumps with alot of scanning, Interdicted once) to arrive at Maia. Once there; I land and purchase a Meta-alloy. I check to see how much scanning was worth (2.6mil) but decide to save it for the engineer, accepting the risks of pirates. I head back to Deciat.

It takes me ~2hrs of RL time (took less time as i didn't have to scan as much and i'm getting faster). I get to Farseer finally after 6hrs, I enter atmosphere - then exit glide. I am now ~8k from landing and have tabbed over to contacts to request docking. That's when the saddest thing of my Elite career happens. I see a message "impulse attack" and then hear "module failure" after hearing 3hits. (No shield) My thruster/engine no longer is working and I crash into the planet. The attack was from another CMDR (only other contact).

With the story being explained, I really just want to know some things:
----------------------------------------
1. Why can someone fire in a no-fire zone. If they are truly hostile, why does the base not attack them?
2. What benefit does someone get for killing someone with basically nothing. My only cargo was the Meta-alloy, they didn't even scan me.
2a. I am aligned with Yuri Grom, but i was not scanned so I do not think that powerplay has anything to do with it. (^ Note they didnt even scan me)
3. Do they at least get a reward for the exploration data I had collected?/Can I go back and rescan those systems or did i literally just lose that time?
-----------------------------------
I have enjoyed most aspects of this game (except the grind, but it seems to be a short term thing) But being griefed this easily gives me concerns. Does griefing to this extent continue throughout gameplay? or is it something that only happens to new players as we are easy to kill?

If i had been pirated in space, or killed doing literally anything else (trading, mining, exploring) I would have no problem. But no, i was killed inside of a no-fire zone literally above a base that is required for me to progress in the game.

I fully support Piracy, I play in open play because I appreciate RP and PvP. But what happened to me today seems exploitative. (No-fire zone, above a base with high traffic that is required to bring things of high value for a stupid grindy quest that everyone HAS to do to get engineering access.)

I really do not know if i want to continue to play this game if griefing is as bad as i'm afraid it will be. This was a 800LY trip, I can only imagine dieing after a 10-20k trip to something like this. I did report the player in-game, but i do not expect reports to have any positive effect, except to help prevent the lose from happening to someone else. Please let me know honestly if this was a once off kind of experience, in your opinion. or if i should just play a different game.

Thank you for your time cmdrs,
~Hazzaah
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Part of that whole "you can do what you want" thing Elite has going for itself is also "you can do things other people might disagree with". Involuntary Player versus Player interaction (for people like us "griefing", for others legitimate gameplay choice) is allowed.
Why people do it? For the same reason people pick fights in a pub or tailgate you in rage when they think you did something wrong in your car - humans are weird. (translation - I don't understand how someone might find satisfaction in doing this, either)

If you're going to an area with higher density of people (CG, Maia right now, etc.) you have to be prepared that the concentration of human rubbish will also be higher. So just fit your ship for survival or switch to private mode.
 
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Madrax573

Madrax573
Looking at your story I would say you were ganked not griefed.

A gank is simply an act of overwhelming force to kill your target even though you had no way to defeat your attacker. And this is perfectly legitimate tactic.

As to why they did it... more often than not it comes down to a simple 'because they can'

Sorry not really helpful in the long run but usually true.

As for it being as bad as you think it will be... Probably not apart from in 'high value' systems and locations like engineers and CG etc.
It's one of the more fun things to learn how to defeat the gank attempt rather than worrying about how to defeat the person attacking....
 

Deleted member 115407

D
What were you flying, and why were you flying it without a shield, OP?

(Also, if you were 8k away you were on the perimeter of the no fire zone. That means your attacker was likely outside of it.)
 
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Deleted member 115407

D
Also, I'd like to add - suck it up and drive on, OP. Everybody dies, there ain't no shame in it.

Ask questions and you'll get answers, and just use things like this as a learning experience and a tool to get better.

Check this cat out. Took it on the chin, and countered by re-evaluating his build and tactics, and by becoming more aggressive.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ds-amp-Armor-are-pointless-What-about-stealth
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-in-Open-Now-I-dont-want-to-run-all-the-time-)
 
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ZeroAi

ZeroAi
Hazzaah said:
Hello Cmdrs,

(Important question at bottom)

I have been playing Elite for about 40 hours now. The last 8hrs of which i have been trying to get long range FSD from Felicia Farseer in Deciat. I arrived in Deciat to find that i needed to find some seemingly rare thing called a Meta-alloy. I was informed by other sources (EDSM) that meta alloys are sold in Maia (400LYs away). So i set off on a quest in my Hauler to Maia, deciding to take my time and scan everything on the way since i know i need to sell exploration data to Farseer in order to get a higher grade.

It takes me about IRL 4hrs (15 jumps with alot of scanning, Interdicted once) to arrive at Maia. Once there; I land and purchase a Meta-alloy. I check to see how much scanning was worth (2.6mil) but decide to save it for the engineer, accepting the risks of pirates. I head back to Deciat.

It takes me ~2hrs of RL time (took less time as i didn't have to scan as much and i'm getting faster). I get to Farseer finally after 6hrs, I enter atmosphere - then exit glide. I am now ~8k from landing and have tabbed over to contacts to request docking. That's when the saddest thing of my Elite career happens. I see a message "impulse attack" and then hear "module failure" after hearing 3hits. (No shield) My thruster/engine no longer is working and I crash into the planet. The attack was from another CMDR (only other contact).

With the story being explained, I really just want to know some things:
----------------------------------------
1. Why can someone fire in a no-fire zone. If they are truly hostile, why does the base not attack them?
2. What benefit does someone get for killing someone with basically nothing. My only cargo was the Meta-alloy, they didn't even scan me.
2a. I am aligned with Yuri Grom, but i was not scanned so I do not think that powerplay has anything to do with it. (^ Note they didnt even scan me)
3. Do they at least get a reward for the exploration data I had collected?/Can I go back and rescan those systems or did i literally just lose that time?
-----------------------------------
I have enjoyed most aspects of this game (except the grind, but it seems to be a short term thing) But being griefed this easily gives me concerns. Does griefing to this extent continue throughout gameplay? or is it something that only happens to new players as we are easy to kill?

If i had been pirated in space, or killed doing literally anything else (trading, mining, exploring) I would have no problem. But no, i was killed inside of a no-fire zone literally above a base that is required for me to progress in the game.

I fully support Piracy, I play in open play because I appreciate RP and PvP. But what happened to me today seems exploitative. (No-fire zone, above a base with high traffic that is required to bring things of high value for a stupid grindy quest that everyone HAS to do to get engineering access.)

I really do not know if i want to continue to play this game if griefing is as bad as i'm afraid it will be. This was a 800LY trip, I can only imagine dieing after a 10-20k trip to something like this. I did report the player in-game, but i do not expect reports to have any positive effect, except to help prevent the lose from happening to someone else. Please let me know honestly if this was a once off kind of experience, in your opinion. or if i should just play a different game.

Thank you for your time cmdrs,
~Hazzaah
Click to expand...

Great post.

Basically Elite has no safe zones, and prior to the coming update there were no real deterrents to PKing.

So if you randomly ran into one in Open you probably died. Or spent your time becoming an anti-greifer.

I have time for neither, so instead I play in the Mobius "PvE only" private group with 20,000 other commanders.

Madrax573 said:
As to why they did it... more often than not it comes down to a simple 'because they can'
Click to expand...


True in Elite and so many other games.

vindelanos said:
Also, I'd like to add - suck it up and drive on, OP.
Click to expand...


How about you suck it up and drive on.

If the OP wants to become a survivalist and focus on anti-ganking he can, but obviously he doesn't sound like that's what he wants to do.

Reminds me of when XBOX live first came out and kids were yelling in their mics. Some said "live with it," but the smart ones just turned everyone off by default. Problem solved.

Same when players started cracking Counterstike (before punkbuster) so they could see through walls and the like. Put the Game back on the shelf and moved on to the next one.

Life is too short to play the way someone else wants you to play.

Simply play your way and have fun.

And if random people in Open are making the game less fun, join a group like Mobius and never worry about them again :-D

Now that's moving on!


 
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Deleted member 115407

D
Greylock said:

How about you suck it up and drive on.
Click to expand...

no u

You're crapping on me for giving the OP a shot in the arm and offering him some guidance? Sorry. I'll amend my prior...

I'm sowwy, OP! Did some mean ol guy blow up your pretty spaceship! You'd better not play with those meanies any more - just turn off the game cause that was a real mean thing he did. :(
 
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Chaparral

Chaparral
FDEV gets Skinner box cookies when you complain about getting ganked. They like it. When you complain, it incentivizes the devs to create even more mechanics that facilitate no-escape snares, module maulers, and overwhelming firepower that melts you in less than 10 s with 3000+dps outfits.

Useful advice: play in pg or solo until you're geared enough and skilled enough to escape.

Also: apply to mobius pve pg and lobby for a pve server.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Greylock said:

If the OP wants to become a survivalist and focus on anti-ganking he can, but obviously he doesn't sound like that's what he wants to do.
Click to expand...

Also, I'd like to point out that "being more aggressive" doesn't necessarily mean going around looking for people to shoot. It also means being vigilant and being ready for a fight should one occur. It means that even when you're tooling around in your bubble taxi you don't have to act like a sheep.

Commander Danicus said:
FDEV gets Skinner box cookies when you complain about getting ganked. They like it. When you complain, it incentivizes the devs to create even more mechanics that facilitate no-escape snares, module maulers, and overwhelming firepower that melts you in less than 10 s with 3000+dps outfits.

Useful advice: play in pg or solo until you're geared enough and skilled enough to escape.

Also: apply to mobius pve pg and lobby for a pve server.
Click to expand...

Or just ask for some guidance on how to survive in Open, and people will be happy to give it.
 

Elethiomel Zakalwe

E
Because they enjoy it. Also, random murder is not griefing. Griefing is deliberately killing you over and over with the specific aim of ruining your game, not killing randoms "just because." If you'd rather not deal with it you're welcome to play in solo or private group. Otherwise, you must be prepared for all eventualities. The best way to do that would be to join a player group to help you learn how to defend yourself better. However, for now I will leave you with some advice: systems such as powerplay HQs, engineers, and community goals are always hotzones that you should take extra care whenever you visit; always have a high-wake system plotted (hyperspace jumps cannot be mass-locked, unlike supercruise) and do not enter unless you have a ship outfitted with decent defenses. Outside of these systems you are, more or less, safe, unless you get extraordinarily unlucky.

1. The no-fire zone is the zone around the station in which it is considered illegal to discharge your weapons. If you fire within the no-fire zone, you will receive a fine. If you attack someone who has report crimes turned on, the station will attack you. However it wouldn't really make sense for you to lose the ability to fire your weapons simply because you were within the no-fire zone. In this sense it is a 'soft' no-fire zone rather than a 'hard' no-fire zone.

2. Realistically, they don't get any benefit from pirating you either. PvP piracy is objectively worse than every other method of making money in the game. It doesn't pay. So some people just figure, in a game where there is precisely one way of interacting with things (you can shoot at them) why not just kill people?
2a. You cannot tell if you are being scanned except for kill-warrant scans. A normal scan will reveal your powerplay status with no notification to you.

3. They are, unfortunately lost. You can rescan those systems, of course.

If you dislike random killing but approve of piracy then I'm sure you'll blame who you want, but realistically who you should blame is Frontier for not implementing any structure for PvP to make it viable as a career - whether through powerplay, piracy, bounty hunting, or what have you. Nearly everyone I know who does this sort of thing turned to it because there's no structure to PvP anyhow, so might as well just murder-death-kill.
 
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ALGOMATIC

Banned
A
We do it from one reason only. Because we can.

Also nothing else much to do in the game for end gamers, so mining salt is a preferred activity for some ��.

My only advise is dont get upset its not personal. Its only for fun and its a game. O7.
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
A
Elethiomel Zakalwe said:
Because they enjoy it. Also, random murder is not griefing. Griefing is deliberately killing you over and over with the specific aim of ruining your game, not killing randoms "just because." If you'd rather not deal with it you're welcome to play in solo or private group. Otherwise, you must be prepared for all eventualities. The best way to do that would be to join a player group to help you learn how to defend yourself better. However, for now I will leave you with some advice: systems such as powerplay HQs, engineers, and community goals are always hotzones that you should take extra care whenever you visit; always have a high-wake system plotted (hyperspace jumps cannot be mass-locked, unlike supercruise) and do not enter unless you have a ship outfitted with decent defenses. Outside of these systems you are, more or less, safe, unless you get extraordinarily unlucky.

1. The no-fire zone is the zone around the station in which it is considered illegal to discharge your weapons. If you fire within the no-fire zone, you will receive a fine. If you attack someone who has report crimes turned on, the station will attack you. However it wouldn't really make sense for you to lose the ability to fire your weapons simply because you were within the no-fire zone. In this sense it is a 'soft' no-fire zone rather than a 'hard' no-fire zone.

2. Realistically, they don't get any benefit from pirating you either. PvP piracy is objectively worse than every other method of making money in the game. It doesn't pay. So some people just figure, in a game where there is precisely one way of interacting with things (you can shoot at them) why not just kill people?
2a. You cannot tell if you are being scanned except for kill-warrant scans. A normal scan will reveal your powerplay status with no notification to you.

3. They are, unfortunately lost. You can rescan those systems, of course.

If you dislike random killing but approve of piracy then I'm sure you'll blame who you want, but realistically who you should blame is Frontier for not implementing any structure for PvP to make it viable as a career - whether through powerplay, piracy, bounty hunting, or what have you. Nearly everyone I know who does this sort of thing turned to it because there's no structure to PvP anyhow, so might as well just murder-death-kill.
Click to expand...

This, very much this
 

BirdWisdom

BirdWisdom
Hazzaah said:
Hello Cmdrs,

(Important question at bottom)

I have been playing Elite for about 40 hours now. The last 8hrs of which i have been trying to get long range FSD from Felicia Farseer in Deciat. I arrived in Deciat to find that i needed to find some seemingly rare thing called a Meta-alloy. I was informed by other sources (EDSM) that meta alloys are sold in Maia (400LYs away). So i set off on a quest in my Hauler to Maia, deciding to take my time and scan everything on the way since i know i need to sell exploration data to Farseer in order to get a higher grade.

It takes me about IRL 4hrs (15 jumps with alot of scanning, Interdicted once) to arrive at Maia. Once there; I land and purchase a Meta-alloy. I check to see how much scanning was worth (2.6mil) but decide to save it for the engineer, accepting the risks of pirates. I head back to Deciat.

It takes me ~2hrs of RL time (took less time as i didn't have to scan as much and i'm getting faster). I get to Farseer finally after 6hrs, I enter atmosphere - then exit glide. I am now ~8k from landing and have tabbed over to contacts to request docking. That's when the saddest thing of my Elite career happens. I see a message "impulse attack" and then hear "module failure" after hearing 3hits. (No shield) My thruster/engine no longer is working and I crash into the planet. The attack was from another CMDR (only other contact).

With the story being explained, I really just want to know some things:
----------------------------------------
1. Why can someone fire in a no-fire zone. If they are truly hostile, why does the base not attack them?
2. What benefit does someone get for killing someone with basically nothing. My only cargo was the Meta-alloy, they didn't even scan me.
2a. I am aligned with Yuri Grom, but i was not scanned so I do not think that powerplay has anything to do with it. (^ Note they didnt even scan me)
3. Do they at least get a reward for the exploration data I had collected?/Can I go back and rescan those systems or did i literally just lose that time?
-----------------------------------
I have enjoyed most aspects of this game (except the grind, but it seems to be a short term thing) But being griefed this easily gives me concerns. Does griefing to this extent continue throughout gameplay? or is it something that only happens to new players as we are easy to kill?

If i had been pirated in space, or killed doing literally anything else (trading, mining, exploring) I would have no problem. But no, i was killed inside of a no-fire zone literally above a base that is required for me to progress in the game.

I fully support Piracy, I play in open play because I appreciate RP and PvP. But what happened to me today seems exploitative. (No-fire zone, above a base with high traffic that is required to bring things of high value for a stupid grindy quest that everyone HAS to do to get engineering access.)

I really do not know if i want to continue to play this game if griefing is as bad as i'm afraid it will be. This was a 800LY trip, I can only imagine dieing after a 10-20k trip to something like this. I did report the player in-game, but i do not expect reports to have any positive effect, except to help prevent the lose from happening to someone else. Please let me know honestly if this was a once off kind of experience, in your opinion. or if i should just play a different game.

Thank you for your time cmdrs,
~Hazzaah
Click to expand...


becouse sc need to play and troll in ower space games that threatings their and they got biiiiig cash 2 doing that one :)
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
1) Because they can, and that is just how some people roll on the internet. They do stuff that would get them punched in the face in real life. To avoid punches in the face, they do it online.

2) Because its a game of one upmanship. Devs try to stop it, griefers find new ways to grief. Devs stop that, griefers find a new way. Its like a competition of ingenuity. Eventually, given enough time, the devs should be able to reduce it to a minimum, and the grifers then simply move onto the next game were they can grief.

I mean, never believe a griefer when they tell you the only reason they grief in a game is because the game allows it, or because they are protesting something the devs did or said, or whatever. Their main reason is always that they enjoy it. Pure and simple. They enjoy it. Anything else is just an excuse they use to justify why they do it.
 
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